LateralSpeed

How is that more dangerous than driving around with a tank of 15 gallons of fuel that is designed to combust?

tajabaho1

fuel is much more stable than compressed air, trust me...........

LateralSpeed

First of all this is compressed air not straight compressed oxygen, there is a big difference there. I just think it can't be that volatile when there are thousands of elderly people carrying around compressed air tanks all day every day to help them live. That is nearly pure oxygen(much more oxygen than this system uses), you never hear about them blowing themselves up and many of them smoke too. Maybe i'm missing something which is definitely possible since i'm not exactly an expert on compressed air, but I just don't see why it's so dangerous compared to other forms of fuel.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

The elderly - in general - don't have 3-5,000lb chunks of steel, plastic and rubber slamming into them at anywhere from 5 to 100MPH.

rotarygod

aircar cracks me up. It isn't cleaner. How do you compress the air in the first place? With a compressor! There's your fuel use. Nice in theory but with a slight problem.

The fact that there is air in the tank isn't the dangerous part. It's the fact that it's highly compressed. If that tank were to rupture, the decompression alone would rip the car apart. It doesn't have to combust.

skrubol

iTrader: (1)

Fuel cells generate electricity from fuel. You seem to just be talking about battery powered cars.
I think today's only fuel cells that work well are hydrogen powered. If hydrogen cars do become a reality in the future, they may very well use fuel cells, as I believe fuel cells theoretically have very high efficiency. Coupled with highly efficient electronics and motors, they could be much more efficient than the 33ish percent efficiency of combustion engines. Throw in a couple batteries (or use a reversible fuel-cell,) and you can easily add regenerative braking as well.

LateralSpeed

They use a compressed air powered motor to compress the air. As I said, never needs to be refueled and doesn't need a typical internal combustion engine to compress it.

Elderly people do get in crashes, they do ride in cars and those cars do get in accidents. It's no different if their tank is in the passenger seat and they get broadsided or if it's in the trunk and they get rear ended. It still gets hit if they get in an accident. And no, I don't think the airbags will help when metal hits the tank.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

There is no shot in hell thatll get passed, I mean no more SUVs, semis?!?! wtf! Doesnt matter to me, emissions can suck my *****, Ill be enjoying my 15 mpg then anyways because Ill probably still be making payments on this thing!!

chetrickerman

yes, elderly people do get into accidents with their oxygen tanks, but have you seen the size of the of the compressed air tanks on the aircars??!! they are HUGE!!! wayyyy bigger than the oxygen tanks old folks carry around. i would say that they are wayyy more dangerous than them also

a little FYI on compressed air. Mythbusters just did a little segment, where they compressed the inside of a jet airliner to 8 psi, the equivalent to if it were at 35,000 feet. They set a small charge in the wall off, and the effect of it was WAYYY past what they expected. it was a 4'x4' charge, but it ripped off a 20 foot segment of the plane, side, roof, and all. it was amazing.

rotarygod

Now doesn't that sound a little counter productive? A compressed air powered motor? What compresses the air to it? See the issue? Nothing is free!

mac11

iTrader: (1)

the compressed air fairy! duh!

chetrickerman

yes, and that would mean that the compressed air motor is perpetual, which as we all know, nothing in this world is perpetual, yet

Razz1

Except for the harassment on the RX8 forum!

Ha ha..................

tjbourgoyne

Flex fuel is not the answer but it would force OPEC to lower prices if it could ever get off the ground in the U.S. It would be a powerful hit on OPEC countries, namely Saudi, Iran and Venezuela. They would all be shaking like French soldiers.
The mpg news is not good for the rotary but I have faith in Mazda engineers. If the consumer wants it they will build it. How long it will take however is anbody's guess.

LateralSpeed

That's the whole point i've been trying to convey to you closed minded people. It is a perpetual motion possibility. The compressor powers the cars engine which in turn refills the compressor. Do the math, it's not that hard. Yes, it's dangerous but so is driving as it stands right now. If you get in an accident that's hard enough to damage an air tank you could just as easily die from the impact than anything else.

I don't see a point to me continuing this debate, you've clearly made up your mind. It's too bad though, I don't see why someone would be so stubborn that they would ignore a viable source of energy. I'm sure people laughed when someone suggested putting the rotary into production as well, it's not exactly a traditional motor and as it stands not as efficient(gas mileage, hp/tq, reliability) as many cars on the road.

rotarygod

You are honestly saying that this compressed air motor to a tank to a compressed air motor cycle can in fact repeat indefinitely with no power loss? That is perpetual motion. It won't work!!! There is no point in continuing this argument because it doesn't work that way!!!! lol! Wow!

Here's what would happen in that closed loop cycle assuming nothing else (outside source) was acting on it. It there was it wouldn't be perpetual motion! Since it takes energy to do each and we have a closed loop system, that means no energy can be gained or lost. Unfortunately what will happen is that the engine doesn't spin and then tank stays at whatever pressure it is already at. You are saying that this closed loop cycle could actually power a car. That means power is going out yet nothing is going in. That's not going to happen. Aircar is a flawed concept that can't work like that. It isn't clean and requires power to be consumed at some point. In this case it's in the compression of the air which in turn requires some form of pollution. It doesn't matter if it comes out of the tailpipe or not. Pollution happens somewhere.

The reason other engines of other concepts and designs have worked is because they don't violate the laws of physics. None of them are perpetual motion. Neither is this. Perpetual motion is not this simple. Sorry. If you believe it is, I need to ask, how old are you?

I can't wait to hear the response to this!

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Of course the compressed air motor won't work - but a friend of a neighbor has an electric car that has a huge alternator that charges it's own batteries.....says it runs forever, and is just waiting for Exxon to buy him out......

S

mac11

iTrader: (1)

The efficiency is in the hp/displaced. Not in the raw power numbers. If there were a 302 or 350 cubic inch displacement rotary motor build you could see staggering power numbers.

The BSFC changing is what will decrease fuel consumption and a myriad of other factors all play into the fuel consumption/mile driven.

Reliability has a lot to do with operating conditions and specific materials used in production and construction more than anything else.

rotarygod

The closest thing we have to a closed loop perpetual motion cycle is the closed loop nuclear powered steam systems on submarines. These do lose energy though. The only thing that stays closed loop in these systems is water. It goes back and forth from water to steam and back and the expansion to steam spins a steam turbine which sends rotational power to the props. The nuclear reation provides the energy to convert the water to steam. A simple condenser converts it back to water after it has done it's work. At some point your fuel supply will still depleat. It has to. Granted nuclear power does this over about 20 years with the small amount they use but it still loses power. This is the most efficient thing we currently have. Obviously it has other serious side effects assosciated with using it. The air car concept can not do the same thing closed loop.

ASH8

I have not read all the posts, but, recently I viewed a story here on an Australian guy who has invented and uses an small rotary engine that runs on compressed air. He and other use it as a factory golf buggy type 2 person gofer with a small ute tray in the back.
Look, I am going on memory here but he was getting reasonable distance (hours) each day without a refill.

chetrickerman

a nuclear fusion reactor is close to perpetual energy. the only problem, is that the magnets draw more power than the plasma creates. so as soon as we find a powerful enough magnet that can hold the plasma stable, then it will be the worlds firs perpetual machine

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

sounds like theres alot of 'kinks' in the compressed air idea. Idk, I think these bugs need to be worked out before congress passes that law or whatever. I mean it sounds dangerous if it explodes!!

dillsrotary

no such thing as free energy, though I would but a high bet on Ethanal conversion from plant cell walls, just gotta find the right bacteria that can first break down the cell wall then convert the sugars to ethanal (quickly and cheaply of course). You can literally use normal grass weeds instead of corn to produce ethanal, problem is making it economically capable, the science is there though and we have the land to grow the grass crop (and actually have quite alot of "garage" crop that companies, farms, etc produce already).

rotarygod

Here you go. Straight off of their website. We "closed minded people" can at least read! Read the last sentence. There is NO perpetual motion!!!

The dual energy system

The Series 34 CATīs engines can be equipped with and run on dual energies - fossil fuels and compressed air - and incorporate a reheating mechanism (a continuous combustion system, easily controlled to minimize pollution) between the storage tank and the engine.

This mechanism allows the engine to run exclusively on fossil fuel which permits compatible autonomy on the road.

While the car is running on fossil fuel, the compressor refills the compressed air tanks.

Now if you don't want an internal combustion engine to compress the tanks again, that's no problem. You still aren't getting it free though. There is a motor that works as an alternator, compressor motor, or starter depending on it's configuration at the time. This means that although you can compress air to the tanks without a gasoline compressor, it will take electricity to do it. That isn't free. You can't regenerate the same amount so this version of the vehicle while possessing a good range, is still ultimately limited compared to the gasoline version. At some point it's battery needs a charge from outside. You either need to refill the tank from an outside soiurce or a charge from one. Here's a better diagram.

http://www.theaircar.com/station.html

dillsrotary

RG don't even bother, rather they should understand (and pass) 101 physics first.

It's the same as you can't blow into your own sail in a sailboat and expect motion forward.