CPLD

Hello all! VERY LONG STORY HEAD....but I need help!

I would like to first say thanks for a great sight (long time lurker). Over the years I have been able to answer all of my questions that I have had concerning my 2004 RX-8. I love the car but I have come to a very difficult situation and would really appreciate the help.

Like I stated above I have a 2004 RX-8 grand touring series. When I bought the car, it had 37,000 miles on it and had a brand spanking new engine in it (approximately 2k miles on the actual engine). According to the salesman the owner complained about engine issues enough to have the engine replaced, but then either sold the car, or somehow made the dealer switch out the cars or something, its been 5 years since the purchase and I can not remember the story 100%. Either way the car was in perfect shape with a brand new engine ( saw the invoice) and was priced at a good deal (was 15k).

Anyways, I bought the extended warranty (just expired in Jan 2012) and have had the car serviced as recommended and taken very good care of the car. No racing, no hard driving etc etc....

The only serious work that was done to the car over the past 5 years is the engine coils ( ignition??) were replaced (last summer, along with spark plugs), and the engine mounts were replaced (within the past 2 years).

All of this work was covered by the warranty.

Now it is March 2012. I have accidentally flooded the engine twice before by not letting it heat up before shutting off, and had to do the normal foot pedal to the floor routine to un-flood it. For the third time in 5 years, I didn't wait long enough this past Friday, and I flooded the engine. No big deal right? It happens ALL the time in RX-8's, so I commence the foot pedal technique and it does not work because the battery loses its juice and is to weak for the technique to work!

Ok, so I tow it to the local dealership. We have been dealing business with this dealership for 2 years. However, during the two years, the service department has changed its employees ( all during the same month, kinda odd ) that we normally had a very good relationship with, and replaced them with service men that treat my wife and I like we are morons.

Ever since the new crew has taken over, every time we go in for anything, oil change or service, they try to sell us 1k-2k worth of repair work.......They blow so much smoke up my ***, that I think I might fly away like a hot air balloon.

Anyways back to the issue....I was told by Mazda corporate that I was covered under a special service program for the next 2 months....and that a de-carb or de-flooding of my engine would be free...when I mentioned that to the service department they told me they had no idea what I was talking about and that it would be $160 to de-flood and then another $400 to replace the spark plugs and then another $godknowshowmuch to replace the engine coils and wireing and etc etc etc etc.....it was well over $1200.....all because of a flooded engine?

Anyways I didn't argue, and just called corporate back to clarify that I was covered, and they said yes.

Ok flash forward to Monday, 5pm, right when service closes.....they call me and leave me a message stating that my engine is somehow full of water and I will need a brand new engine......WTF............

How does a normal issue, like RX-8 flooding, fill an engine with water? He doesn't tell me why and of course is gone because its after 5.

So I call 2 other Mazda dealers, their service departments were still open, and take my call....and they say that is the biggest line of bullshit they have ever heard about a Mazda.......

Now, the car has 88k miles on it, but the engine only has 50K on it, with brand new coils, and new spark plugs, and was in perfect condition......

Has anyone ever heard of this issue, because I can not find an example of it.

Thanks for reading.....I know it was long. Please help, I can not afford a new engine right now.

RX8Soldier

iTrader: (24)

very short question: Is your car an auto or manual?

The dealership sounds like they're giving you quite a story. I would refuse service from them and try taking it to a different mazda dealer, or trusted mechanic

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

(wow, two threads starting within the same minute regarding flooding trouble)

Yes, your engine sounds flooded. "water" could be anything from fuel to coolant. No reason it would actually be "water"

However, as with any flooding issues, there is an underlying problem of WHY it flooded. Flooding always occurs when there is too much fuel in the engine for it to ignite. Either A) there is actually too much fuel, which could only be a leaky injector, or B) there is a normal amount of fuel injected on the start attempt, but the ignition isn't strong enough to ignite it. If the latter is the problem, it is always plugs, wires, coils, a weak battery or a weak starter.

If you don't fix the underlying reason why it flooded, then it's just going to keep flooding.

There is also technically the possibility that the compression in the engine is too low to get adequate compression of the mixture to have it light off strongly enough, but this usually doesn't cause a flood, since it IS igniting the fuel in there, not just building it up.

Literally, if this is a simple flood, it will cost you far far less to get it towed out of the dealer and back home and just ask for help from locals here on the boards (no location noted of where you are?)

OEM Coils, plugs, and wires can all be had from Advance Auto Parts (yes, all OEM) for about $200. Replacing them all yourself is really easy. Unsure? see if there are any locals here to help you. Helps build your confidence anyway. Starter, if it's that, is ~$350 from Mazmart new, and is 2 clips and 2 bolts on the side of the transmission, ridiculously easy to reach if you have the driver's side of the car up on jacks. Battery should be obvious.

Dealers will RAPE you on the charges for these. As I am sure you are finding out. Even the friendly ones.

Deflooding. Well, there are lots of methods. Mazda's official method of holding the pedal to the flood while cranking several times before trying to start, pulling the e-shaft sensor and fuel pump fuse while cranking, pull starting it, etc... All totally viable. Another car there with jumper cables is just about critical for all of them, or the fast weakening battery will just keep perpetuating the flooding.


Warranty:
Yes. It's somewhat puzzling that you are not aware of this, but there is an 8yr 100,000 mile warranty on the engine. That's just engine replacement though, nothing else. So technically corporate is wrong, deflooding is NOT covered under this warranty. Neither are the other little parts like ignition, starter, etc... If for some reason the engine is actually dead, you have 2 months left under this warranty (from the sounds of it) to have that covered. That being said, if you can get MNAO to give you coverage in writing, then you have a leg up on the problem. There is also a possibility that there is another individually selected and paid for warranty specific to your car that they are referring to.

willnordacgreen1211

iTrader: (3)

I feel your pain. im not going to explain my story in full bc its as long if not longer than what you just wrote. but im in a very simmilar boat.

CPLD

Thanks for the heads up......yea it should still be under that 8 year warranty.......so if it does need a new engine....then maybe everything will work out.....

I will find out more tomorrow and post updates....thanks again for the help/views....


But still, I can not find another example of water in the engine for RX-8s........

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The only issues of actual water in the engine you will find is for the people with aftermarket intakes that drove through deep-ish puddles, ingested a bunch of water and the non-compressibility of the water cracked the engine block. Always identifiable when both coolant and oil are leaking from the block itself.


That clearly isn't your issue.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

Have you had the MSP-16 reflash done? Should take care of the majority of flooding issues assuming coils, etc. are ok.