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Evo failed cause they did away with the 4g63 motor and made the 4b11 and it is not as good and not as supported in the aftermarket. It is a cookie cutter car as, you can still buy a lancer. Who is going to buy an evo that weighs 3500 lbs, 36k dollars when, you can buy a DSM for almost a 1/10 of that and for about 7k dollars total and a little know how, you can make a 10 second talon, laser, eclipse or older evo and smoke just about anything on the street and have awd.... Which option do you think i did. No one likes the twin clutch auto and you can get a used gtr for the price of a new evo and have a better car. Why do you think Shep, Jacks transmissions, and a few others service gtr trans and motors now. Heck, Shep does not even do DSMs any more unless evos (not many want anymore) He does gtrs now. Subaru holds their value better as, people do not mod them as much as they do evo, they cannot take it. the boxer engine sucks (their are 3 down the street from me from time to time) since they cannot take power as easy as a 4g63, the owners keep them longer so, they hold their value better cause people are not blowing them up and not as old of a platform as the DSM cars and evo. Mitsubishi does not care about the evo and eclipse, hence their demise.
i guess you should really look at the past 3-4 yrs of Mitsubishi's Balance sheet before you comment about "why they discontiuned evo"
they made 4b11 for a reason, you think they did it just for fun? this is just what all auto manufactures are doing the past few years ----- they HAVE to meet newer, tighter emission or it's a no go.
just like everything "emission" related, u will have a harder time getting power out of it, that's just the way it is. not to mention compare to 4G63, 4B11 is fairly new, and it takes time for people to explore it's potential. How many years did 4G63 take before they got to whatever it is now ? **** I mean I know I can get silly power on FD, I fix them everyday so I'm fairly sure I know more than u about what a 7 is capable of. But hell
You can't meet ANY emission standard today with FD, at least NOT with P-Port
So what does that mean? this is why Renesis exist, to meet emission. does it suck ? no, because it did what it's supposed to do, meet emission target while having ok performance. I wouldn't call it suck, just like I wouldn't call 4B11 suck. cuz it's different.
I will say this much about mazda. Mazda has made their name in racing.... in saying that, the rx7 gave mazda more wins in scca racing than any other car before or since and was picking porsche off in the 80s. The 90s brought about the miata and racing roots as, it was light and nimble, a real drivers car just like the rx7 of the 80s was. Mazda started losing their face in the 2000s and the 8 was not helping cause it was not a true sports car (look at how lotus is doing with the evora, heavy and not lotus roots). Mazda is trying their new approach with more ebb and flow cars and, I hope it works. The 80s were proven for the 7. Now that mazda is coming back out with a roots type miata, I hope that saves them but, it was the rotary that, gave them their fame as, more mazdas race on the weekend and mazda is the second winningest maker behind porsche in scca racing, thanks to the rotary. Mazda can market the rotary in other uses to keep it alive and tweak for car use, even if low production sports car with the roots of the winningest model of the 80s and early 90s. Once again, specialty cars are on the way out except for big v8s cause people these days that have the money are the retirees that grew up in the 60s... the 70s and 80s sports cars are coming around soon. Mazday needs to take heed of this and take all that knowledge about the rotary and make something that I will buy in the coming decade. Thanks to CAFE and EPA, that may not happen.
Mazda is a small company, they NEED cars that SELLS in volume, not just "ok I got the fastest car in SCCA". Mazda is a business afterall and they are here to make money, not to win in SCCA. LEarn from Toyota.
Question for you, do you honestly think that, a charger hellcat or, zr-1, or even bugatti veyron, at full gallop, would pass emissions???? not a chance in hell. These cars rarely see that kind of use so they pass. the rotary's only flaw is oil use that it must have but, if they used 2 stroke oil, this could change for the 16x along with direct injection and better ignition. We may never know.
[/quote]
Veyron? I even tried the Vernero (yes, the Lambo that only few exist in the world), do they need to pass emission ? they don't need to, their volume is low, there are exception in emissions law.
Rotary can't meet emission because of Peripheral exhaust port, they changed it to side exhaust (which gives it slightly more time to burn) reduces emission by 50%. but Renesis is still a 13B which still has a lot of inhered fault, this is why they gotta start over and create 16x ----- is in the right direction, but without selling cars in volume (making enough money), don't expect a project car like Rotary start it's R&D
If we're honest, there are only two clear advantages to a Wankel engine over a piston engine: Size and weight. Every other advantage (high RPM, simplicity, volumetric efficiency) is offset by a disadvantage (low torque, finicky wear characteristics and oil demands, thermal inefficiency). Heck, even the size and weight aren't slam-dunks because of the beefier cooling hardware needed, all of which ends up overhanging the front axle.
It's also about where the weight is. The rotary mounts incredibly low. Having the weight down there helps a great deal. The cooling system also isn't super heavy or hangs much over the front axle though. Either way, I agree with you. The compactness, size and weight is what makes a rotary great.
Last edited by Supernaut6; 06-29-2015 at 09:55 AM.
With modern metal technology, it would be interesting to see what a, mostly, aluminum motor could do.
Mazda had this in the 80's, in the Mx-03 show car. and then to some extent in the race cars, like the 787B, which has conventional iron side housings, but with a ceramic coating over all the friction surfaces, and engine rotors that were a different alloy than the production cars.
the R26B is the frustrating one, they ran lemans, pulled it apart, measured everything and put it back together, and then it did track days and car shows until 2011, when it was torn down again to go vintage racing.
20 years between rebuilds says something, i think. its too bad the Rx8 isn't in that league.
BTW if you get a chance to do see it, do, its very good, they have it out at a track somewhere every weekend.
Originally Posted by cliffkemp
Proper gauges are self-explanatory. If people cannot read and pay attention to the gauges, they do not need to be driving.
no they aren't. real gauges move, and movement makes people paranoid. its even worse when the gauge is a number, because then people become obsessed with making the number correct ALL the time.
the TPMS is a better example, when the light comes on, people schedule a service appointment, they never think to even try to put air in the tires. they have a warning light, and just assume the car is broken
Proper gauges are self-explanatory. If people cannot read and pay attention to the gauges, they do not need to be driving. I look at mine all the time.
all i have to say is my 8 could use a rebuild soon. its starting to run a little rough but its an 04 6 speed with 180,000+ on it. but premix and hitting 9k every time i drive it and i should be able to hit 200,000. most of the people that have a lot of problems with the 8 have an auto trans, drive like little girls or dont maintain them properly. what one are you?
Other than rx-7's / rx-8's, I've only owned 1 jeep and 1 DSM '' 93 Talon TSI'' and let me tell you, yes in this era in this category '' sport compacts'' the dsm was way faster than other available cars for the price. But inside my 2yrs ownership @ DSM i had more crankwalks and top end failures than any rotaries i've owned, EVER! Even as a stock form, the 4G63T was a pain in the a$$, unless you had a ''fully built'' motor, basic boost upgrades equaled to a ''soon to fail'' engine,fuel cuts,running hot ect lol. Cant disrespect the car for what it was tho, i bought it because it was a fun,cheap,oem fast,nice looking car,but they're far from deserving any awards in most ways loll :p
Maybe you should just go sit on the design team and see how quickly you get shot down. Every aspect of every part of cars are discussed pros and cons. They don't just put **** in there to put **** in there. Whether it be legal reasons things don't make the cut or longevity issues or safety concerns. This post is just silly.
Maybe you should just go sit on the design team and see how quickly you get shot down. Every aspect of every part of cars are discussed pros and cons. They don't just put **** in there to put **** in there. Whether it be legal reasons things don't make the cut or longevity issues or safety concerns. This post is just silly.
Before the Eclipse, can you name an "known for" unreliable model from Mitsubishi ? Don't get me wrong here, the Talon\Eclipse wasn't a bad car, but even if I used to and still love the car I wouldn't ever buy one again, they were fast as hell for cheap + they were nice looking IMO, a 200hp compact with this kinda price tag was hard to beat back then but the cheap price came with the major issues we had to deal with, can't blame them, but when u say the desing team doesn't cut any corners you are wrong my friend. They will if they're asked to. Think about it, since the DSM deal died out Mitsubishi had "for a long time" barely survived out there. The alliance they had with Chrysler was probably their main revenue. How many "Bishi powered" 6G72 Caravans were sold? Intrepids? If they ask u to build a cheap turbocharged car they will just fawwking do that! You've got to be lunatic to believe a DSM isn't a good sport car with a cheap *** built Evo motor. Have u owned DSM's ? Did u slightly modded them? Never had frequent issues? Did u ever try to get over 300whp without experiencing a crankwalk? If so you're either lucky or a damn "something else I won't say" lol
Speaking of bad engineering and aluminum blocks;
Maybe the worst engine application happened in the 80's with the Cadillac HT4100 engine.
It came out when I was doing mechanic work between machinist jobs.
At the time Cadillac still had a great reputation as maybe the best luxury car.
People would say something was "The Cadillac of..." whatever.
So when emissions laws were in their infancy, and gas guzzlers were becoming harder to sell because of the recent Arab Oil Embargo and cheap, economical Japanese imports, the engineers at GM came up with the HT4100. (HT= High Technology, 0_o)
It was an aluminum block, cast iron head, (?!) 249 cu.in. 135hp V-8 that they decided to put in their +4000 lb. road barges that was replacing their almost equally bad V-8-6-4 engine,
a good idea poorly executed.
Besides being obscenely underpowered, they were notoriously unreliable and quickly became a known lemon.
Head gaskets blowing were the main culprit that would lead to engine failures.
It wasn't long, I can't remember how long, maybe just a year or two, before they realized what a colossal failure it was.
They then scrambled to put other traditional GM V-8s in them to try to tread water until they finally developed a suitable engine with the Northstar.
I bought an '86 Fleetwood Brougham with an Oldsmobile 305.
It too was underpowered, but at least it was dependable.
If I didn't use Premium gas, the valves would clatter like crazy.
It still was one of my favorite cars.
It took Cadillac years to recover from that fiasco.
Because you want the large number of shares you just bought to increase in value. Because that's why you buy shares.
Why would you buy all those shares when, you can buy back your own outstanding shares or, put that money into capital for your own company??? Ford could have done better to buy other companies stock or, invest in itself more. Ford's intent was, to buy out Mazda and incorporate the 'fun factor' that mazda has in its cars. It did not work and had to pull out. Mazda is not stupid but, they have issues by resting on Ford's motto. Ford would love to buy out Mazda! They just can't though. The crash of 08 messed all that up. Also, Ford took a loss on their shares, put into the value of the dollar from the time that Ford acquired the shares til the time they sold them. It was a significant loss, too. They work with one another to keep prices down by sharing platforms on certain vehicles. All of them do this.
i guess you should really look at the past 3-4 yrs of Mitsubishi's Balance sheet before you comment about "why they discontiuned evo"
The 4b11 had perceived upgrades for taking boost and not emissions. The 4b11 is no better in the emission department than the 4g was!! The evo is/was a specialty car. Did you not read my comment on that? It is no viper, gt500, or vette by any means and although it has a following, it can never be marked up and will never have the power of the above mentioned cars from the dealer... ever.... so it is out of the game, period.
they made 4b11 for a reason, you think they did it just for fun? this is just what all auto manufactures are doing the past few years ----- they HAVE to meet newer, tighter emission or it's a no go.
The other issue to that is the auto trans only on the MR. People still want to shift on cars like that. I was going to buy an evo IX MR but, found out the X was going to have more power so, waiting and saw the X had an auto only. Didn't buy one.
just like everything "emission" related, u will have a harder time getting power out of it, that's just the way it is. not to mention compare to 4G63, 4B11 is fairly new, and it takes time for people to explore it's potential. How many years did 4G63 take before they got to whatever it is now ? **** I mean I know I can get silly power on FD, I fix them everyday so I'm fairly sure I know more than u about what a 7 is capable of. But hell
Shep took about 10 years or so to get to 7s in the 1/4. so far, no evo can do that cause they are so heavy. This is why the 1g and 2g are so desired with the 6 bolt. It was not til the red demon that a 2 g got into the 7s. Magnus got into the 6s at over 200. The 4b11 is just another 4g with a few changes, it is still based off the 4g.
You can get sillier power on a 4g63 than an FD. I have not seen 1400 on a 2 rotor or 3 rotor for that matter. But, I do not see where you are going with that statement either. Its like you threw that out there to say you know more about the 13b rew.... Making no sense here.
You can't meet ANY emission standard today with FD, at least NOT with P-Port
I am aware of this. I never said you could. Even the 8 cannot do it with the new rules coming.
So what does that mean? this is why Renesis exist, to meet emission. does it suck ? no, because it did what it's supposed to do, meet emission target while having ok performance. I wouldn't call it suck, just like I wouldn't call 4B11 suck. cuz it's different.
It sucks that the new rules are causing the rotor to die.... not the motor itself..
Mazda is a small company, they NEED cars that SELLS in volume, not just "ok I got the fastest car in SCCA". Mazda is a business afterall and they are here to make money, not to win in SCCA. LEarn from Toyota.
Guess you did not hear the old saying, 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' did you??
When you are winning, people pay attention and want in on the fun. Why do you think porsche will never lose its name, even though VW owns them. They are the most winning company of all time. They got bought but, will never die due to their racing.
Veyron? I even tried the Vernero (yes, the Lambo that only few exist in the world), do they need to pass emission ? they don't need to, their volume is low, there are exception in emissions law.
Dude, please read what I said. Mazda could make a low production car with the rotary and not have to worry about it. Before you say anything about cost, the platform could be the miata. They could make a limited run and just sell the motor as an option. For those of you that remember, they sold cars like this at dealers with fine print that said, for off road use only. They were called hemi darts, copo camaros, and others as well. They were not street legal but, they sold even at 3x or more, the base price.
Rotary can't meet emission because of Peripheral exhaust port, they changed it to side exhaust (which gives it slightly more time to burn) reduces emission by 50%. but Renesis is still a 13B which still has a lot of inhered fault, this is why they gotta start over and create 16x ----- is in the right direction, but without selling cars in volume (making enough money), don't expect a project car like Rotary start it's R&D[/QUOTE]
Ok, to nip this one, seeing how you work on these all the time, you should know that mazda had side port exhaust in the 90s, first off. Second off NSU has papers on all kinds of sizes of rotors and motors when they had the rights. There were so many engines that never went to production in cars but, did in industry. Some were even single rotor motors. The 16x stood out due to more tq due to mechanical advantage of a longer "stroke". At low rpms, part of the issue was the overlap but, some of the issue was the spark plug holes for the leading plug. It is much larger than the trailing and, when the apex seal rides over, the hole, exhaust gases leak into the intake that is being compressed. The 16x was going to have direct injection as well. This is a big difference, too.
Another thing. The appeal of the rx cars was their ability to rev high and, the 16x would not be able to do that in production form due to more stress on the stationary gears and, the fact that everything is larger and heavier.
This is why, I would like to have seen a 15a with 3 rotors. High rev and more displacement for more tq and power but, not much bigger than a 13b, although, it would have been more expensive to build but, not by much.
With aluminum in use like it is, there are all kinds of things that can be done but, it may never be.
Mazda had this in the 80's, in the Mx-03 show car. and then to some extent in the race cars, like the 787B, which has conventional iron side housings, but with a ceramic coating over all the friction surfaces, and engine rotors that were a different alloy than the production cars.
I was talking about an all aluminum block rotary. They exist as race only motors and are very expensive. 20b versions can be made but, cost more than some luxury cars. Even racing beat has a 20b for 48k dollars.
the R26B is the frustrating one, they ran lemans, pulled it apart, measured everything and put it back together, and then it did track days and car shows until 2011, when it was torn down again to go vintage racing.
It was a good motor. That is for sure
20 years between rebuilds says something, i think. its too bad the Rx8 isn't in that league.
With premix, the renesis will last, too. Those that did from day one and did it all the time, should still have their original motors. My second motor, I started after my warranty expired and do 1 oz per gallon and motor is running very well. Last dyno put down 200 whp with basic bolt-ons.
BTW if you get a chance to do see it, do, its very good, they have it out at a track somewhere every weekend.
That is cool, I hope to.
no they aren't. real gauges move, and movement makes people paranoid. its even worse when the gauge is a number, because then people become obsessed with making the number correct ALL the time.
That may be but, car enthusiasts will take care of their cars and, I would rather have a moving gauge vs a dummy gauge. This made a difference on my race car cause, the oil pressure would not go over 55lbs when I first bought it, tore the motor apart and fixed the balance shaft elimination kit that was on the care (wrong one) and put the right one in, changed the main bearings, now, goes to 80psi at 7500 rpms as it should. Stock gauge would never have shown that. I would have spun a rod or main bearing.
the TPMS is a better example, when the light comes on, people schedule a service appointment, they never think to even try to put air in the tires. they have a warning light, and just assume the car is broken
Really. I never go to the dealer. I would be so broke if, I did. I do most of my maintenance on my cars and keep them running. My 7 could go across the country even with a pull a part motor that had unknown miles. It runs great and carbed and never is hard to start, even in winter.
Mazda could do all kinds of things, and we, the people on this forum would love them, but it's a business and they need to make money. Just the tooling change to make a new rotary, put it into the ND Miata, design the interior and packaging changes, and then market it, makes 0 sense for a low volume car and it won't do the rotary any favours. Mazda had the right idea with the 8, they needed volume to be able to cover the development of the engine and make it a competitive advantage, not make a small run of enthusiast cars nobody ever sees in real life.
all i have to say is my 8 could use a rebuild soon. its starting to run a little rough but its an 04 6 speed with 180,000+ on it. but premix and hitting 9k every time i drive it and i should be able to hit 200,000. most of the people that have a lot of problems with the 8 have an auto trans, drive like little girls or dont maintain them properly. what one are you?
Mechanically, my car is very sound. It runs very good. It is the electrical that is giving me fits.
If my car will not start, I have to pull the fuses, main fuse, disconnect the batter, then, wait 1 minute or so, put them all back in, connect battery and, it starts right up like nothing is wrong.
I asked what code is causing a no start and no one has answered on here. It gives 5 codes or more when it will not start. The ones that keep coming back are the 02 sensors up and down stream. The other 3 are on the tech threads somewhere with several hundred views and no answer.
Other than rx-7's / rx-8's, I've only owned 1 jeep and 1 DSM '' 93 Talon TSI'' and let me tell you, yes in this era in this category '' sport compacts'' the dsm was way faster than other available cars for the price. But inside my 2yrs ownership @ DSM i had more crankwalks and top end failures than any rotaries i've owned, EVER! Even as a stock form, the 4G63T was a pain in the a$$, unless you had a ''fully built'' motor, basic boost upgrades equaled to a ''soon to fail'' engine,fuel cuts,running hot ect lol. Cant disrespect the car for what it was tho, i bought it because it was a fun,cheap,oem fast,nice looking car,but they're far from deserving any awards in most ways loll :p
My DSMs have built motors except my auto. I have not had any issues with the race car, as far as reliability and it has about 1000+ pulls with no less than 350 awhp. The only thing I have done is change the main bearings cause the previous owner put the wrong BSE kit on it. It almost took out the main bearings and rod bearings. It has over 500 hp now and runs like a top. My talon has a built motor and has never let me down. Build is 15 years old now and, it is starting to have a lot of blowby but, running great and has had 325 hp the whole time with many pulls and dyno time. It has an FP green on it now and the race car has an sc61 hybrid on it. Turbo just blew though. seals went out after 6 years of hard use.
Maybe you should just go sit on the design team and see how quickly you get shot down. Every aspect of every part of cars are discussed pros and cons. They don't just put **** in there to put **** in there. Whether it be legal reasons things don't make the cut or longevity issues or safety concerns. This post is just silly.
I think youllberad was referring to the OP, not you.
If that is the case, he did not read some of my posts.
Plastic radiator top with cap on radiator. Not a good idea. I have never had a problem with my DSM with metal cap on metal radiator.... ever
There are many other things that are not needed and, some things that would have worked better buy, some of the people on here make excuses for the general public and, today's view has to do with not having to actually take care of a car as, many are very lazy.
Many on here do not remember the days of adjusting distributors. A hand full may not even know what one is. Others do not remember the days of checking your fluids once a week and sometimes every fill up..... anyone remember 'service' stations for gas stations?????
this is an opinion so any more on this, is just hot air on both parts. It is what it is.
Speaking of bad engineering and aluminum blocks;
Maybe the worst engine application happened in the 80's with the Cadillac HT4100 engine.
It came out when I was doing mechanic work between machinist jobs.
At the time Cadillac still had a great reputation as maybe the best luxury car.
People would say something was "The Cadillac of..." whatever.
So when emissions laws were in their infancy, and gas guzzlers were becoming harder to sell because of the recent Arab Oil Embargo and cheap, economical Japanese imports, the engineers at GM came up with the HT4100. (HT= High Technology, 0_o)
It was an aluminum block, cast iron head, (?!) 249 cu.in. 135hp V-8 that they decided to put in their +4000 lb. road barges that was replacing their almost equally bad V-8-6-4 engine,
a good idea poorly executed.
Besides being obscenely underpowered, they were notoriously unreliable and quickly became a known lemon.
Head gaskets blowing were the main culprit that would lead to engine failures.
It wasn't long, I can't remember how long, maybe just a year or two, before they realized what a colossal failure it was.
They then scrambled to put other traditional GM V-8s in them to try to tread water until they finally developed a suitable engine with the Northstar.
I bought an '86 Fleetwood Brougham with an Oldsmobile 305.
It too was underpowered, but at least it was dependable.
If I didn't use Premium gas, the valves would clatter like crazy.
It still was one of my favorite cars.
It took Cadillac years to recover from that fiasco.
This is why I posted this thread.... the 8 was a great idea at a so so time. Due to things that people take for granted and the little issues (some major and under warranty) the 8 got a bad name and fell off on sales and never recovered. When the s2 came, it was too late. Whether an all aluminum block will work better/worse or anything rotary related will be a guess. It is too late to save the 8 and mazda new this and let it go. Whether it will come back as RX-whatever, will be anyone's guess.
Mazda could do all kinds of things, and we, the people on this forum would love them, but it's a business and they need to make money. Just the tooling change to make a new rotary, put it into the ND Miata, design the interior and packaging changes, and then market it, makes 0 sense for a low volume car and it won't do the rotary any favours. Mazda had the right idea with the 8, they needed volume to be able to cover the development of the engine and make it a competitive advantage, not make a small run of enthusiast cars nobody ever sees in real life.
DSM's are some people's answer but not all.
Putting a rotary in the miata as an option is not a bad idea as, it will go right in as they shared the same platform, then. Now it would not since they redid the miata. They could have a run of 1000 or 2000 and mark them up to recover any cost that was extra. The miata is going to sell, regardless so, the volume is there. It is just like the 60s and 70s. Offer it with the fine print that says it is sold as is. People will buy it. How do you think the hemi dart became so wanted. I had a 69 dart with a 225 slant 6. Great car but, with a hemi, for racing purposes, it was unstoppable from the dealer. Mr. Norm did well with it.
It really comes down to the rotary not having enough R&D due to not being around long enough. Everyone has an opinion on this and say whatever you want to.
I just ask that, people be constructive and not rude and dwell on a personal point of view that becomes rude. Use common sense.
The rotary is not for everyone and, people that make excuses for not doing maintenance on their cars cause it is not a piston engine, does not need to own one of these cars.
The rotary lasts so much longer if you do not let it overheat, premix, and keep maintenance on it. If it were a premix only car, you could run better oil, too. I wish I had just premixed both from day one. My motor would not have worn out in the 8 at 70k miles, in my opinion. My 7 does not have the pump hooked up so, I have to premix it and it is doing very well. I love these cars for what they are.
My DSMs serve another purpose that, I, currently cannot get from my rotaries. It is what it is.
Before the Eclipse, can you name an "known for" unreliable model from Mitsubishi ? Don't get me wrong here, the Talon\Eclipse wasn't a bad car, but even if I used to and still love the car I wouldn't ever buy one again, they were fast as hell for cheap + they were nice looking IMO, a 200hp compact with this kinda price tag was hard to beat back then but the cheap price came with the major issues we had to deal with, can't blame them, but when u say the desing team doesn't cut any corners you are wrong my friend. They will if they're asked to. Think about it, since the DSM deal died out Mitsubishi had "for a long time" barely survived out there. The alliance they had with Chrysler was probably their main revenue. How many "Bishi powered" 6G72 Caravans were sold? Intrepids? If they ask u to build a cheap turbocharged car they will just fawwking do that! You've got to be lunatic to believe a DSM isn't a good sport car with a cheap *** built Evo motor. Have u owned DSM's ? Did u slightly modded them? Never had frequent issues? Did u ever try to get over 300whp without experiencing a crankwalk? If so you're either lucky or a damn "something else I won't say" lol
My response was to the OP
But to answer no I've never owned a eclipse or know a single thing about them.
Last edited by youllberad; 07-04-2015 at 02:24 PM.
To each their own. The rx-8 is a wonderfully engineered car. All car has flaws. Unfortunately most of the flaws with this mazda do with the motor. At least we can enjoy the 9k revs, and bumble bee exhaust all while at least LOOKING fast. LOL
06-29-2015, 09:27 AM
seals went out after 6 years of hard use.
