Pre-emptive maintenance for clutch snapping?
11-10-2009, 10:38 AM
#27
The age old argument as always which is better....
welds break...
Proof from a customer that sent in his that his was welded at a local welder shop...
The argument posed as a bracket being a band aid is hilarious and the fact that welding is even suggested as superior is even more hilarious.
Proof is right there in the pictures so far I have had 4 customers that already welded theirs locally and gave up.
The more interesting part is that those customers that have called me were not even members of the forum they were just average RX-8 owners with no interest in modding of sorts or any kind of motorsports activity. Common sense must have led them to have it welded then when that failed again they just Googled it and found us. So to be more accurate we only have recently had a phone line where people could call in. I can only imagine how many people there would be out there that have this issue.....
Give it time, the welds will break.
welds break...
Proof from a customer that sent in his that his was welded at a local welder shop...
The argument posed as a bracket being a band aid is hilarious and the fact that welding is even suggested as superior is even more hilarious.
Proof is right there in the pictures so far I have had 4 customers that already welded theirs locally and gave up.
The more interesting part is that those customers that have called me were not even members of the forum they were just average RX-8 owners with no interest in modding of sorts or any kind of motorsports activity. Common sense must have led them to have it welded then when that failed again they just Googled it and found us. So to be more accurate we only have recently had a phone line where people could call in. I can only imagine how many people there would be out there that have this issue.....
Give it time, the welds will break.
11-10-2009, 11:54 AM
#28
2005 Black RX-8 GT 6M
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^ I find it very surprising that four average RX-8 owners who have done zero mods would out-of-the-blue decide to weld their clutch bracket. I can tell you the average non-Google searching owner probably doesn't even know that they should rev their engines frequently. It just seems odd.
Race Roots - So was that bracket rusty before you got it?
Race Roots - So was that bracket rusty before you got it?
11-10-2009, 12:01 PM
#29
I have to partially disagree with weld being a bad solution. Having personal welding experience, those welds were a crap job. I bet the wrong filler was used and it looks to be MIG welding. Hell the edge of the metal was welded on and it wasn't effective coverage between the two parts.
The better way is proper filler metal, TIG weld it, do a good weld job and lastly for good measure temp treat it to strengthen it.
The better way is proper filler metal, TIG weld it, do a good weld job and lastly for good measure temp treat it to strengthen it.
11-10-2009, 12:01 PM
#30
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I cant see the welds very well, but these welds were done with a TIG welder. Which is specialized for thin, short and small welds. However, these welds were not done properly. If you look at the bottom picture, you can see the welds have a lot of blackness, with very little blue. Black = burnt rust (and other foreign matter), blue = tempered material. Again, i can't see it very well, but it looks to me like the arc wasn't hot enough to make a solid weld through the material. When a weld is done properly, it is much stronger than the original material and would be next to impossible to break. This welder used the filler material like a soldering iron. This is not the proper technique.
In the welder's defense, metal this thin is very tricky to weld. Once it melts it can easily drip, run or move around. He definitely had skill, this is just not ideal welding material. Use the bracket IMO unless you are, or know a master TIG welder.
In the welder's defense, metal this thin is very tricky to weld. Once it melts it can easily drip, run or move around. He definitely had skill, this is just not ideal welding material. Use the bracket IMO unless you are, or know a master TIG welder.
11-10-2009, 12:03 PM
#31
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I have to partially disagree with weld being a bad solution. Having personal welding experience, those welds were a crap job. I bet the wrong filler was used and it looks to be MIG welding. Hell the edge of the metal was welded on and it wasn't effective coverage between the two parts.
The better way is proper filler metal, TIG weld it, do a good weld job and lastly for good measure temp treat it to strengthen it.
The better way is proper filler metal, TIG weld it, do a good weld job and lastly for good measure temp treat it to strengthen it.
11-10-2009, 12:08 PM
#32
And TIG is more than just thin, short, welds. It's used for full fabrication of many frames and structures especially in the automotive world. MIG is used for sheet metal as well and for short small jobs like this many times, depend on different factors.
I say it's poor filler selection, and some of those welds if not most look like a crap job IMO, not a professional in my opinion.
11-10-2009, 12:25 PM
#33
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I was thinking that initially, but look at the last pic the top weld, that doesn't resemble a TIG weld in my experience but rather a MIG. It might be a mix of both maybe if done before by another party.
And TIG is more than just thin, short, welds. It's used for full fabrication of many frames and structures especially in the automotive world. MIG is used for sheet metal as well and for short small jobs like this many times, depend on different factors.
I say it's poor filler selection, and some of those welds if not most look like a crap job IMO, not a professional in my opinion.
And TIG is more than just thin, short, welds. It's used for full fabrication of many frames and structures especially in the automotive world. MIG is used for sheet metal as well and for short small jobs like this many times, depend on different factors.
I say it's poor filler selection, and some of those welds if not most look like a crap job IMO, not a professional in my opinion.
11-10-2009, 12:26 PM
#34
Not being a master TIG welder and not even being qualified to recognize a master TIG welder and his/her work, that pretty much decides it for me. The only solution that I'll actually be able to tell if it's working or not is the bracket. I don't have the skillset to tell if the welds, which I have to farm out to a third party, are done properly or not. Also, bear in mind that my RX-8 is a daily driver. If I pull the bracket in order to get it welded, then I'm walking to wherever (including the welding shop). This complicates the situation by limiting my options. I'm certainly not going to have my car useless for multiple days while my clutch bracket is shipped some place, in order to be reasonably certain that the welds won't suck. Even if the weld was $2, a rental car is very quickly going to cost more than the bracket.
11-10-2009, 01:18 PM
#35
^ I find it very surprising that four average RX-8 owners who have done zero mods would out-of-the-blue decide to weld their clutch bracket. I can tell you the average non-Google searching owner probably doesn't even know that they should rev their engines frequently. It just seems odd.
Race Roots - So was that bracket rusty before you got it?
Race Roots - So was that bracket rusty before you got it?
I mean if I have a crack on an exhaust pipe I am going to take it to the welder..right?
And Yes it came like that rusted
11-10-2009, 02:22 PM
#37
Some of those weld jobs look like hacks did them. If the welders that work for me did those I would have new welders. Now I'll I will say if they were trying to fix one that is already cracked or broken then it can't be fixed just replaced.
11-10-2009, 03:12 PM
#38
2005 Black RX-8 GT 6M
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For those of who are not experts, TIG stand for Tungsten Inert Gas. Thanks Google.
* Does anyone have a pic of the welded bracket that BHR provides with all its clutch kits? It'd be a good comparison.
Last edited by CarAndDriver; 11-10-2009 at 03:15 PM.
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