So, I was driving my rx-8 today and while sitting at a light - light turns green, i go - it dies.. I am almost sure I didn't stall it, then it wouldn't crank over - I could hear it wanting to turn (not like it was flooded, it was just going err err err err err err) and never cranking. I put my hazards on, tried it again - same thing.

Thank god I had some friends with me, we push it off to the side, wait - im calling people, try it again, nothing. Finally after waiting a bit, like letting it cool down? it finally cranked, horribly.

I have videos of my car doing HORRIBLE start-ups just to see what you guys had to say about it, since I have always felt my starter was crap, just never put it up - but this was a whole new starting problem.

Now, while driving my car home, it had to of died a billion more times, all with the same process of waiting - then starting it up. I was even in neutral one time and hit the gas - WHICH btw, the gas at idle is "delayed." but once revs are up it responds fine?? - it died??

either way, what do you guys think is the problem. The idle sits sometimes at the normal 800 but then it dropped way down to 500 - i gave it some gas, it shot up, i went to go - it died.

OH, and my car SHAKES.. like violently, which scares the **** out of me some. I wish I waited on buying my "dream" car for not such a lemon one.

 

give it more gas when you get going.
at least 1500rpm to get going.
also check your sparkplugs and coils.
we need more info about the car.

 

Spark plugs and coils were replaced within the past, what? 500 miles? and I do give it gas, but like I said it is delayed at idle and the car will occasionally die even when just sitting there - something is really messed up and this has never acted this way or been this bad.

 

year of car and millage?
also try to clean MAF sensor.

 

The videos of the hard starts you had before, can you post them? Was it only bad when the car was warm?

 

Surprised no one has even brought this up yet...

Before buying your dream car, did you happen to get a compression test?
Rotary's life expectancy tends to be on the short side.

Hard starts = bad ignition, weak starter, battery, or engine compression.. usually compression.

 

Coils new, sparks new, new oil, cleaned maf, compression test when I got it was "high" according to mazda - they stated that it was "high" because I overfilled the oil by half a quart? either way they drained it, no problems.

The car would run fine and the starts were like this. If the car was "hot" lets say i stalled it, it would crank. Only when it was "warm" or just turned off within 5 mins, it would take a while to crank, and sometimes it is really scary.

Cold starts suck too - like early in the morning, but I got used to it and was just like w/e.

FUNNY THING.. the guys at the mazda dealership in town said the starter was "fine" and it was even "aftermarket"?? O.o I just feel the mazda dealers here are stupid and don't know **** but idk.

but like I am saying, the main problem wasn't even the starting - again it was bad but it's fine. the problem is now with the gas being "delayed" when pressed when at idle, the idle bouncing a bit and even dropping, the car randomly dieing when in just sitting there and the horrible shaking that wound go on and off when sitting now.

I will post videos soon.

 

I had an interesting conversation with an experienced rotary head at Atkins.

He said that they expect a well-maintained Renesis (Series I or II) to do 160,000 miles on average, based on their first hand interaction with track rats and with everyday drivers.

He said in nearly every case of premature compression failure they've seen, the rotary was not properly maintained, with low oil levels, bad plugs and coils, and bad gasoline leading to lots of predetonation being the main culprits (aside from heavily modded motors by way of forced induction, which is very risky with the Renesis).

 

I'm not doubting that it's possible to get 160,000 miles out of a rotary but even with the most upkeep, there have been premature engine failures due to Mazda's mishap on the earlier ecu flashes. My guess, he just purchased the car not long ago and the previous owner, or my guess owners sold it due to it being problematic and have not maintained it like they should have.

My first Rx-8 had 82,210 miles on the original engine and the only reason I lost compression was due to dealership negligence.

 

JamesD31,

Just from your posts, I would be looking at the fuel pump for the cause of your stalling and throttle delay, motor mounts because of the horrible shaking, and remove and clean the battery and starter wire connections to see if the cranking improves. You might even need a new battery, depending on how old your current one is.

Honestly, just having a dealer say your compression is "high" because you overfilled the oil is suspect. Did you get the actual results from them on how the engine actually tested? I'm sure the answer is no, but I'm asking anyway.

You need to take the car in for a real compression test at a different Mazda dealer, if you have one nearby. Do a search on compression test results to get an idea of what you should be receiving from the dealer.

Another thing to try is to simply switch the ignition coils positions. Swap the leading and trailing coils with each other on the same rotor. So L1 becomes T1, T1 becomes L1, L2 Becomes T2, and finally T2 becomes L2.

If there's an issue with the connections between the coils and the wires, this should also help correct it.

BC.

 

I don't think I need a new battery since it holds charge pretty well (when I was deflooding my car the first time my dad drove it to move it, i had it on a charger).

No, I did not see any of the results - they stated that they had "contacted Mazda corporate to ask why it would be so high, corporate stated it could be to lots of oil or..." some other reason I forget.

Also, why would witching the positions on the plugs (not the coils) help? shouldn't they be in the correct spot they are made for anyways?

I never replaced the wires, I might eventually.

ANYWAYS.. UPDATE FROM MAZDA:

Motor mounts are worn down, causing the shaking? that is getting replaced
Carbon build up in engine, blocking the fueling, ultimately causing misfires? getting it cleaned out (why didn't they notice this when they did the compression test? >_>)

Also, as they keep reminding me - I need a new clutch.. but they just want my money anyways, especially since they want to charge me ~$1,700 for a clutch?! yea, they aren't getting that from me.

Either way, new mounts should be in tomorrow and the engine / carbon clean out should be done too - lets see if this fixes anything or not =/

EDIT: would that stuff Mazda said make sense and be true?

 

You need to re-read exactly that I wrote.



Yes, I said that.

Yes and no.
Decarb the engine, and have the compression tested again.

One of two things will happen, depending on the results:

1 - Carbon was causing the apex and side seals to stick in a position that decreased the compression. The removal of this carbon will increase your compression, end your misfires, and increase power and efficiency.

2 - Carbon was built up on the rotor face, and increasing compression, causing decreased amount of fuel to be ingested, compressed, and burned, reducing power, and possibly causing misfires, leading to even more carbon build up. When cleaned, your compression will decrease, but the engine should run better.

Yes, it makes sense.
Don't know if it will actually solve your issues, however.
Is your engine still under extended warranty?
There's a possibility that you're going to need a new one when everything is said and done.

BC.

 

Yes, almost everything, even some wear and tear parts are covered under my extended warranty.

So, the car "shifts" nicer i guess? a little smoother ride - or maybe I just forgot how nice the rx-8 is? I went, took it out of the shop - start-up was the same, went a couple miles, got some gas (turned it off) - started it up, it cranked at the USUAL "shitty" cranking >.< so - as far as I can tell they either didn't do anything for me, or the carbon isn't my cranking issue.

Now, my *** shakes - it's always shook, is this common? the car itself doesn't seem to shake anymore, or at least I didn't feel like it was - i can tell the side mirror was shaking a bit (tested with radio off too).

I didn't want to do another compression test since it would cost me yet another ~$200 of money that I really don't have. What pisses me off is the first compression test they say was high, yet did nothing but drain the oil for? I feel the Mazda dealership in town just wants me to keep coming back in and isn't replacing anything or doing what they are supposed to. I say this because all they do is keep reminding me of the damn stupid clutch that needs to be replaced - and honestly, it's not even slipping yet imo.

I am going to try to upload the videos right now to youtube.

 

Yes, a bit of vibration at idle is normal for the shifter.
A bit of movement of the shifter is normal if you get hard on and off the throttle quickly, and more noticeable in turns, just to let you know before you notice that in the coming days.

Crappy starting is either weak battery, weak starter, weak fuel pump, or crappy compression.

You can buy/rent a compression tester and follow the forum instructions to rule out/in compression.

You can find the starter thread with video links on youtube to rule out/in the starter.

You can have your battery load tested at your local auto parts store to rule out the battery.

You can rent/buy a fuel system pressure tester to rule out the fuel pump.

Also, like I mentioned before, going over the battery wire connectors at the battery and the starter will eliminate any corrosion that might be adding to the issue.

BC.

 

Check your battery posts. If they're loose, it won't crank over. The starter puts the largest draw on the battery of anything in the car.

 

I will try all of that, though I do not think it is the battery, and maybe not even the starter? I say this because the starter kicks and attempts to "crank" the engine over every time - it just takes forever and depending upon how "hot" the engine is, depends upon how shitty the crank - aka a "warm" engine (only off for a few mins, not stalled) is the WORST at cranking over.

 

You do realize that we have entire threads dedicated to cars having exactly those problems? Battery, starter, compression, or fuel pump. It has been very very rare when its not one of those items that caused the issue.

If it were me, I would start with going to an autoparts store, and having my battery tested.

Then, I would get under the hood of the car, and clean the battery post connections, then slide under the car, and clean the main wire connecting the starter to the battery.

If that doesn't improve starting performance at the quick shut off situations (stopping a hot car for gas), then I would hunt a replacement starter IF the cranking is really slow during those hot restart situations. If money is a major issue, I would go to carpart online, and see which salvage yard near me has an '07 or newer starter, for cheap in their supply, and swap starters to see if that makes a difference.

If that speeds up the cranking when hot considerably, it should help if not solve the issue.

If, however, the cranking is very fast already, just like during a cold start, but the car winds up having to crank over forever, then I would test the fuel system, and compression by borrowing a couple of tools from that auto parts store.

You need to get under your car, and figure out what's wrong with it.
We can only keep telling you the same things over and over until you give us more information to go on (ie - doing the things we recommend, and telling us the results).

BC.

 

I just found the results for the compression test from Mazda. The following are their comments:

COMPRESSION READINGS ARE AS FOLLOWED
#1 @ 265 RPM - 12.8, 12.8, 12.8 / #2 @ 261 RPM - 10.9, 11.0, 12.7
PLUGS, WIRES, COILS APEAR NEWER. CONVERTOR NOT PLUGGED AND OIL LEVEL IS OVER 1/2 QT. OVERFILLED, DRAINED TO LEVEL. SOME OIL IN INTAKE BOOT, SUGGESTING BLOW-BY. SUSPECT OIL MAY BE SYNTHETIC. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ROTARY ENGINES. SE ATTACHED CODE P0037, REAR 02 SENSOR HEATER FAULT. AND DRIVE CYCLE HAS NOT FINISHED PER HAVING NO REAR TO FRONT SWITCH RATIO. SUGGESTING CHANGING OIL AND RETESTING AFTER DRIVEN 50 MILES AND CLUTCH IS CLOSE TO BEING NOT DRIVEABLE.

That is the exact words on my report. Now can anyone make any of those issues into which are important fixes? And wow those compression levels are really high aren't they? BTW - oil was normal (not synthetic) and my clutch is very driveable.

Also, it was raining last night and my car "slides." My tires still have a good amount of tread on them, but does the rx-8 have traction control?

 

TCS/DSC was added for Touring and Grand Touring trims. Base and Sport did not have those.

Those compression readings are impossibly high if the normal scale is used. Either they did something wrong or those are not in the same unit of measurement as normal.

Overfilling oil could indeed lead to dumping oil into the intake, which will then get dumped into the engine, and in enough quantities could cause problems with ignition, leading to the issues you describe around stalling and trouble starting.



I distrust your compression readings however, so you still might have a failing engine.

 

The compression on the rear rotor is a little low on 2 of the faces. That suggests a weak spring on an apex seal.
I'm concerned about the clutch peddle issue. There is a manufacturing problem where they (the peddle assembly in the cabin) are found to break and leave you stranded. A deal was worked out between the government and Mazda where they would be replaced under certain conditions.
http://www.gerhardstein.net/picturestokeep/RX8SSP82.PDF
I believe all models had traction control. Not all had stability control. Do you have halogen or xenon headlights? Models with xenon would have stability control.
Summer tires don't like cold temperatures (below 40F). I spun mine, long ago, on I-355 curve (near I-88) on a cold raining morning.

 

04 and 05 models had different trim levels than later ones. There was a base model w/o TSC/DSC and had halogen headlamps. The Sport model came with DSC/TSC and xenon headlamps.
Base AT models had 16" wheels, where the Sport AT came with 18".

 

My car has HID's and there is a DSC button - but the light on the dash is off so it is on?

In regards to the compression - what is "normal" or what should the ratings be? Also why are you talking about the clutch peddle issue? or is that what "DRIVE CYCLE HAS NOT FINISHED PER HAVING NO REAR TO FRONT SWITCH RATIO" meant? Because I have no idea wth a drive cycle is.

What should my steps be, get another compression test by myself or by a Mazda dealership? I am heading back to Chicago on Saturday, maybe I can get it then?

 

If a model has TCS, then it also has DSC, and vise versa. There was the Sport version without either specifically to satisfy the track guys, and the base AT didn't for whatever other reasons.

Yup, just covering across the years, whether they were trims or packages, though the Sport didn't automatically have DSC/TCS, again, for track guys. They got the suspension, brakes, CF driveshaft, etc... of the sport package without the "interference" of the safety gear.

1) Yes, if you don't have the DSC light lit or flashing and don't have the wavy tire track icon lit or flashing then the system is on. That doesn't mean it will work however. Drive your car into a lake and the DSC won't do jack for you. Same thing if you throw it onto the ice sideways at 100mph. Or any other condition where there is no tire grip for the system to actually alter the behavior of the car.

2) Assuming that is the normal scale, it should be about a peak of 9.0. Low 9s are exceedingly rare, but possible. Normal healthy is low to mid 8s, normal aged is in the 7s, fading is in the 6s and dead is in the 5s. This would be the first time I have EVER seen 12s on that scale, and being nearly 33% higher than the highest I've seen before is ... suspicious. The other common scale is PSI, which is numbers from the 80s to the 120s. Bar is also possible, but not common in the US.

3) A drive cycle is related to starting the car, driving it, and stopping it. After a battery reset, the system looks for certain conditions for various tests to determine system readiness. They aren't exotic tests, and it is unlikely that you won't cover each of the stages needed within 3-4 drive cycles. If you drive to work then from work each day and that is it, then 1 day is 2 drive cycles. It is possible to hit all of the needed points in 1 drive cycle, and Mazda has those detailed for the techs so that techs can hit them specifically to minimize testing time. See post #5 in this thread: https://www.rx8club.com/trouble-shoo...-check-238534/

 

Well that makes sense, I wasn't sure because it was just sliding a lot more than a usual car. Then again it is probably because it is a RWD and first "sports" car I have ever driven - especially a manual car - so I am not used to the flexibility of it.

Well, I am not sure where I can even get a tester - autozone only has the normal testers, and I would not even know how to test all three faces.

Also thank you for talking about the drive cycle - thought it had to do with the clutch peddle issue that alnielsen spoke about.

Oh, so I am not sure if it is the cold weather now or what, which I don't think because before it wasn't even this bad - but my cranking times are worst now; it almost didn't even crank over and made 0 cranking sound for like 4 seconds until turning over - which worries me since sat morning I have to get up early and drive home (from school back to chicago which is a 2 hour drive).

 

Just a suggestion...check vacuum lines and also I would check intake sensor. I know this sounds minor but have seen both cause major issues and shaking as well as you mention with delayed response time when pressing the gas. What intake do you have on the car? On my AEM intake, if one of the screens is not seated correctly, it will cause the issues you have mentioned as well.