ChrisW

Didn't they do exactly this with the Euro spec cars, telling us it would be 240 ps before they had established whether this was possible or not? I'd like to think Mazda aren't stupid, but the longer this goes on, the more it looks like the most credible explanation ("when you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable..." etc).

DisneyDestroyer

There is a difference between "expected" and "final". When they advertised 250 in the US, it was expected HP. When they got the final numbers, it was 247. So that's what was advertised.

Lensman

This is slightly different: the 240bhp car that we were promised met current regulations and they could have gone with it. The car we'll get will meet projected requirements and they presumably decided to do this late in the day.

KamokuWan

Have they still made no responses on this? I would think that by this time they would have. I see more and more RX-8s on the road, I wonder how many went in to buy one before doing the research. Hopefully none. When I bought mine I knew what I was getting into. I am just hoping Mazda does the right thing and owns up to it, and fixes it.

KyngNothing

I don't know, It's only been what, 2 weeks since the first dyno came up? Give them a few days to hear about it, I don't think 1.5 weeks is that "long" of a time for a corporation like mazda to take to research and formulate a response for something like this...

bern

Guys:
You haven't heard from us in a few days because there is really no new concrete information to report on yet. We've been talking to a lot of folks and shaking some bushes, but no definite answer has been established yet. Dan is breaking-in the RN RX-8 and as soon as it's ready to go, we will be putting the car on the dyno and doing some research. Also, major import magazines have caught wind of this issue, and have already or are going to very soon, commence their own dyno testing. Should be interesting!

Anyway, from the little and scarce information we've been able to gather, it's unfortunately looking like an emmisions equipment issue. This of course is all unconfirmed and speculative still.

STAY TUNED!

-Bern

RX-Nut

WOOHOO thanks Bern.. power to the people!

Aw man, if the mags caught wind of this, you know it had to be from here.. Information is contagious..

bern

It might've been, but at least one magazine contributor tested a car he had available, and was baffled by the #'s. He started to looking for answers, immediately. This was at least a couple weeks ago, and no real mention of the forum or it's information was cited.

BTW, a few tuners around the country now have 8's in hand, and are starting to conduct dyno test.


Again, shoud be interesting...

-Bern

pelucidor

...and soon the whole world will know. Or at least those that read car mags, with ripples spreading ever outward. I wonder if it will ever make the TV news on a slow day: Mazda 'cheating' buyers by inflating HP estimates yet again (or something similar). Mazda better pray their PR people make a response (ANY response) before that happens.

I love my car but I am very concerned about Mazda's reputation and the effect on future rotary vehicles ever being approved by Ford for release. It's been three weeks since the first dyno graph here from 1stRX8 and over 2 weeks since Compaddicts dyno with all environmental conditions was posted. Tick tock.

TybeeRX-8

Check out the K&N thread. If what is reported is true and 16hp was found with a "filter charger" or the like, then that should give us an idea re A/F ratio and or timing.
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8903

:D

5Gen_Prelude

Everyone's pointing towards the ECU as being the source - I have a simple question for those in the know - is it possible? I mean does it make sense that an ECU could free up an additonal 20+ Hp?

RodsterinFL

I believe Mazda knows already. It is highly improbable that they are unfamiliar with their engine. The ECU question could be answered immediately (on remapping) and at this point I would venture to say that the only reason that there is a form letter response is that they are deciding what their options are. I wrote them and received a reword statement of my own with the same reply - we are looking into it.

BillK

Step back and take a breath of reality for a moment.

Mazda is a large company. If you've ever dealt with a large company like Mazda (or Ford, or GM) you know that it would take two or more months for the company to approve a statement for release saying the sky is blue.

I'm sure Mazda is investigating and is preparing a response, but even when they do know something it will likely take awhile to make its way through legal.

In the mean time, don't forget that those of us here, along with those who read car magazines in general are an infinitesimal portion of the market and at best represent perhaps 5% of buyers or potential buyers...

ChrisW

I don't believe thats true. Do you have any old literature saying that the car produces 240 ps and meets Euro 3? I thought it was supposed to be Euro 4 all along. Anyway, did a 240 ps car meeting any Euro regulations ever exist? Does a 231 ps car exist? My understanding is that these are just expected figures (pre-production cars don't have to meet emission regulations so they are not representative). Given that they can reprogram the cars when they arrive at their destination, it's even possible that they are still working on getting 231 ps for the Eurp spec cars.

RobDickinson

I think/believe the Australian car , as they have ~ Euro stage 3 emmissions is the 240ps version.

If so that car would be legal for sale in Europe now. but not in 1.5 years time.

ChrisW

Yes, but is the Australian car actually on sale yet, or is this just another spec that Mazda hope to meet. Or if it is on sale, does it really produce 240 ps?

RobDickinson

Australians are driving tgheir cars right now.

No reports of missing power , but no dyno's Ithink.


They are looking at ways to get from 240 to 250 ps tho

twocycler

So I have been following this whole hp thread. The 6MTs are making 180hp or so at the rear wheels. From the dyno charts, power does not seem to increase as it should above 6,000rpm and the shape of the curve gets all lumpy.

Buger scales the Mazda power graph and overlays it with a production dyno graph. Power looks to be kosher until just past 6,000 rpm.

So...last night I get the R&T RX8 supplement in the mail and am reading over it. Numerous times it refers to 250 or 247 hp. It also shows 147mph at 9,000rpm in 5th gear and 148mph at 7650? rpm in 6th gear with an asterisk. The aterisk denotes that it is speed limited electronically. Also, in the engine section it shows that the additional intake port is supposed to open at 6,250 rpm.

My point is that since the performance of the 250ps and 210ps car seem to be so close (Japanese magazine published data), doesnt it seem logical that there is a problem with the additional intake port opening at 6,250rpm? Combine this with the story above the preproduction cars having a problem with a sticking port?

I am not a car mechanic, but I do build two stroke motorcycle racing engines and alot of the port issues with the rotary are very similar in concept. I just looks like the car runs fine until just over 6,000rpm, so why dont you break down the things that can only occur at that point?

Thanks,

Rocky
6MT Titanium/Black/Grand Touring

Gyro

The Graphs clearly show the Port opening above 6000 RPM.

twocycler

The graphs clearly show a dip above 6,000. Even in Buger's post he made a correlation between the fact that the graph seems to encounter problems at the same RPM that the port is supposed to open. Youre assuming that because there is a dip at 6,250 that the port is functioning correctly. I simply see a dip and then the power curve is rough and the horsepower does not build as it is claimed to do past this point. What's your idea?

Thanks,

Rocky
6MT Titanium/Black/Grand Touring

brillo

I haven't been able to figure out, what was the drive train loss for the generation 3 NA RX-7? or the other generation RX-7's? this would be a good point of reference, as the engine isn't radically different and the drain train for the 8 should be quite effeicent witha carbon fiber drive shaft.

ProtoConVert

I agree. What if it were an airflow problem or obstruction... you would see a dip with port-opening turbulence or whatever, but w/o resonance induction you won't see full power.

Does anyone know what power a baseline NA rotary would make w/ non-resonating intake flow at that rpm?

ProtoConVert

one more thing... this next point is painfully non-technical but note that the difference between Acura TL (225hp) and TL type S or type R or whatever has 260hp is purely a high rpm resonance in the intake

nk_Rx8

But don't forget that the TL-S also has a freer flowing exhaust, larger throttle body, higher compression ratio, higher redline, more aggressive cams, and different intake valves.

ProtoConVert

(sits quietly in corner)

Those would indeed account for a good part of the power. In fact now that I look at it more it seems the intake difference on the type S is more of a ram air effect than resonance.