I've been following and posting on this forum for several weeks now and I need to get this off my chest.

First, there is the horsepower issue. Sure it's an important matter, but truly only for "bragging rights" and nothing else if you enjoy driving the car. Most of us will never see a race track or drag strip, I think. And, clearly Mazda didn't intend the 8 to be a dragster. Okay, it will be autocrossed and I'll surely do it with mine. But tires and shocks will make the difference (also driver's skill), not raw HP. I often see Miatas beating lots of higher hp cars and they do it with light weight, driver skill, Hoosiers and good shocks. I know one FSP Civic that regularly get FTD in my neighborhood.

Second, all the comparisons are way off base. The 8 was not intended to compare with an S2000 or a 350Z or a Z4 or a Boxster S. They are two seat roadsters, except for the 350Z. The 8 is a sportscar, but more of a touring sportscar. I've driven the others and I wouldn't want to take a long trip in any of them. No so for the 8. It is clearly a more comfortable car to live with on a long trip and as a daily driver. If Mazda intended to compete with the others above, I suppose we would've seen a rotor motor in a Miata or a replacement RX-7 (which may come). Speaking of the 7, compare an FD with a 350Z, S2000, etc., and I think you know who wins. It was a little more expensive, but it was a car that properly competes with the likes of those cars.

I've always held that a good car is one you like to drive, be seen in and isn't in the shop all the time. I believe the 8 fits those needs for me and it will carry four adults in a pinch, it has a real trunk, it handles/brakes very well and so on.

And in the normal course, it will leave lots of cars in the dust if you "drive it like you stole it" I leave all sorts of bigger, faster cars, SUVs, trucks, etc., at the light in my stock Miata! It's not that I street race, but I just like the sound of 6500-7000 rpm in 1st and 2nd gear...some K&N induction noise with a JR sports muffler to back it up.

So, I suppose this will earn me some real "flames", but so be it. I don't think Mazda will ignore the HP issue because some tort happy lawyer will undoubtedly file a suit looking for some easy money if they do. It will be resolved one way or another. In the final analysis, it will those of us who really own the 8 to decide if it's an enjoyable ride.

Oh, one last thing. I saw a thread where someone was concerned about depreciation. All cars depreciate, some a little faster than others. Cars clearly are not good "investments" unless you buying a Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley or Rolls. So to those who express that concern, I suggest you look elsewhere to spend your money. Fini.

 

*clap clap clap*

 

100% agree, everyone loves a controversy, and the RX-8 surely has its share, as we all know to well. But at the end of the night, who do you want to take home? That's always the question, and the answer should give pause to the those who forget the real purpose of this car.

Hey, I can beat most any clueless driver, all sorts of bigger, faster cars, SUVs, trucks, etc., at a stoplight with a 1992 Eagle Summit with who knows how little HP just winding it out. Big deal.

Most cars sound like/feel like sewing machines gone wild if they are pressed to go fast. Most people don't dare do it. Not fun, not pretty. Even uncomforatble.

But my Mazda RX-8 is fun ..smoooth.. and .PDF (.Pretty Darn Fast). Stoplights are easy. Twisties are where the fun begins, but still this car turns turns into non-events, others may think you're crazy, but from my drivers seat it seems like a walk in the park.

Finding a challenge is more the problem, i.e., It takes challenging driving to a new level. We should be more happily comparing 'driving experience' NOT 0-60 mph, not 2 seat vs. 2+2 seat, because we are the owners of car a providing instead something more important... driving contentment.

 

I agree. I have also enjoyed this site very much. I have learned tons of information on the rx8.

 

I agree with everything but the HP issue. On my window sticker it clearly states that the car is rated at 247HP. I paid for the car expecting 247hp. If it's not making the amount stated then I'm getting ripped off. You're not getting what you paid for, plain and simple. It's like buying a 61inch TV and when you open up the box you find a 19inch. I'm sure you would be singing a different tune if the car was only making 147rwhp. I'm 99% sure that the ECU is running a conservative fuel map for x amount of miles during a break in period. If it's not and Mazda overstated the numbers, it's going to affect sales. And if the 4th gen RX-7 doesn't get made because of this it'll be a huge let down for all of us waiting for it.

Even with 247hp, someone is always going to be faster. Like this guy ->
Right Click and Save

 

TybeeRX-8, you're right about these points. Really, the ONLY one thing that bothers me about the RX-8 is the abysmal fuel economy. I'm fine with the car in all other aspects but this one.
I can not imagine how Mazda could accept an engine design that is intended for a fine sports coupe but gets the fuel mileage of an SUV. And on top of that, as far as I know, the Renesis won the Engine of the Year award - and part of the reasons was how efficient and clean the engine is. Huh?
I dunno, I probably overreact to this gas guzzling problem - but come on, on average 18 mpg? On the freeway? Not even driving it like a maniac? Give me a break.
At least the car should be able to fulfill the 24 mpg freeway specification (which is still miserable but I could live with that). No one can really say that this is not a serious problem with a sports car when other, stronger and faster cars wax the floor with the RX-8 in this department.

Other than this, the RX-8 is truly all I'd look for in a sporty car.

I'm sure I'll get a lot of flames myself for this viewpoint, but so be it. That won't change the truth.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tamas
[B]TybeeRX-8, you're right about these points. Really, the ONLY one thing that bothers me about the RX-8 is the abysmal fuel economy. I'm fine with the car in all other aspects but this one.
I can not imagine how Mazda could accept an engine design that is intended for a fine sports coupe but gets the fuel mileage of an SUV. And on top of that, as far as I know, the Renesis won the Engine of the Year award - and part of the reasons was how efficient and clean the engine is. Huh?
I dunno, I probably overreact to this gas guzzling problem - but come on, on average 18 mpg? On the freeway? Not even driving it like a maniac? Give me a break.
At least the car should be able to fulfill the 24 mpg freeway specification (which is still miserable but I could live with that). No one can really say that this is not a serious problem with a sports car when other, stronger and faster cars wax the floor with the RX-8 in this department.

Having driven an SUV in LA traffic for way too many years I can attest that the RX-8 is a gas guzzler like my ML320 was - but oh boy, is it a pleasure to drive. I took a trip to Vegas a few days after I got the car and got almost 23 mpg - in 6th w/cruise on of course. best thing was - my back was not killing me when I got there 4 hours later!
Love the car!!!!:D :D

 

Hey, I've driven my wife's G500 in LA traffic and you want to talk about abysmal gas mileage, sitting on a "park bench" for 2-3 hours, getting leg cramps from pressing the gas pedal. Well, I'm looking forward to 18 mpg and if I get 24 on the hwy, it will be simply wonderful. But, the 8 is a sports car and the way I drive, I doubt that will be the case. I average 22-23mpg in my Miata, at best, unless I'm in 6th cruising on a boring interstate.

 

Let me know if you feel the same way after competing against those cars you just mentioned, because most of them are in the same BS class. When you can't even come close to beating an S2K you'll be wondering where that extra HP is. I don't mean this as a dig or insult in any way, but if I bought the car and the HP numbers weren't what they were supposed to be I would be pissed, especially if I was in autox and my car was placed based on stated HP that just isn't there.

Lastly, your car is not a Miata, it weighs 3k pounds, just because the lower HP Miatas can hang with the big boys sometimes does not mean you will.


Ike

 

didnt some guy say he slaughtered an S2k in his 8 in the s2k v rx-8 thread?

 

If you're talking straight line a properly driven S2K will take an RX-8 every time. If you're talking autox I will be amazed if you guys can hang with the S2Ks on a regular basis, hell, I'll trade my WRX in tomorrow if that happens :D

Ike

 

BENE!!

 

Wouldn't it be more enjoyable with more horsepower?


If you went to the store and bought a dozen really tasty cookies, they taste damn good but you only got 10 and paid for 12, wouldn't you be mad that you were shorted 2 cookies?


Ike

 

I think it's funny some of the most vocal people on the boards about the HP issue are non RX-8 drivers.

Anyway, we just arent getting upset over it because most people here are smart enough to realize that it WILL get resolved one way or another. So why spend countless hours talking about it and worrying? I for one would rather be out driving the car.

You got YOUR car for a set of reasons. AutoX seems to be one of them. I did not get my car for that reason. So we have different cars. Cant we just move on?

And the mileage thing I'm wodnering. I just got 96 miles from a quarter tank of gas. And that includes about an hour of stop and go traffic. Just DONT drive it like you stole it and it's not so bad at all.

 

No problem with the 8 except for the missing hp. IkeWRX and some others stated if correctly. I want that missing cookies that I paid for!
And since we had 4 Mazdas in our household history (2 rx-7 GXL and GL, 1 MX-6 and a Miata), I don't think I am biased am I? Also we owned 2 rx-7s before so knowing the gas characteristics of a rotary coming in, if I were to buy an rx-8 it wouldn't be an issue.

 

WOW 96 miles on 1/4 tank? I got 95 KM on a 1/4 tank and this was ALWAYS shifting at 2500rpm - 3000 rpm and 50Km of that was 80km/h city with no stopping.

Anyway, personally I don't care about the HP, this car is PLENTY fast for me. I'll probably never get to fully open it up, without going to jail.

And the ride is just superb, it truely is a cruising car.

Gas mileage kind of blows, but seems to be getting a little better.

 

That says it all.

The people most vocal about it are glad because it's one more category 'their car' will win over the RX-8 'on paper'.

I don't drive a spec sheet. I drive a car. I drive the RX-8. And I love it, paper deficiency and all. Refer to my other reply in the much longer thread.... it's really stupid to even debate it at this point until we have somebody that has pictures taken at 5000 miles doing a dyno. At this rate though, I'll be that person :p

 

"didnt some guy say he slaughtered an S2k in his 8 in the s2k v rx-8 thread?"

Having owned both, I can tell you that there is no way in Hell that could happen given two drivers of equal talent. The S2K wins easily. My problem with this fact is that it shouldn't be the case. If the RX8 delivered its advertised hp it would easily keep up with the likes of the Boxster and the S2000. I bought this car for many reasons and one was definitley the ability to let it rip on occasion.

The only acceptable cure from Mazda is an engine tweak to give me back my missing hp. If all they offer is a full refund or 5 years maintenance free, it'll take me all of a nonosecond to give the car back and wait for the '05.

 

Sorry but you're wrong.

If you had been around here 6 months ago, when we were debating straight line power, we bought forth the very accurate CarStats program to check the times.

The accuracy for this program matched well with other cars, so our members (Buger!) plugged in gearing ratios, weight, horsepower, torque, and all the other things needed, and came back with a similar time that's been given by your Car and Drivers and Road and Tracks.

The RX-8 will *not* be faster than the S2000. We debated this some time ago and especially since I have driven the S2000, I know it's not as fast as that.

So to assume immediately that you're 'missing horsepower' is really ludicrus until somebody displays some direct proof. Personally, my questions will be answered when Sport Compact Car dynos the RX-8. They will do it properly.

And if it winds up that the RX-8 is running in deficit of advertised power, then I'm either going to get a rebate on what I'm paying, or a power increase to the appropriate levels.

Either way, it's win-win. I don't see what everybody is complaining about.

 

I continue to be amazed by these comments... how can you really complain about poor fuel economy given the EPA numbers on the sticker?

There are others here saying that they are concerned about the HP because the sticker said they were getting 247; why is finding out you are getting around 16 MPG city surprising in a car with an EPA estimate of 18 MPG, especially given the disclaimer that an estimate of 18 MPG actually means that most cars with that estimate get somewhere between 16 and 20 MPG?

Yes, it's lower than the preproduction estimates, but the sticker was on the car when you bought it...

 

But at the same time I don't go shopping for cookies and buy the package that says it has 12 because it is the same price as a different brand that only has 10 in the pack. I buy it for the taste and the number of cookies is an afterthought.

Given that, I like most others here am sure Mazda will figure out the dyno results sooner or later; in the mean time I know what it felt like when I drove it and that's what's important to me, not a number on a spec sheet.

I can virtually guarantee that except for an on-ramp I would never, ever use the maximum HP available to me, and really whether it takes six or seven seconds to get to 60 doesn't make much of a difference to me as long as the car feels powerful doing it, and the feel compared with the sound of the rotary make the RX-8 what it is to me.

Do I own one yet? No, largely because my local dealership is clueless - I spoke to them about placing an order but wanted to know exactly how long it would take and they said they'd get back to me; that was two weeks ago - but the HP issue doesn't concern me one whit...

 

"If you had been around here 6 months ago, when we were debating straight line power, we bought forth the very accurate CarStats program to check the times."

Are you telling me that some computer program is saying that the RX8 should be faster than an S2000 in a straight line race? Did I read that right? If so, did they put in the claimed performance numbers from Mazda or the numbers that several dyno tests have come up with? I agree that on paper the RX8 should hold its own against the Boxster, S2000 and 350Z. The real world says different.

If you drove an S2000 then I take it you never owned an S2000. The VTEC engine gets its 2nd wind at 7,000 rpm and pulls your head into the seat. The RX8 is very polite up to 7,000 rpm and then, when you ask for more, it's simply not there to give it to you.


I'm really not railing against my car.....it's alot of fun to drive and is quite the head turner. I just want my 25 horses back. And while they're at it, insulate the cabin better from the engine heat and try to refrain from flooding the market with them.

 

I hate to call people stupid but Tomster... you really can't read.. allow me to help you though:

Quote:

The RX-8 will *not* be faster than the S2000. We debated this some time ago and especially since I have driven the S2000, I know it's not as fast as that.

Please read the entire post before you make stupid replies about something I have no intention of saying.

The S2000 is truly a superior performance car, but it's the livability while not taking away too much from the performance and handling that made the RX-8 a truly great buy.

 

I'd hate to sound like a jerk and I typically try to keep opinions to myself, but if anything I find current owners are being very defensive of their lack of HP/MPG rather than non-owners being "picky" because they'd like to own one. It's actually quite obvious from my perspective as a non-owner reading these threads. No, I don't own one, but I did test drive one and the lack of HP was noticable, taking into consideration it was a rotary. Before I get flamed, take note that I seriously tried several times to buy one. Thankfully it didn't work out because I'd be very pissed right now seeing MPG being so low and realising the missing HP from the test drive has so far not appeared. I'm not on this forum because of RX-8 envy, I'm here because I'm really hoping these issues are sorted out and the Mazda statistics become reality so I can order one.

Let's put this in perspective. We were all initially attracted to this car because it looks great, and handles great. We realised early on that the car would have reasonable OOMPH to back it up it's marketing and design intentions (0-60 of 6 seconds flat at a hard RPM launch). We were also willing to live with marginal fuel efficiency quotes because of the vehicle's sporting intentions. Don't kid yourselves, Mazda *did* market/price this car as a sports car to compete against the likes of WRX, 350z.

So now we have several examples of reasonable high mileage cars which are getting 0-60 in the mid six second range, very low RWHP numbers regardless of actual crank hp, and fuel efficiency below EPA (and IMO, those number are reachable on other models) - and some of you are saying it's fine but it cruises so well? Cruising cars are great, but go get a Mercedes C-coupe if you want comfort and refinement with little actual performance to back up the sporting appearance. Obviously those who are stating this are either trying to kid themselves out of disappointment, don't know what 250hp in a 3000 lbs chassis should feel like, or you didn't purchase the car for it's intended market (which means then that you really are quite content with the whole picture). 220hp in a 3000 lbs package will surely feel peppy, but once the novelty wears off, and more examples of "typical" mid sized V6 family sedans/mini vans/SUV match the 8's acceleration, your mind will change.

I'm not saying the missing HP won't appear - but until it does, getting 0-60 in 6.5 seconds *with* lousy gas mileage is very unimpressive. Having to wait 5000+ miles to switch maps? That's ridiculous, for some driver's that could be 1/2 a year of driving.

As for the poor MPG, some defend it by saying don't get a sports car then. Well, right now there's no proof of a 250hp sports car (dyno, 0-60), so why not bitch about it? Acura RSX can get 200hp with 24/31 MPG rating and similar 0-60 times/RWHP dyno numbers to current RX-8 examples. It's 2003-4 era guys, that kind of technology does and (for this price) should exist in the RX-8.

 

I'm going to reply here since I am at work and not really busy, but you really need to just read people's reasons for not getting into a huff. Once again a NON-owner is the most vocal bitching about an issue he has nothing to do with.

Relax already. We've stated before our reasons for not ranting about the issue here. Especially since this is not a Mazda sponsored forum. You want Mazda people to take notice? bitch at THEM. Not us. I am sure more people here than have stated so publicly have already contacted Mazdfa and their dealers about this. We come here to relax and have a good time, not listen to people who dont even own the car tell us how we are getting reamed. I personally know that conservative driving will give me almost 350 miles to a tank. I have measured this on MY car. So I know what I'm talking about, unlike people that dont own it. I also know that the car feel's just as good as when I thought it had more HP since I dont drive a little spec sheet. My car has not changed. Why should I be disapointed in it now? Because someone will get to 60MPH half a second faster than me? You really need something more important in your life to worry about.

Like bellybutton lint.

So please, can we just can this already? Give it at least another 2 weeks before every non-owner starts up again? How about that? Let us talk about how much we love the car instead.