vinazzurro

Hi everybody,

My '06 RSX-S lease is up in about a year, and I'm looking at my options for a used, sporty car in the $15K-$17K range.

To that end, I've been reading up on the RX-8 for about a week (here and elsewhere), and I've learned about the pros/cons of the car, and I'm still on the fence (which is OK, because I have a year to think about it).

I think that the deciding factor is going to be how the car feels/drives in everyday driving conditions, and since I've never driven one before, it's kind of an X-factor.

(Before anyone suggests it, I don't want to go into a dealership and test drive a new one, because 1. I don't want to deal with salesmen when I have no intention of buying new, and 2. I've heard that rotary cars with miles on them feel different... and possibly better/faster than new ones.)

Here are my two main concerns concerning everyday driving. I would really appreciate some input!

1) How is it from a dead stop? I don't race (on the street or on the track), but I do like to / need to do some spirited merging from time to time. Can I expect wheelspin when getting off the line, or does the RWD traction save you from that? My RSX-S is terrible in this regard. It makes me wish I still had my WRX. I want to be able to grip and go without drama.

2) How is it around town? Is it one of these cars that needs to be in the upper RPMs before it feels fast? I'm not looking for a rocket ship, but it would be nice to get up to the speed limit quickly without redlining every time. The RSX-S is a pain in the neck here too, because it really doesn't wake up until 5-6K RPMs. Meanwhile, my WRX came alive around 2500 RPMs. Given the lack of a turbo or VTEC, I can expect a linear powerband, with no crazy, rapid onset of power, right?

Thanks in advance.

Raptor75

1 & 2: the car is quick but has little torque, you need to keep it above 4K to 5K to get it moving.

JRichter

Welcome.

1. Tires make all the difference but traction off the line is good unless your doing anything above 3-4k rpm clutch drops which isn't good for the drivetrain to begin with. You can get the TCS/DSC (Traction Control System/Dynamic Stability Control) which will ensure no wheel spin (unless ice/snow/grease) if you are really worried. If you want performance stats see the Road and Track road test attachment. Any RWD car will have better traction off the line then a FWD car as the weight is shifted to the back giving the most traction to the drive wheels.

2. Yes, this is an upper rev-range car. You don't reach full power (in the MT) until your above at least 6250rpm if I'm not mistaken. This is when the third intake port for each rotor opens up. You will want to redline (or come close to it) every shift to get the best performance but you certainly don't have to to get around swiftly in everyday traffic. Revving high in this car doesn't hurt it one bit and you are actually encouraged to do it every once-in-awhile in a rotary engined car. You will actually come to enjoy revving high in this car and I don't see why you would tire of it. If this bothered you in the RSX then it might bother you in the RX-8 as well. Don't expect much low-end grunt at all. This is characteristic of a normally aspirated rotary engine.

You really need to test drive one to get the best idea...

delhi

Hey Raptor. I am beginning to think you rx-8 (if you own one) has engine issues or unless the issues lies b/t the driver' seat and the steering wheel. My other car is a stage II 92x and I feel my rx-8 is more than adequate as a DD. In fact I never really had to keep it on the broil while driving around. I would recommend you go have a compression test done on your car.... or unless you are just regurgitating stuff from elsewhere?
OP: The 8 is considered one of the best sports coupe of this era. Fun to drive like an S2k while maintaining daily civility like a 3-series sedan. It doesn't get any better if you are a car enthusiast. But it has its flaws like any product. Careful research will yield much happiness.

vinazzurro

Thanks for the replies thus far.

Don't worry - no clutch drops for me.

As for revving to red line, I do so every so often in the RSX, but the RSX is not a quiet car (not that I want it to be) with the exhaust they put on the '05s and up, and it draws attention because it really starts to wail at above 5K. The lack of a low-end is disconcerting, but as long as it's enough to out pace a soccer mom to 40, it's OK.

The bigger deal is the traction from a stop, because merging in North Jersey is honestly crazy during rush hour, and I don't want to peel out every time I do it.


Edit: And I saw that Cobb is developing an AccessPort for this car, which could really change things. I had a Cobb AccessPort for my WRX (which I know is a different animal, being turbo and all), but I LOVED it. Cobb makes a good product, and even if they don't increase HP, they'll probably be able to do good things for the RX-8's powerband. I trust those guys.

lshu

Regarding 1 & 2, I think the power band will be similar to that of the rsx-s. There is sufficient torque in the RX-8 to get it off the line, but it's not like a wrx in its "grip and go". The power band is very linear.

That being said, I feel the there is LOTS of X-factor in this car. From the smooth feel and sound of the engine, the perfectly weighted Porsche-like steering, the great brakes, the comfortable and stylish interior, it's going to make you feel gooood while driving.

23109VC

i've driven an RSX-S. I've driven an RX8. I have driven turbo cars - not a WRX, but cars with similar power bands.

the RX8 is like the RSX. it is weak off the line, and you have to rev it up to get going. it will not have that low down torque/grunt you get from a WRX.

in terms of fun factor, there are VERY few cars that are even close to the rX8. you have to drive it to know what I mean. super fun.

TopGear8

iTrader: (3)

You will love the RX8. And if you don't then...your weird.

vinazzurro

The thing that confuses me is, people are saying the powerband is similar to that of the RSX-S, but then people talk about how smooth the rotary is.

I'd call the RSX-S's powerband peaky (for lack of a better word), and if the RX-8 is like that, I don't see how it's smooth.

By the way, I just watched some videos, and these cars sound good stock!

bose

iTrader: (5)

not similar as in when you hit powerband in the rsx you get a bit of a kick in the pants, similar in that there is more power availble in the upper rpm range. The power delivery is smooth in the 8 and you feel it pull stronger in the upper rpm but it doesn't all the sudden pounce on you when you hit XXXX rpms

chancejat

iTrader: (2)

yeah the power get isncreasingly higher with more rpm.......theres no vtec like kick....thats why some people say the rx8 doesnt feel as fast as some cars.....the power just kind of sneeks up on you.....

ken-x8

It's fine off the line for regular driving. Comes alive - as far as normal traffic scooting goes - above 3000 rpm. Real power at higher revs, but for fast merging into highway traffic you don't really need to get above 6k or 7k. 9k in third is about 90 mph.

Traction control will keep you from spinning the tires. Clutch and drivability are very smooth.

You have to drive one. If you hate salesmen, then be happy to waste one's time. A new one will drive the same as a used one, unless the used one has been abused.

Ken

vinazzurro

OK, so then you're all saying that the onset of the power is smoother.
That could be a good thing, as long as the power comes on reasonably quickly. Edit: ken, if it builds starting at 3K, I can live with that... and yeah, I HAVE to drive one of these things.


Let me ask you guys this (and this will give me a good idea of what to expect):
Let's say you rev to ~2K or ~3K RPM and quickly slip (*not* drop) the clutch. What happens? Any wheelspin, or does the car just take off?


Thanks again for the replies. First hand experiences are key.

chancejat

iTrader: (2)

pretty much just takes off.....no real spin unless you launch at higher rpm's

Soapflake

Its not too early to test drive one. Hopefully you get a chacne to test drive it alone so that you can get a feel for the engine and draw your own conclusions.

Mobile

vinazzurro:

This is a planted car with a much different feel to your RSX. You are not going to have grip issues off the line, or in a corner. No understeer here. The power delivery of this car is very similar to that of a sportbike - that is to say extremely smooth, free reving, and nothing like a car piston engine. While its true the RX8 makes peak power at higher RPM, it makes max torque at 5500RPM - a very respectable number as this car eats up 5500 like its nothing. The car is geared to take advantage of it's love-to-rev nature - 3rd gear is especially nice as it has a usable breadth of almost 100kph and is definitely the most rewarding gear to drive around town in. Even top gear on the highway keeps you up in the rev range.

When you rev your RSX, you feel as though your "working" the engine - its not especially satisfying to have to rev to make power - and the jerk felt as vtec kicks in is not especially pleasant (IMO). When you rev the RX8 you don't feel like your working the engine - it will wiz along at 5500rpm like it was 3000 on your RSX, except you have the feeling of tight smooooth readily available power - allowing for nice drives out of corners, and a solid punch for lane changes and overtaking.

The burst up to the upper rev range is extremely satisfying - like the difference between listening to a good stereo loud vs a cheap one. The feeling that the car is doing exactly what it should be doing when reving is a very rewarding experience. The trip to max hp at 8500rpm is a lot more fun then that of your RSX. Throw out any notions of piston engine specs dictating driving experience - this is a 1.3 litre engine - paper comparisons don't compute.

Another benefit of the rotary is the small engine size allowed Mazda to balance the car extremely well - the engine is mounted low and and towards the driver giving the car neutral, planted characteristics. There is no front heavy engine to mess up the handling - thereby upping the level of engineering and money required to get a car to handle anything close to this good. This car is easy to drive fast with the combination of balance and low center of gravity exuding the driver with a level of control and confidence that is hard to match. Combine this with the smooth linear power of the rotary and you've got yourself one fine automobile - perfectly suited to every-day driving with back seats and a usable trunk to boot.

From the sounds of your posts, you fit the description of an RX8 driver - go drive one and I'm sure the case will be closed. Keep in mind there is a bit of a learning curve to take full advantage of the rotary characteristics. If you have ridden a sportbike you will understand the difference in mindset.

Haze

It is quick enough to beat a soccer mom off the line even with less than stellar low end torque. The thing that it does that I hate is that the lack of torque makes hill starts a little stunted, and you have to rev a little more than most cars while letting the clutch out to get going. On a flat it goes just fine.

As a daily driver, the car exceeded my expectations by a mile. The steering has to be driven to be believed, and the stock suspension is very compliant while handling well. The stock suspension on my '04, and this may have been addressed is later cars, had wheel hop under hard acceleration from a dead stop so I replaced the shocks and that cured it for me while still giving a pretty compliant ride.

The other great thing is that the car is very quiet and poised in highway driving, which I did not expect. It is wonderful on the highway. All in all, it is one of the best all around cars that I have ever driven. I really dig it. Has a fabulous cruise control too.

It is a lot more car than I was expecting when I bought it, and I had pretty high expectations having pre-ordered without test driving one. (I bought it before they were imported.) Definitely give it a shot when it comes time to buy!

RX8-Frontier

I use mine as a DD in bad weather (I usually ride a motorcycle), and a fun-weekend car. It actually does extremely well for commutes, and in traffic it has plenty of get-up.

While it doesn't have blistering torque down low, you really only notice that at a standing start, b/c as soon as you start moving, you're up in its powerband, and good to go. There are NO VIBRATIONS WHATSOEVER from this engine, so very seriously, if you feel the need to drive around at 60 mph in 2nd gear, it will be just as smooth if you were driving at 15 mph. The engine is VERY nice in the city, because basically, with the 9k redline, you literally can leave it in 2nd around town and never have to shift if you don't feel the need.

lshu

One more thing about the "smooth" power dilevery of the rotary not mentioned yet. The amount of vibration in the rotary engine at high rpms is MUCH less than that of any piston engine. It's kind of a strange feeling. You push it up to 7K and hold it there, and all of a sudden the engine falls quiet, while having little to no vibration at all. As Jeremy Clarkson puts it, "it feels like it's running on double creme". Then you punch it some more and the rotary scream sharply returns. At these rpms the S2000 would be constantly howling and vibrating like mad. Try it at the test drive (if the salesman lets you, haha)

EDIT: ^ gah, beat me to it :|

quantum

I've already had my 8 on the Long Island Expressway and had no problems, including ramp merging and weaving.

TheWulf

iTrader: (4)

At highway speeds it flies... just downshift 'till your rpms are high enough. Under 35 in 1st it's still decent -- enough to overtake the soccer moms off the line

vinazzurro

OK. This is getting more encouraging.

I guess I'll go test drive after work one day this week, when I'm still dressed business casual... That way maybe the sales guy will see me as a responsible adult who can test drive alone.

If the sales guy wants to come along, I'll politely ask if I can bring the RPMs up a bit, and if he says no, I'll just test drive elsewhere. (Because honestly, if he wants me to keep it below 3K or something ridiculous like that, what's the point?)

I forget which one of you guys pointed it out, but no, the VTEC changeover in an RSX-S is *not* pleasant, and it is more or less over-hyped. (People who think it's a big deal apparently haven't driven a car with forced induction.) Anyway, the crazy noise and commotion of bringing the RSX-S revs up to where the power hides is actually what keeps me from driving my RSX-S the way it's meant to be driven. Maybe with the RX-8, I can blast up to 7K and not cringe.

[On a side note, I'd flooring it in my WRX never made me cringe... it made me smile. A flat-four has a unique rumble, and it actually sounded good, unlike the RSX, which sounds like a cross between an F1 car (good) and an Oster blender (bad).]

Thanks again, everybody.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

The 8 will keep up with a 350Z off the line to about 45, youtube it. Other than that the RX8 is a drivers car and its handling is its biggest attribute. If you want a land rocket, start researching forced induction

Raptor75

It had to happen sometime.

The low torque of the RX-8 means you need to keep it above 4Kto5K to keep it moving quickly. Almost all the major trade mags have also made this observation. Nothing wrong with this, just the way the car is.

delhi

^ The smooth rotary engine coupled with a sweet gearbox makes getting it to the redline pure joy. Lazy drivers need not apply.

Head to the nearest VW shop and pick up a Jetta TDi. Loads of torque and great on mileage.