Is the rotary on its way out?
#26
The way I see it the Rotary has 3 strikes against it.
1) Very poor fuel mileage.
2) Lack of power for fuel consumed.
3) Mazda's "who gives a ****" attitude towards customer support.
If the Rotary is to survive at least one if not two of the above problems need to be resolved.
1) Very poor fuel mileage.
2) Lack of power for fuel consumed.
3) Mazda's "who gives a ****" attitude towards customer support.
If the Rotary is to survive at least one if not two of the above problems need to be resolved.
#28
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
You always hear more about negatives online than you do positives. From that perspective, almost any car can have a scary number of issues.
#29
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This will be a learning experience for both Mazda and rx8 owners alike.
I'm confident that once these issues are resolved Mazda will have learned alot and take these lessons into consideration when building any future rotaries. Just my .02
I'm confident that once these issues are resolved Mazda will have learned alot and take these lessons into consideration when building any future rotaries. Just my .02
#30
Originally Posted by kartweb
Personally I'd like to see the 2.3 Turbo in the 8. The CX7 power is so sweet I would rather the 8 have one - along with moving the transmission to the rear to balance the weight.
Blech. If you pull out the rotary you better also pull the RX-8 emblem off the car. Could we call it an MX-8?
#31
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Originally Posted by Raptor75
The way I see it the Rotary has 3 strikes against it.
1) Very poor fuel mileage.
2) Lack of power for fuel consumed.
3) Mazda's "who gives a ****" attitude towards customer support.
If the Rotary is to survive at least one if not two of the above problems need to be resolved.
1) Very poor fuel mileage.
2) Lack of power for fuel consumed.
3) Mazda's "who gives a ****" attitude towards customer support.
If the Rotary is to survive at least one if not two of the above problems need to be resolved.
I dont think its Mazda but rather the dealers themselves. You have Tech's and Reps who know little to nothing about the Rotary or even the car itself other than the fact its a Mazda. Then to top it off you have some that are informed and helpful but they arent plentiful enough.
#32
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Originally Posted by Deslock
SethSpeed didn't claim that it was superior in every way: he wrote "The Wankel engine is vastly superior to the traditional piston engine in many ways", which is true. Its poor fuel economy prevents it from being used in anything but sports cars and race cars.
The rotary is supposed to be so great because it has so few moving parts, but those parts seem to give way a hell of a lot more than established reliable piston engines. Repairs on the rotary also seem to be a hell of a lot more expensive than typical piston engine problems. Every time something is wrong with a piston engine you don't need a full rebuild and/or new engine. Also, find me a piston engine that has flooding problems. Flooding problems that leave you stranded and having to have your car towed to the dealer.
This may sound like I'm bashing but I'm not. I like the rotary as an idea, I like the fact that Mazda has the guts to keep making it. I like driving rotary powered cars. However, I'm too paranoid to ever have one in a car that I have to depend on. I'll keep enjoying rotary engines in other people's cars and stick with my rock solid piston engines.
#33
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Originally Posted by Clavius
To my limited knowledge #2 happened because of the US goverment and specificly CA emissions. They had to reflash the cars before they went to showroom floors. I could definatly be wrong on this but I do remember it as being stated as why we dont have the HP orginaly stated.
I dont think its Mazda but rather the dealers themselves. You have Tech's and Reps who know little to nothing about the Rotary or even the car itself other than the fact its a Mazda. Then to top it off you have some that are informed and helpful but they arent plentiful enough.
I dont think its Mazda but rather the dealers themselves. You have Tech's and Reps who know little to nothing about the Rotary or even the car itself other than the fact its a Mazda. Then to top it off you have some that are informed and helpful but they arent plentiful enough.
#34
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Originally Posted by Ike
That was why they claim they had to lower the HP. Which I've always found a little hard to believe. The new emissions standards weren't all the sudden sprung on Mazda at port, they knew about them well in advance.
#35
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Originally Posted by kartweb
Personally I'd like to see the 2.3 Turbo in the 8. The CX7 power is so sweet I would rather the 8 have one - along with moving the transmission to the rear to balance the weight.
An LS1 weighs about 50lbs more then a rotary (longblock) from a 2nd/3rd gen RX-7. I'm pretty sure with all the electronics, and odd intake manifold combinations, the 2.3L Turbo would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the RENESIS.
#37
I actually agree with a lot of what Ike has said in this thread.
But I have to also disagree with his conclusion. I think when the dust settles, we'll find that most people will have no issues with their engine. It is hard to be the BEST of anything. The RX-8 isn't the end all of cars. Some people on here think 30k cars are expensive, and at that price they should expect highest quality parts and service. In reality 30k is just an average price tag. But while it's not expensive, you do get a unique vehicle. So while a factory turbocharged WRX is faster than a factory RX-8, I happen to think the 8 is far more unique. I bought my RX-8 for that quality. I still love my car, and I have no regrets.
But I have to also disagree with his conclusion. I think when the dust settles, we'll find that most people will have no issues with their engine. It is hard to be the BEST of anything. The RX-8 isn't the end all of cars. Some people on here think 30k cars are expensive, and at that price they should expect highest quality parts and service. In reality 30k is just an average price tag. But while it's not expensive, you do get a unique vehicle. So while a factory turbocharged WRX is faster than a factory RX-8, I happen to think the 8 is far more unique. I bought my RX-8 for that quality. I still love my car, and I have no regrets.
#38
Originally Posted by AdRoCK3217
Balance the weight...of what?!
An LS1 weighs about 50lbs more then a rotary (longblock) from a 2nd/3rd gen RX-7. I'm pretty sure with all the electronics, and odd intake manifold combinations, the 2.3L Turbo would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the RENESIS.
An LS1 weighs about 50lbs more then a rotary (longblock) from a 2nd/3rd gen RX-7. I'm pretty sure with all the electronics, and odd intake manifold combinations, the 2.3L Turbo would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the RENESIS.
The MazdaSpeed6 has a worse F/R weight distribution than even the V6 Mazda6s does (and the Duratec is not know to be a light engine). This is despite the fact that it has even more weight in the rear what with all its' drivetrain hardware back there that the regular 6s doesn't have.
#39
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Originally Posted by mysql101
I actually agree with a lot of what Ike has said in this thread.
But I have to also disagree with his conclusion. I think when the dust settles, we'll find that most people will have no issues with their engine. It is hard to be the BEST of anything. The RX-8 isn't the end all of cars. Some people on here think 30k cars are expensive, and at that price they should expect highest quality parts and service. In reality 30k is just an average price tag. But while it's not expensive, you do get a unique vehicle. So while a factory turbocharged WRX is faster than a factory RX-8, I happen to think the 8 is far more unique. I bought my RX-8 for that quality. I still love my car, and I have no regrets.
But I have to also disagree with his conclusion. I think when the dust settles, we'll find that most people will have no issues with their engine. It is hard to be the BEST of anything. The RX-8 isn't the end all of cars. Some people on here think 30k cars are expensive, and at that price they should expect highest quality parts and service. In reality 30k is just an average price tag. But while it's not expensive, you do get a unique vehicle. So while a factory turbocharged WRX is faster than a factory RX-8, I happen to think the 8 is far more unique. I bought my RX-8 for that quality. I still love my car, and I have no regrets.
#41
Originally Posted by Ike
That was why they claim they had to lower the HP. Which I've always found a little hard to believe. The new emissions standards weren't all the sudden sprung on Mazda at port, they knew about them well in advance.
Tim
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Originally Posted by mysql101
Nah, I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I agreed with you - the car is nice, but it's not *the best* but how many of us really own *the best* of anything?
![Cwm27](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/cwm27.gif)
#44
Originally Posted by BlueSky
If this becomes Mazda's last rotary that would mean good news for all us 8 owners right? Wouldn't it make the 8 a collector's car?
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Originally Posted by BlueSky
If this becomes Mazda's last rotary that would mean good news for all us 8 owners right? Wouldn't it make the 8 a collector's car?
#47
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Originally Posted by BlueSky
Well it could be in our lifetimes. I mean look at the Mustang. So maybe 30-40 years down the road?
But yeah, by then I'll 100% not have this car.
But yeah, by then I'll 100% not have this car.
#48
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Originally Posted by BlueSky
If this becomes Mazda's last rotary that would mean good news for all us 8 owners right? Wouldn't it make the 8 a collector's car?
#49
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Now that Mazda is owned by a large corporation struggling mightily, I would not be surprised if the rotary is not developed further. The bean counters would probably direct Mazda to put R&D dollars into engines that can be used throughout the line.
#50
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The rotary engine isn't going anywhere, Mazda has to much invested in it. I think that the next iteration in a all aluminum direct injection configuration will solve many of the issues. It will be substantially lighter, smaller and nearly as fuel efficicent as a piston engine of similar displacement. I have SAE paper thats show the efficiency of a DI rotary, and it makes a much bigger difference going from port to DI for a rotary than a piston.
The NA rotary in its current form has its disadvantages, but in a hybrid system it makes alot of sense from a weight/packaging/powerband standpoint.
Ike is partly right, the PR battle was uphill to start, and this is not going to help, but how Mazda handles it will greatly effect the outcome. Mazda is making money hand over fist at the moment for their size, I think they will make it right.
The NA rotary in its current form has its disadvantages, but in a hybrid system it makes alot of sense from a weight/packaging/powerband standpoint.
Ike is partly right, the PR battle was uphill to start, and this is not going to help, but how Mazda handles it will greatly effect the outcome. Mazda is making money hand over fist at the moment for their size, I think they will make it right.