Not quite what we've been waiting for...
01-19-2003 | 11:52 AM
#51
RE member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 528
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From: Aurora, CO
Re: Re: 04' WRX STI
Originally posted by Good Duck
But if you love pig that fly, then the STi got your number.
But if you love pig that fly, then the STi got your number.
Brian
01-19-2003 | 12:29 PM
#52
RX-R8ED
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 606
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From: Valrico, FL (Tampa)
does anyone have any comments on the 04' wrx sti?
If you are going to race then worry about splitting seconds and MPH, if not then style, looks, and performance declare the RX8 the winner...IMHO
01-20-2003 | 04:53 PM
#54
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by T-von
[B]
I think you are forgetting that the Z runs at the track right with all the s2k's and the boxter s's. The Z is by no means a tank, and the 8 isn't even out yet. Who knows if the 8 will handle better than the Z? I don't mind; i not one of those "my car is better than yours, na, na, na, na" people". But i think it's premature for you to say that the 8 will handle better than the Z when the Z is an excellent handeler and the 8 doesnt even have a for-sure curb weight yet. I'm not pointing fingers here; i like both cars. But you just made youself sound pretty bad with your last post.
if anyone wants to read more of my opinion. please read Jerome81's post, as he said pretty much everything that was on my mind.
[B]
Originally posted by Hercules
I have to laugh at the comment that the Z will romp the 8 on the track... it's just sad you believe that.
Hey Herc I'm with you. It's funny how performance wise the current 350z is no match for a stock 93-95 3rd gen Rx7 (or a 99-02 version for that matter) but yet somehow the 350z is suppose to miraculously out perform the Rx8. Lets see, the Rx8 has the fondation to be the SUPREME performer. The 350Z has all of these attributes: perfect 50/50 balance, light weight, high reving rotary with a nearly flat torque curve. "Oh damn I must be lossing my mind, those are the attributes of the Rx8" Ha ha ha. Any ways the only advantage the Z will have is acceleration(and we all know thats only a small segment when it comes to overall performance). Other than that the Z would be toast. As far as that statment about a magazine test goes, the Z guys better hope they dont compare the two at the track because, I would hate to see the 350Z tuck it's tall in between its legs and take it's *** to the house in humilitation!
I have to laugh at the comment that the Z will romp the 8 on the track... it's just sad you believe that.
Hey Herc I'm with you. It's funny how performance wise the current 350z is no match for a stock 93-95 3rd gen Rx7 (or a 99-02 version for that matter) but yet somehow the 350z is suppose to miraculously out perform the Rx8. Lets see, the Rx8 has the fondation to be the SUPREME performer. The 350Z has all of these attributes: perfect 50/50 balance, light weight, high reving rotary with a nearly flat torque curve. "Oh damn I must be lossing my mind, those are the attributes of the Rx8" Ha ha ha. Any ways the only advantage the Z will have is acceleration(and we all know thats only a small segment when it comes to overall performance). Other than that the Z would be toast. As far as that statment about a magazine test goes, the Z guys better hope they dont compare the two at the track because, I would hate to see the 350Z tuck it's tall in between its legs and take it's *** to the house in humilitation!
if anyone wants to read more of my opinion. please read Jerome81's post, as he said pretty much everything that was on my mind.
01-20-2003 | 06:07 PM
#55
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Z? 8? or s2k?
for those of you who kept on bashing the Z, have you ever driven one? all you saying is it's fat and heavy, but that doesn't mean it can't handle with the best of them. if you read some mags and reviews (if you never driven one), 350Z has very good handling, power, and over all performance for the money. it's the best car for the money in it's class. in many tests and reviews shown that it can run with the top dogs like Boxters, S2ks, and others.
i have nothing against the 8, it's a good looking car and "should" have very good performance. however, dont make "assumptions" such as "it will outhandle anything" and all that crap when you dont even know the exact weight and power of the car.
finally, like many have said, if the 8 is more than 3000lbs, then it prob wont perform as well as we all think with the "provisional" power given by miata. and one thing i dont understand is that if you want a light lil car with good power/performance and great handling, why not get a S2K (it has only 2810 lb) ? it's one of the best (if not the best) handling cars on the market. i would think RX8 at best will be similar to a S2k with a 8500 to 9000 red line, and small tourq High reving.
p.s. now, only time will tell what's best for the money. but if i have to pick one rightnow, my vote will go to the Z!!!
i have nothing against the 8, it's a good looking car and "should" have very good performance. however, dont make "assumptions" such as "it will outhandle anything" and all that crap when you dont even know the exact weight and power of the car.
finally, like many have said, if the 8 is more than 3000lbs, then it prob wont perform as well as we all think with the "provisional" power given by miata. and one thing i dont understand is that if you want a light lil car with good power/performance and great handling, why not get a S2K (it has only 2810 lb) ? it's one of the best (if not the best) handling cars on the market. i would think RX8 at best will be similar to a S2k with a 8500 to 9000 red line, and small tourq High reving.
p.s. now, only time will tell what's best for the money. but if i have to pick one rightnow, my vote will go to the Z!!!
01-20-2003 | 07:17 PM
#56
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Then go to the 350Z message boards. This board is for the RX-8.
First of all, I *have* driven a 350Z (my friend is a Nissan dealer and is quite taken with the car, so I got to toy around with it for a bit). And if you compare the 350Z to say... a Miata as per handling, I'd take the Miata. The front nose dips on turns (ala the severe programmed in understeer), too much gas on exit corner *will* spin you out. However I will say that without DSC there's no fault of the driver (partially but) in that spinout, but moreso in the car as there isn't technology that allows for people to control it more easily.
The interior is not great, brittle plastics thruout EXCEPT the seats... damn I love them
The reason MOST of us want the RX-8 is because it blends the practicality of a sedan with the handling of a Boxster, Miata, or S2000.
If you want the power with 'okay' handling, the 350Z is great. If you want the power and the handling, you get the Boxster. If you want so-so power with great handling you get a S2000 or Miata.
And for all the choices that don't fit, you get the RX-8.
While the 350Z may be at the top of your list, it's not at the top of ours because it is missing TWO KEY ELEMENTS that would prevent most of us from getting it. That, and Nissan's got a nose-heavy car with a lot of understeer and as per most reports on the RX-8.. it doesn't suffer from the same woes.
To each his own, I'll take the RX-8 and enjoy it just as the next guy may take the 350Z. It's your money and you're entitled to do whatever you like -- but your comments show you know little about the 8. You equate power and handling as if they were equally important. They are both important, but some people love the handling moreso than power (which is why some get automatics in the 8), and some enjoy a good dose of power. I prefer balance of both. The 8 will give me that, the Z will not. And I'll save 3 grand, get two seats, a bigger trunk and as I should hope... a much better handling car.
The 350Z can keep its 5.4 second 0-60 time, while I am more than happy with my 6 seconds.
First of all, I *have* driven a 350Z (my friend is a Nissan dealer and is quite taken with the car, so I got to toy around with it for a bit). And if you compare the 350Z to say... a Miata as per handling, I'd take the Miata. The front nose dips on turns (ala the severe programmed in understeer), too much gas on exit corner *will* spin you out. However I will say that without DSC there's no fault of the driver (partially but) in that spinout, but moreso in the car as there isn't technology that allows for people to control it more easily.
The interior is not great, brittle plastics thruout EXCEPT the seats... damn I love them
The reason MOST of us want the RX-8 is because it blends the practicality of a sedan with the handling of a Boxster, Miata, or S2000.
If you want the power with 'okay' handling, the 350Z is great. If you want the power and the handling, you get the Boxster. If you want so-so power with great handling you get a S2000 or Miata.
And for all the choices that don't fit, you get the RX-8.
While the 350Z may be at the top of your list, it's not at the top of ours because it is missing TWO KEY ELEMENTS that would prevent most of us from getting it. That, and Nissan's got a nose-heavy car with a lot of understeer and as per most reports on the RX-8.. it doesn't suffer from the same woes.
To each his own, I'll take the RX-8 and enjoy it just as the next guy may take the 350Z. It's your money and you're entitled to do whatever you like -- but your comments show you know little about the 8. You equate power and handling as if they were equally important. They are both important, but some people love the handling moreso than power (which is why some get automatics in the 8), and some enjoy a good dose of power. I prefer balance of both. The 8 will give me that, the Z will not. And I'll save 3 grand, get two seats, a bigger trunk and as I should hope... a much better handling car.
The 350Z can keep its 5.4 second 0-60 time, while I am more than happy with my 6 seconds.
01-20-2003 | 08:04 PM
#57
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From: So Cal
Originally posted by Hercules
Then go to the 350Z message boards. This board is for the RX-8.
First of all, I *have* driven a 350Z (my friend is a Nissan dealer and is quite taken with the car, so I got to toy around with it for a bit). And if you compare the 350Z to say... a Miata as per handling, I'd take the Miata. The front nose dips on turns (ala the severe programmed in understeer), too much gas on exit corner *will* spin you out. However I will say that without DSC there's no fault of the driver (partially but) in that spinout, but moreso in the car as there isn't technology that allows for people to control it more easily.
Then go to the 350Z message boards. This board is for the RX-8.
First of all, I *have* driven a 350Z (my friend is a Nissan dealer and is quite taken with the car, so I got to toy around with it for a bit). And if you compare the 350Z to say... a Miata as per handling, I'd take the Miata. The front nose dips on turns (ala the severe programmed in understeer), too much gas on exit corner *will* spin you out. However I will say that without DSC there's no fault of the driver (partially but) in that spinout, but moreso in the car as there isn't technology that allows for people to control it more easily.
Maybe you're saying that the lesser engine power better matches the chassis? So the turbo charged miatas that can peel out are no longer "great handling" vehicles, because throttling it through a corner can now cause spin outs?
Spinning out in corners doesn't mean lack of handling. I means lack of driver/throttle control....(aka pushing a car beyond it's limits) A miata (generally) doesn't have enough power to spin out....
To each his own, I'll take the RX-8 and enjoy it just as the next guy may take the 350Z. It's your money and you're entitled to do whatever you like -- but your comments show you know little about the 8.
01-20-2003 | 09:11 PM
#58
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Originally posted by threeputtwash
Any car will make you spin out, if you push too much through a corner. Think a Ferrari, with all the traction control turned off, won't spin out on a corner?
Maybe you're saying that the lesser engine power better matches the chassis? So the turbo charged miatas that can peel out are no longer "great handling" vehicles, because throttling it through a corner can now cause spin outs?
Spinning out in corners doesn't mean lack of handling. I means lack of driver/throttle control....(aka pushing a car beyond it's limits) A miata (generally) doesn't have enough power to spin out....
As for someone who just claimed that the rear seats of the RX-8 will feel bigger than the BMW, but having never sat in the RX-8, I don't think you're allowed to make such comments to other people.
Any car will make you spin out, if you push too much through a corner. Think a Ferrari, with all the traction control turned off, won't spin out on a corner?
Maybe you're saying that the lesser engine power better matches the chassis? So the turbo charged miatas that can peel out are no longer "great handling" vehicles, because throttling it through a corner can now cause spin outs?
Spinning out in corners doesn't mean lack of handling. I means lack of driver/throttle control....(aka pushing a car beyond it's limits) A miata (generally) doesn't have enough power to spin out....
As for someone who just claimed that the rear seats of the RX-8 will feel bigger than the BMW, but having never sat in the RX-8, I don't think you're allowed to make such comments to other people.
As per the second part, I merely mentioned the sizes of the leg room available in the 330 and other models compared to what is offered in the RX-8. I also mentioned that in the RX-8 that people's feet would fit underneath the front seats, unlike many other cars. Based on numbers, yes I did say that the comparision is good to make. Never once did I say that
the rear seats of the RX-8 will feel bigger than the BMW
I'd challenge you to find that post.
01-20-2003 | 09:17 PM
#59
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Originally posted by Hercules
To reply to the 'spinning out', I already made msyelf clear. You can do it in a Miata if you're so inclined, I just thought that when you're paying upwards of 35k for a 350Z they could throw in a stability system that prevents from kicking out the rear end, that's all. Unfortunately their stability control allows for more kickout on the tail and if that's intentional it's fine, but I think that it's a good idea with the safety control to be on, that it should actually be safe..
To reply to the 'spinning out', I already made msyelf clear. You can do it in a Miata if you're so inclined, I just thought that when you're paying upwards of 35k for a 350Z they could throw in a stability system that prevents from kicking out the rear end, that's all. Unfortunately their stability control allows for more kickout on the tail and if that's intentional it's fine, but I think that it's a good idea with the safety control to be on, that it should actually be safe..
01-20-2003 | 09:22 PM
#61
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Originally posted by TJZ
Maybe people should just learn how to drive a RWD car. Not many cars have a system prevents all chances of kickign the rear end out. But then again, why would you want that?
Maybe people should just learn how to drive a RWD car. Not many cars have a system prevents all chances of kickign the rear end out. But then again, why would you want that?
However, a DSC system should not allow a car to kick out the rear end just as a safety feature... that's why it's there. The fact the 350Z does allow for a tail kick out with the DSC on, doesn't say much is all. With it off, yea let me kick that bastard out
But if you want to have a total tail kickout car, then just keep turning it off or order the car w/o it
But the two extremes, with the understeer programmed in and then being tail happy on exit is kinda too much for me. Balance...
01-20-2003 | 09:41 PM
#63
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Originally posted by Hercules
I agree, in fact I have a lot of brushing up to do myself and I'll be taking a driving course to re-acquaint myself properly.
However, a DSC system should not allow a car to kick out the rear end just as a safety feature... that's why it's there. The fact the 350Z does allow for a tail kick out with the DSC on, doesn't say much is all. With it off, yea let me kick that bastard out
But if you want to have a total tail kickout car, then just keep turning it off or order the car w/o it But the two extremes, with the understeer programmed in and then being tail happy on exit is kinda too much for me. Balance...
I agree, in fact I have a lot of brushing up to do myself and I'll be taking a driving course to re-acquaint myself properly.
However, a DSC system should not allow a car to kick out the rear end just as a safety feature... that's why it's there. The fact the 350Z does allow for a tail kick out with the DSC on, doesn't say much is all. With it off, yea let me kick that bastard out
But if you want to have a total tail kickout car, then just keep turning it off or order the car w/o it
But the two extremes, with the understeer programmed in and then being tail happy on exit is kinda too much for me. Balance...
also a note about the Z, to get the rear of the Z to kick out with vdc turned on the driver would have to be giving it a LOT of gas (read: very intentionally).
Last edited by TJZ; 01-20-2003 at 09:47 PM.
01-20-2003 | 10:21 PM
#64
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Originally posted by TJZ
Just for example, i believe you can get the tail to kick out a little bit with a m3 with its stability on ).
also a note about the Z, to get the rear of the Z to kick out with vdc turned on the driver would have to be giving it a LOT of gas (read: very intentionally).
Just for example, i believe you can get the tail to kick out a little bit with a m3 with its stability on ).
also a note about the Z, to get the rear of the Z to kick out with vdc turned on the driver would have to be giving it a LOT of gas (read: very intentionally).
However I'll say this much, people with experience in FWDers and switching to the Z will be in for a big suprise when they gas it... which is why I'm quick to be careful and I do know how to countersteer for the tail kick, but most people aren't that familiar, and that poses a danger.. better to be safe than sorry
01-20-2003 | 10:40 PM
#66
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From: LA, CA
Why?
Originally posted by Jerome81
I too agree this thread should be closed.
I too agree this thread should be closed.
01-21-2003 | 12:48 PM
#69
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From: So Cal
Originally posted by Hercules
To reply to the 'spinning out', I already made msyelf clear. You can do it in a Miata if you're so inclined, I just thought that when you're paying upwards of 35k for a 350Z they could throw in a stability system that prevents from kicking out the rear end, that's all. Unfortunately their stability control allows for more kickout on the tail and if that's intentional it's fine, but I think that it's a good idea with the safety control to be on, that it should actually be safe.
As per the second part, I merely mentioned the sizes of the leg room available in the 330 and other models compared to what is offered in the RX-8. I also mentioned that in the RX-8 that people's feet would fit underneath the front seats, unlike many other cars. Based on numbers, yes I did say that the comparision is good to make. Never once did I say that .
I'd challenge you to find that post.
To reply to the 'spinning out', I already made msyelf clear. You can do it in a Miata if you're so inclined, I just thought that when you're paying upwards of 35k for a 350Z they could throw in a stability system that prevents from kicking out the rear end, that's all. Unfortunately their stability control allows for more kickout on the tail and if that's intentional it's fine, but I think that it's a good idea with the safety control to be on, that it should actually be safe.
As per the second part, I merely mentioned the sizes of the leg room available in the 330 and other models compared to what is offered in the RX-8. I also mentioned that in the RX-8 that people's feet would fit underneath the front seats, unlike many other cars. Based on numbers, yes I did say that the comparision is good to make. Never once did I say that .
I'd challenge you to find that post.
Originally posted by Hercules
I would like to say that this much, that the RX-8 is only smaller than the 330Ci ON PAPER. Getting into the car you'll find a big difference, because the rear passengers put their feet underneath the front seats, and the front seats are elevated for that purpose.
I would like to say that this much, that the RX-8 is only smaller than the 330Ci ON PAPER. Getting into the car you'll find a big difference, because the rear passengers put their feet underneath the front seats, and the front seats are elevated for that purpose.
BTW, You must have reallllly huge feet, because I haven't been in a car where you can't slide your feet under the front passenger's seats....Unless you mean feet and ankles...but I'm sure you don't mean that....because I sure couldn't do it when I sat in the RX-8...
To each his own fritts.. I haven't sat in the car yet so I don't know.. but if you've sat in the back of a 330Ci (COUPE!!), then the room there is VERY stuffy. I think the RX-8 will be better than that, if not similar.
01-21-2003 | 12:55 PM
#70
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I didn't say I was in one in the first quote either.
I just regurgitate what I've read on the net and what I gather from press releases. I had the pleasure though, of sitting in a 330Ci at the Philly Auto Show just on Saturday, and I was pretty happy with the space I was given in the rear seat, while my friend sat up front.
The RX-8 should be similar space-wise (even by numbers), and with a separate door to get out and in, it will be more painless to use.
I just regurgitate what I've read on the net and what I gather from press releases. I had the pleasure though, of sitting in a 330Ci at the Philly Auto Show just on Saturday, and I was pretty happy with the space I was given in the rear seat, while my friend sat up front.
The RX-8 should be similar space-wise (even by numbers), and with a separate door to get out and in, it will be more painless to use.
01-21-2003 | 01:28 PM
#71
Love to rev!
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Mississauga - Ontario
Well I was at the NAIAS and sat in both for comparison sakes. I'm 6' 190lbs, muscular build. There was more headroom in the 8. Knee room is dependant on the driver of course. Foot room is good in both, a little better in the 8 since the front seat is raised. The 8 feels more "snug" because of the center tunnel.. it kinda feels like sitting in your own bucket compartment.. not much room to move around. So in my opinion anyone over my height/weight will not be very happy back there for a long haul. Same goes for the 330 coupe.
The 8 is still a 2+2 imo.. the rear seats/space feel similar to my Prelude with the rear seats a little larger and there is more foot/knee room. And it's a lot easier to get in/get out due to the suicide doors. Make no mistake though, I would not classify/compare this to a 4 door sedan, it's somewhere in between a "typical" cramped 2+2 and a 4 door sedan. Perfect car for me since I don't like 4 doors and the extra space/easier access to the back seats is welcome.
The 8 is still a 2+2 imo.. the rear seats/space feel similar to my Prelude with the rear seats a little larger and there is more foot/knee room. And it's a lot easier to get in/get out due to the suicide doors. Make no mistake though, I would not classify/compare this to a 4 door sedan, it's somewhere in between a "typical" cramped 2+2 and a 4 door sedan. Perfect car for me since I don't like 4 doors and the extra space/easier access to the back seats is welcome.
Last edited by Quick_lude; 01-21-2003 at 01:30 PM.
01-22-2003 | 04:50 PM
#72
I believe this thread started to do with the weight of the Rx8, everyone wondering what it will come in at.
I was reading this thread at Rx7club.com and its states multiple time to be 2800- 2888 (from a Mazda Rep at NAIAS)
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=151115
Man I cant wait to check a RX 8 out at a dealership.
BTW- I dont think this thread should close. Thread like this make boards interesting. I love reading everyones opinions, and gaining knowlegde of cars/rotary engines in the process.
I was reading this thread at Rx7club.com and its states multiple time to be 2800- 2888 (from a Mazda Rep at NAIAS)
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=151115
Man I cant wait to check a RX 8 out at a dealership.
BTW- I dont think this thread should close. Thread like this make boards interesting. I love reading everyones opinions, and gaining knowlegde of cars/rotary engines in the process.
01-22-2003 | 11:14 PM
#73
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After reading all this I can just sit here and laugh. This is almost the exact same discussion that came up when the FD came out. Remember the 300ZX, 3000GT VR4, Supra all had 320hp, and the 7 had 255? The 7 was about the same in acceleration numbers and blew all away on a track. I have also seen alot of grumbling about the 350Z not dyno'ing to the proper HP, they are dyno'ing low from what I am reading. I have read an acct (probably you all have to) saying the 2000 spec 7 (280hp) ran against the 8 on a track, it was faster in the straights, but the 8 caught up everytime the twisties came along and had vurtually the same track times. If that acct was true . . . well I will just say I have seen a stock 255hp 7 run away from a 350z in a straight line! If you are really worried about a 350z running from your 8, then wait for the MazdaSpeed 300hp version of it :D But I don't think you will have much to worry about!
01-23-2003 | 01:34 AM
#74
No more parachute
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From: Lake Mary, FL
01-23-2003 | 02:22 PM
#75
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WOW I never actually saw the videos before, just read the account. It almost looks as if the 8 has to slow down in order not to run over the 7 in the corners. That is impressive considering out well the 7 performs! I know from experience that the 7 is a better handling car, and is alot faster than the 350z so judging by that if they are on a track I see no reason to worry about the 8 getting beat at all!