Chris4401

Very similar to my proble excet never any CEL or codes. When this occurred, the car wouldn't idle, it would die out at a stop and would barely accelerate to 3500 RPM and then rattle if you tried to go any faster.

Chris

swoope

iTrader: (5)

yep same exact symptom here.
no cel. shut off and called dealer. drove it to dealer it was fine.

they changed gas reset kamm. has run fine since. did you notice a drop in fuel mileage right before it happened?????

where in sw fla are you. what dealer.

beers

Chris4401

Its my wife's car so I'm not sure about the gas mileage. I live in the Sarasota area, Ed Howard Mazda.

Rick

^ I am surprised they are taking so long to install your engine. My wife drove our 8 till the day it went in for a new engine(3 days ago) and picked it up the next day. However, I had to take it back the day after because of a loose oil & coolant plug on the block. Be sure and have them test drive your car before you drive it home.
I asked the tech why this new engine won't carbon up. He said that the new ecu reprpgram should keep it from carboning up. I then asked him why my old engine carboned up after the reprogram and the decarb. He said that there was still a bit if carbon on the rotors and it acted as a sponge for more carbon. Also, after the first decarb of the old engine the tech told me Mazda recommends to use 87 octane. After the new engine install, I asked him if i should still use 87 and mazda told him this time that I need to run a minimun of 91 octane.

swiftnet

Ed Howard Mazda mounted my rear wheels backwards... I understand mistakes but when I called them on it they were saying "I can't see how that happened" and "Did you happen to take it anywhere else for tire repair".
That is BS, they way it happened is the tech didn't notice the 2" arrows pointing the wrong way... what I'm getting at is, if the techs can't get tires on correctly, I wouldn't have much confidence in getting a motor repaired....
I'm going to try Palm Mazda in Punta Gorda for my next service, hopefully they will admit it when they screw up...

The lemon law worked for my wife's mustang. The paint was bubbling on the door, they repainted the door but it didn't match. They gave us a new car, we just had to pay for the mileage (which is fair).

Good luck,

Alex

ASH8

WOW, In Oz 91 is the min octane, with 95 the recommended, no wonder you guys are having performance/pinging/grinding issues not to mention excess carbon build up, some owners here have done over 65,000 kms with no carbon or pinging/performance problems on what we call Premiun Unleaded PULP (95-98 Octane)...for a little extra cents the high octane gas is the GO.

Gomez

Different octane, ASH.

Gomez

We use RON....they dont.

ASH8

Chris, I have just read that MAZDA NAO or Dealers are recommending the use of 87 octane gas for the RX-8. No wonder many are having pinging/grinding and performance problems with fouled spark plugs and carboned motors.

Reminds me of the same problems I had a Mazda in the 70s and 80s with the then Standard grade gas(lead) (86 octane), you could guarantee that once the car had reached about 10,000 miles it would rattle and ping its head off at RPM above about 5000, these old RX-2/3 and 4s had dino engine management, no computers, points, etc. Just a ton of carbon build up. So its nothing new, just use the higher octane that will burn better, forget all the so called experts here that warn of other issues related to high octane gas. As far as I am concerned LOWER octane gas is POISON for rotaries when used in domestic vehicles. Rotaries don't have large HP gains with higher octain fuels like you can get with piston engines, but, you avoid the engine rattling and pinging when you use the higher octane.
I am refering to (normal driving) use of your car.

In Australia a MINIMUM of 91 Octane, also with PULP Premium of 95, anything below 90 you will get engine pinging and rattling at higher RPM.

As I said we have owners here with 65,000 KM or 38,000 miles with no engine problems and they use PULP or 95 Octane.

Worth a try mate when you get the new motor.

ASH8

Regardless, Rick said he was advised to use a 91 NOT 87..^^^

Which is a higher octane rating, which is the POINT I am making you Shifty Bastard Go and learn how to play AFL football again by moving west or north

Gomez

Correct.

Incorrect.

Chris4401

Got the car back last night. Service Manager wasn't there so all I had to deal with was the service writer. Car was filthy dirty with oil stains on the fenders and door. Writer says that "Ed Howard Mazda doesn't do courtesy washing of cars in for service". Trying to remain composed, I explained to him that I brought in a clean car and expected to get it back that way. And the oil stain removal is NOT a courtesy. He tells me I can bring the car back on Monday to have it cleaned but there is no one there to wash the car - but he can "hose it off".

Asked to speak with a Manager and he comes back out and asks me
"What's my problem". It was best for me to just leave at that point. Get in the car and to top it all off, there is no fuel in the car (light is on). It was 3/4 full when we brought it in. Probably should have left it there...............

Car idles like crap. Shakes and vibrates. Inside of enging compartment is dirty - sandy dust on the black plactic intake "manifold". Now I'm wondering what they did to the car - how can this be dirty if the motor was replaced ????????? Oily film all over the back of the motor and a strong oil / antifreeze smell. I guess that would be a courtesy cleaning also.

Runs OK. Shifts smoother. Only 35 miles so its far too early to tell.

The car will be going to see Mr. Ed Howard on Monday to get his opinion on his Mazda dealership's customer service. Just had tires put on there about a month ago. Maybe I need to look at the directional arrows too.................

ASH8

Octane ratings measure a fuels ability to resist engine knocking, the rattling/pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel/air mixture in internally combustible engines, more so in a rotaries higher end RPM.

Higher Octane fuels burn more progressively rather than explosively. A higher octane fuel can be compressed more without detonating, then ignited earlier to reach full burn intensity..... burning progressively and leaving less carbon build up.

A lower octane fuel will tend to bang once the spark plugs ignite, with the rattley/pinging sound.

Generally, the more carbon build up you have in a motor the higher the compression ratio becomes because the carbon deposits on the rotors reduces the compressed area increasing the rotaries compression ratio, with that come the need for a higher octane fuel to maintain the engines ability to preform.

In Australia our fuel is RON (Research Octane Number) usual between 92 and 98. In the US your regular is I think 87 with premium of 93.Your grading protocols are different and our numbers here may be higher as a reference, but the principals in using higher octanes STILL remains the same.

RON is Australia's measure of the petrol's ability to stop engine knocking, for memory extra manganese and potassium is added to achieve a higher octane rating, where in the 50s, 60s, 70s to mid 80s lead was the bad enemy. We all know why that was removed for cleaner air and the introduction of CATs and air pumps, and EGRs, solenoid vales, and more crap. That's progress.

So, if you are experiencing pinging/rattling and grinding noises at high RPM, try using a higher octane level than the one you are currently using. I suggest you also have a look at your spark plugs, I don't recommend you leave them in for the mileage that Mazda are recommending, yes the new plugs are a big improvement, but the heat and work these poor little fellas do is just enormous and for top fuel burning/performance they need to be in peak condition. I would halve the distance maintenance frequency and renew them, yes they are expensive but so to is an engine rebuild if the porcelain and or electrode centre break off in your rotor chambers.

ASH8

AS I said ^^ the principal of using a HIGHER octane fuel still remain, regardless of where you live.

The minimum octane fuel will not burn as efficiently in higher compression motors, particularly those with high carbon deposits.

Mazda in Australia says to use Premium ULP, not standard.

I think you use Premium don't you Gomez?

Perhaps rather than just a "brief" response to my posts you could take the time to offer your opinion first in more detail....where would you like me to send you my apple.

Gomez

I'm not going to get into a pissing competition with you on octane, ASH. I know all about it. BTW, your owners manual recommends 95RON as the minimum octane, not 91.

ASH8

Why do you just paste that ^ when I said we have a min 91 in fuel available in Australia and 95 is recommended, that is what I said originally so why repeat it?
Where have I said you should use 91, all I have said is not to use standard or minimum octane rated fuel. Rick was using 87 (US) which is the minimum available there.

I grew out of pissing competitions, If you know all about it, take the time to pass your knowledge on...your method here of one liners just looks a tad arrogant.

Gomez

You didn't say "available". Maybe that's what you thought you said, but you didn't. I read it as I quoted you above...."WOW, In Oz 91 is the min octane, with 95 the recommended..."

Now when you say 95 is the recommended, you are talking about the recommended fuel in the RX-8. Now, in that very same sentence, you said "91 is the min octane". That's where you went wrong.

Chris, good luck with your new motor.

ASH8

Good to see you have your 8 back Chris...
I cant take this crap from your dealer, there is NO excuse, your car should have been cleaned with no external grease marks...thats just totally slack.... I would find another Mazda Dealer.
Depending how they got the rebuild back, other original hang on parts would have been added and you always get greasy marks etc all over the motor, BUT, AFTER installation they should of de-greased the engine bay.

Mazda NAO should kick their ***. MY BLOOD would have been boiling.
Good Luck

ASH8

My apologies Gomez, it does read like you said, it was however intended to show that 91 is our min octane fuel here in OZ.

I have never recommened that an RX-8 owner use minimum 91 (Australia) or 87 (USA).
I have though said that a premium 95 (AU) be used as the owners Manual says.

Gomez

'sorright....

Aseras

Park it so it blocks the entire entrace with a sign in window that says still broken and file the lemon law stuff, or if you can find antoher dealer and STAT.

Aseras

maybe the gas where you are is diffrent but a lower octane generally burns MUCH more completely in a rotary. High octance tends to still be burning as it's exhausted. hence the common backfire with people who chuck the stock cat... it wasn't uncommon for late 70's and 80's rotary tweakers to run as low as 85 or lower for more power. One of the classic seling points of a rotary and more power from lower and cheaper octance fuels. every manufacturer adds diffrent crap to the gas to improve the burn characteristics. you can make 93 flash burn, but generaly 87 burns faster ( and better ) than 93 which gives more power in a rotary.

ASH8

That is what I said in regard to pinging to use a higher octane, and yes earlier rotaries performed well on standard gas years ago until ,carbon/pinging build up occurs, switching to a higher octain (as the owners manual says^^) will help prevent pinging.

The 8 is a little more sophisticated in the engine management area.

Engine de-carb is a help/but the only effective way of removing is a rebuild and to physically remove deposits from rotors etc.

mamccubbin

Chris,

Sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble with a car that can be so much fun. It sounds like, and this is probably obvious to you, that your dealer is providing you with horrible service. As someone who has worked in customer service before, I hate to see people treated so poorly, especially after the sale. I would look into a few things. First, seriously check out the lemon law as people have suggested. Maybe even contact whatever government office oversees it in Florida as they might be able to give you some guidance. Second, talk to another dealer if one is available to you. A smart dealer will jump at the chance to help you out and try and gain you as a future customer. The dealership that I bought my car from has been great for me, and I will always buy my cars from them in return. Third, hound Mazda like crazy until you get what you deserve.

Again, sorry you are having to work so hard on this. Best of luck and keep us informed.

zoom44

today's gasoline isnt the same as years past. todays high octane formulas in many cases burn better than the lower octane formulas. google it yourselves and you will see. i linked some articles in a previous discussion. the person who ssid they used 85 octane and had no pinging just a slight loss of performance?- the reason you have th eloss of performance is because the PCM is retarding your ignition BECAUSE IT DETECTED KNOCK/PING! switch to a higher octane.


Chris please update us when you talk to the owner today and make sure you call MNAO and get this all on record with them. they may call the dealer for you for resolution