New RX-8 in 2008.
09-15-2007 | 07:10 AM
#51
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If it is an FE1032, then it is a face lift.
If it is an FF1031, then yes it would be ALL NEW RX-8
I will go for FE1032
Who Knows!!
I think I may try an email to Mr. Dickson at MA and see if he will reply. xXx
If it is an FF1031, then yes it would be ALL NEW RX-8
I will go for FE1032
Who Knows!!
I think I may try an email to Mr. Dickson at MA and see if he will reply. xXx
09-15-2007 | 08:57 AM
#52
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From: Santiago, Dominican Republic
if mazda pulls this off its going to be a first, no spy pics, no info, no nothing.
I called my source last nigth, he still says the same, face lift 2008, new car 2010+, hes being saing the same for a year but some more conected people here had told me diferent
one thing if it is a face lift they really dont need to test prototypes on the public, most component have being tested in normal RX-8, and that its the info I have
I called my source last nigth, he still says the same, face lift 2008, new car 2010+, hes being saing the same for a year but some more conected people here had told me diferent
one thing if it is a face lift they really dont need to test prototypes on the public, most component have being tested in normal RX-8, and that its the info I have
09-15-2007 | 11:02 AM
#53
Whether it's a Kabura with or without a rotary or a new RX7, I don't care. Whatever the next rotary will be is what I want to speculate on here. I don't know anything about emissions but I'll take your word on it with regard to a 1.6. I also think a 1.6 isn't going to boost the HP sufficiently to compete in a 2010 world with more high HP cars than we've ever seen before (btw what kind of HP can a 1.6 rotary be expected to get?).
This is why, with regard to the info that Zoom44 cited in another thread, I'm going to put my money on a direct-injection rotary with Honda-type hybrid. The other possibility stated in that article that Zoom44 cited was a turbo that is electrically assisted, but I'm going to guess that Mazda will not do the turbo. The reason is because Mazda has always surprised the public, even back in the early 90's with a 1.8 L V6, the world's smallest V6, which was put into the MX3. Also, turbos and rotaries don't seem to coincide with the idea of longevity. Finally, a turbo is too obvious, and Mazda doesn't seem to do the obvious.
My hunch is that direct injection alone would increase the HP a bit AND maintain the mpg at about 22 mpg, or about the same as the present Renesis. A Honda type battery, then, would get us to or a little under the 300 HP mark while increasing low rpm torque and increasing mpg to possible 25 to 28 mpg. A 1.6 direct injection rotary with battery would get even better HP of course and I bet it could stay around 25 mpg, which would be acceptable. Could future emissions requirements be met with direct injection, Ash?
I could be completely wrong, of course, but because Mazda doesn't tend to do the obvious, I'm placing my bets on a Honda-type battery combined with a 1.3 or 1.6 rotary and direct injection.
This is why, with regard to the info that Zoom44 cited in another thread, I'm going to put my money on a direct-injection rotary with Honda-type hybrid. The other possibility stated in that article that Zoom44 cited was a turbo that is electrically assisted, but I'm going to guess that Mazda will not do the turbo. The reason is because Mazda has always surprised the public, even back in the early 90's with a 1.8 L V6, the world's smallest V6, which was put into the MX3. Also, turbos and rotaries don't seem to coincide with the idea of longevity. Finally, a turbo is too obvious, and Mazda doesn't seem to do the obvious.
My hunch is that direct injection alone would increase the HP a bit AND maintain the mpg at about 22 mpg, or about the same as the present Renesis. A Honda type battery, then, would get us to or a little under the 300 HP mark while increasing low rpm torque and increasing mpg to possible 25 to 28 mpg. A 1.6 direct injection rotary with battery would get even better HP of course and I bet it could stay around 25 mpg, which would be acceptable. Could future emissions requirements be met with direct injection, Ash?
I could be completely wrong, of course, but because Mazda doesn't tend to do the obvious, I'm placing my bets on a Honda-type battery combined with a 1.3 or 1.6 rotary and direct injection.
I very seriously doubt you will see an electric assist hybring in a rotary sports car. The systems and batteries add hundreds of pounds of weight to the car thus taking away from gas mileage when not on assist and decreasing all aspects of performance.
By putting a more powerful N/A motor in a lighter car you will increase the gas mileage and increase all aspects of performance. True a 1.6L in the current ~3000lbs RX-8 would get worse gas mileage because of all the weight it has to tote around. But if you were to cut 200lbs off the curb weight, add th eextra displacement, make it direct injection you could very easily see a jump in performance stats as well as fuel mileage and therefor Co2 emmisions. By how much is hard to say but if they make the same hp/L as the Renesis into a 1.6L package and see the benifits that DI is supposed to bring a serious 275-300 hp would be easily attainable in N/A form. Just imagine putting a 6psi blower on that after that fact!
09-15-2007 | 11:12 AM
#54
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I very seriously doubt you will see an electric assist hybring in a rotary sports car. The systems and batteries add hundreds of pounds of weight to the car thus taking away from gas mileage when not on assist and decreasing all aspects of performance.
By putting a more powerful N/A motor in a lighter car you will increase the gas mileage and increase all aspects of performance. True a 1.6L in the current ~3000lbs RX-8 would get worse gas mileage because of all the weight it has to tote around. But if you were to cut 200lbs off the curb weight, add th eextra displacement, make it direct injection you could very easily see a jump in performance stats as well as fuel mileage and therefor Co2 emmisions. By how much is hard to say but if they make the same hp/L as the Renesis into a 1.6L package and see the benifits that DI is supposed to bring a serious 275-300 hp would be easily attainable in N/A form. Just imagine putting a 6psi blower on that after that fact!
By putting a more powerful N/A motor in a lighter car you will increase the gas mileage and increase all aspects of performance. True a 1.6L in the current ~3000lbs RX-8 would get worse gas mileage because of all the weight it has to tote around. But if you were to cut 200lbs off the curb weight, add th eextra displacement, make it direct injection you could very easily see a jump in performance stats as well as fuel mileage and therefor Co2 emmisions. By how much is hard to say but if they make the same hp/L as the Renesis into a 1.6L package and see the benifits that DI is supposed to bring a serious 275-300 hp would be easily attainable in N/A form. Just imagine putting a 6psi blower on that after that fact!
09-15-2007 | 11:14 AM
#55
09-15-2007 | 04:44 PM
#58
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From: Sydney, Australia
I agree that's the key fact (if it be one) pointing towards a new shape as distinct from a freshen up. Surely someone must know if production really is to cease for that length of time...
09-15-2007 | 06:19 PM
#59
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From my experience RC is correct if it is a face lift then "spy" pics are very rarely seen, usually Mazda releases media pics and it takes off from there, usually 6-8 weeks from its release.
Gomez, also a good point if the 4 month break is accurate...very rare occurrence, what are dealers going to say to a customer if they want an RX-?.
Are Mazda Japan going to stock pile a few cars (RX-8) for that period?
Mazda may be using the 4 month production break for "other model" capacity issues, or,engineers need more "rotary" development time.
Have to say though I do not like the idea of a 4 month break.
Gomez, also a good point if the 4 month break is accurate...very rare occurrence, what are dealers going to say to a customer if they want an RX-?.
Are Mazda Japan going to stock pile a few cars (RX-8) for that period?
Mazda may be using the 4 month production break for "other model" capacity issues, or,engineers need more "rotary" development time.
Have to say though I do not like the idea of a 4 month break.
09-15-2007 | 06:46 PM
#60
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ASH8, that makes a lot of sense, I am not sure on which assembly line the RX-8 comes off of, but Mazda could be giving the capacity to the new Mazda 6.. or they will use the 4 months to produce a year or two supplies of the Mazdaspeed MX-5.
I am excited! Although I love the idea of a larger displacement 3-rotor, it probably wont happen, this could link back to the "spy shots" of the different engine posted by a member. It should be a improved version of 2-rotor. Maybe DI is doing wonders for the rotary? I believe that at least the gains in fuel econ would be greater with DI in rotaries than pistons.
________
Novana Residence Condos Pattaya
I am excited! Although I love the idea of a larger displacement 3-rotor, it probably wont happen, this could link back to the "spy shots" of the different engine posted by a member. It should be a improved version of 2-rotor. Maybe DI is doing wonders for the rotary? I believe that at least the gains in fuel econ would be greater with DI in rotaries than pistons.
________
Novana Residence Condos Pattaya
Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 02:13 PM.
09-15-2007 | 06:53 PM
#61
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From: Brisbane
From my thread in the Aussie forum:
Can now back this up. The 40th Anniversary RX-8 will be manufactured in December for Jan 2008 sales in Australia.
The next generation (not next series) RX-8 will be available in showrooms in May (April production). I've been told it will be an all new car. It's not just new bumpers and new wheels.
There is no detail at all on the tech specs. The bulletin given to dealers about this new RX-8 was released on 13th Sept 2007.
Can now back this up. The 40th Anniversary RX-8 will be manufactured in December for Jan 2008 sales in Australia.
The next generation (not next series) RX-8 will be available in showrooms in May (April production). I've been told it will be an all new car. It's not just new bumpers and new wheels.
There is no detail at all on the tech specs. The bulletin given to dealers about this new RX-8 was released on 13th Sept 2007.
The decision to stop RX8 production, albeit temporarily, is significant.
It also outstands me other Mazda dealers from around the world who read and contribute to this forum arn't saying anything about the new RX8/RX9...
09-15-2007 | 07:42 PM
#62
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Shifty Bastard.
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From: Melbourne, Australia.
It's happening....it's just that we are in the early days and there is no detail yet from Mazda.
09-15-2007 | 07:44 PM
#63
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ASH8, that makes a lot of sense, I am not sure on which assembly line the RX-8 comes off of, but Mazda could be giving the capacity to the new Mazda 6.. or they will use the 4 months to produce a year or two supplies of the Mazdaspeed MX-5.
I am excited! Although I love the idea of a larger displacement 3-rotor, it probably wont happen, this could link back to the "spy shots" of the different engine posted by a member. It should be a improved version of 2-rotor. Maybe DI is doing wonders for the rotary? I believe that at least the gains in fuel econ would be greater with DI in rotaries than pistons.
I am excited! Although I love the idea of a larger displacement 3-rotor, it probably wont happen, this could link back to the "spy shots" of the different engine posted by a member. It should be a improved version of 2-rotor. Maybe DI is doing wonders for the rotary? I believe that at least the gains in fuel econ would be greater with DI in rotaries than pistons.
Hofu Plants make the 3 and 6.
I would not be too excited, the more I think of it I believe it could be the end of the 8, and I was going to order mine early next year, so how do you think I am!
Anyway, I have just emailed the General Manager of Mazda Australia, he may call me, I do not expect an email reply. I will let you know if I hear anything.
If not I will have to put ALL my plans for an 8 upside down.
I do not want a 40th edition model...hate the wheels and badges.
09-15-2007 | 08:02 PM
#65
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Shifty Bastard.
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From: Melbourne, Australia.
09-15-2007 | 10:49 PM
#67
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From: Santiago, Dominican Republic
I am an optimist, so taking that into acount I think this are the posible esenarios:
- demand down, stop production till current stock is out
- retooling to fit renesis version 1.5 into a facelift rx-8 (hope so)
- rx-8 discontinued until new model is introduce (dont think so since the info GOMEZ has is of a temporary stop)
- demand down, stop production till current stock is out
- retooling to fit renesis version 1.5 into a facelift rx-8 (hope so)
- rx-8 discontinued until new model is introduce (dont think so since the info GOMEZ has is of a temporary stop)
Last edited by rotary crazy; 09-15-2007 at 10:51 PM.
09-15-2007 | 11:25 PM
#68
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From: Toronto, Canada
Last edited by Renesis_8; 09-11-2011 at 02:13 PM.
09-16-2007 | 02:40 AM
#69
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Maybe Mazdas awarenes of new models coming on the market such as the Mitsibishi EVO X and the Nissan 370Z , has made them pull their finger out in time and produce an new version of the RX8 so they wouldnt loose rotary customers and fill in the gap between the RX8 and RX9 for the next 3 years .
Cheers
Michael
Cheers
Michael
09-16-2007 | 04:27 AM
#70
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I very seriously doubt you will see an electric assist hybring in a rotary sports car. The systems and batteries add hundreds of pounds of weight to the car thus taking away from gas mileage when not on assist and decreasing all aspects of performance.
By putting a more powerful N/A motor in a lighter car you will increase the gas mileage and increase all aspects of performance. True a 1.6L in the current ~3000lbs RX-8 would get worse gas mileage because of all the weight it has to tote around. But if you were to cut 200lbs off the curb weight, add th eextra displacement, make it direct injection you could very easily see a jump in performance stats as well as fuel mileage and therefor Co2 emmisions. By how much is hard to say but if they make the same hp/L as the Renesis into a 1.6L package and see the benifits that DI is supposed to bring a serious 275-300 hp would be easily attainable in N/A form. Just imagine putting a 6psi blower on that after that fact!
By putting a more powerful N/A motor in a lighter car you will increase the gas mileage and increase all aspects of performance. True a 1.6L in the current ~3000lbs RX-8 would get worse gas mileage because of all the weight it has to tote around. But if you were to cut 200lbs off the curb weight, add th eextra displacement, make it direct injection you could very easily see a jump in performance stats as well as fuel mileage and therefor Co2 emmisions. By how much is hard to say but if they make the same hp/L as the Renesis into a 1.6L package and see the benifits that DI is supposed to bring a serious 275-300 hp would be easily attainable in N/A form. Just imagine putting a 6psi blower on that after that fact!
Last edited by Phil_Hendrie_is_back; 09-16-2007 at 04:30 AM.
09-16-2007 | 04:31 AM
#71
It's interesting that you also bet against a turbo. I think a turbo is too obvious of a choice for Mazda and a turbo rotary isn't consistent with long-life. I also think Mazda will combine greater displacement with direct injection, but I think those two advancements alone would only get to around 300 HP, and that might not be enough to compete in a 2010 world (by that time the 350z/G coupe will be in the high 300's and a bunch of other cars will be 400 HP). At what about AFTER 2010? They can't just keep increasing displacement because the MPG will get progressively more terrible with a rotary. That's why I think Mazda has to not only be currently thinking about 2010 but also survival for the rotary after 2010. So I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that a Honda-type hybrid will solidify the rotary's survival in the long term. It's interesting that you mention Mazda possibly cutting 200 lbs because 200-250 lbs is what the battery in the Honda Accord Hybrid (that was just axed) weighs. The Toyota hybrid system uses a heavier battery but Honda's is lighter. With a ultra-thin wafer battery from Honda, I'll bet a new rotary would come back to around 3100 lbs overall. Again, I have no insider information at all but I'm just going with my gut feeling and Mazda's history of unlikely moves. Let's see what happens but you can mark me down now for this prediction.
your points are good, but do me a favor.
read what you just wrote..
hurts my head..
beers
09-16-2007 | 04:41 AM
#72
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09-16-2007 | 04:48 AM
#73
fine, as i said your points here are good.. but look at it, it is painful to read..
not fighting.. trying to help others..
maybe try all caps next time..
beers
09-16-2007 | 06:38 AM
#74
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Maybe next time I'll type a lot of periods and sign my posts in a really cool way like "beers."