Raptor75

The way I see it the Rotary has 3 strikes against it.

1) Very poor fuel mileage.
2) Lack of power for fuel consumed.
3) Mazda's "who gives a ****" attitude towards customer support.

If the Rotary is to survive at least one if not two of the above problems need to be resolved.

TKE

The only RX-7 that failed sales wise was the FD. It had to do way more with the over saturated $40k+ sports car segment then the car being rotary.

Ike

The worst part about this whole thing is the story of how Mazda screwed up again with the rotary is going to spread like wildfire throughout every car forum on the net. It WILL scare some buyers away, as well as possible buyers for future rotary cars, and the sales for the RX-8 are already pretty bad. It's going to give the rotary yet another blackeye and may sway Mazda to just give it up. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'll be shocked if there is a next gen RX-8 or rotary powered car. If it happens I think Mazda is going to have to make some sort of breakthrough with alternative fuels or greatly improved fuel efficiency.

tiggerlee

This will be a learning experience for both Mazda and rx8 owners alike.
I'm confident that once these issues are resolved Mazda will have learned alot and take these lessons into consideration when building any future rotaries. Just my .02

OCMarsh

Blech. If you pull out the rotary you better also pull the RX-8 emblem off the car. Could we call it an MX-8?

Clavius

To my limited knowledge #2 happened because of the US goverment and specificly CA emissions. They had to reflash the cars before they went to showroom floors. I could definatly be wrong on this but I do remember it as being stated as why we dont have the HP orginaly stated.

I dont think its Mazda but rather the dealers themselves. You have Tech's and Reps who know little to nothing about the Rotary or even the car itself other than the fact its a Mazda. Then to top it off you have some that are informed and helpful but they arent plentiful enough.

Ike

Give me the many ways it's superior... It's not much lighter than many engines with similar output. It consumes more fuel than engines with similar outout. It's more sensitive to detonation and heat than most piston engines. It's claimed to have a lower GC, but compared to some of the inline/flat 4s I'm not so sure. Even if it does have the lowest CG, that's not enough to make up for the negatives. It revs high, but there are plenty of piston engines capable of revving just as high. Most manufacturers don't tune the engines to rev that high because it gives pitiful lowend and powerbands (see Celica, RX-8, S2K).

The rotary is supposed to be so great because it has so few moving parts, but those parts seem to give way a hell of a lot more than established reliable piston engines. Repairs on the rotary also seem to be a hell of a lot more expensive than typical piston engine problems. Every time something is wrong with a piston engine you don't need a full rebuild and/or new engine. Also, find me a piston engine that has flooding problems. Flooding problems that leave you stranded and having to have your car towed to the dealer.

This may sound like I'm bashing but I'm not. I like the rotary as an idea, I like the fact that Mazda has the guts to keep making it. I like driving rotary powered cars. However, I'm too paranoid to ever have one in a car that I have to depend on. I'll keep enjoying rotary engines in other people's cars and stick with my rock solid piston engines.

Ike

That was why they claim they had to lower the HP. Which I've always found a little hard to believe. The new emissions standards weren't all the sudden sprung on Mazda at port, they knew about them well in advance.

Clavius

Yeah I hear ya why I stated "limited knowledge" didnt wanna come off as I'm stating biblical fact lol... btw what are the Euro/Japan spec's hp wise for the 8? same or different than us.

AdRoCK3217

Balance the weight...of what?!

An LS1 weighs about 50lbs more then a rotary (longblock) from a 2nd/3rd gen RX-7. I'm pretty sure with all the electronics, and odd intake manifold combinations, the 2.3L Turbo would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the RENESIS.

Razz1

mysql101

I actually agree with a lot of what Ike has said in this thread.

But I have to also disagree with his conclusion. I think when the dust settles, we'll find that most people will have no issues with their engine. It is hard to be the BEST of anything. The RX-8 isn't the end all of cars. Some people on here think 30k cars are expensive, and at that price they should expect highest quality parts and service. In reality 30k is just an average price tag. But while it's not expensive, you do get a unique vehicle. So while a factory turbocharged WRX is faster than a factory RX-8, I happen to think the 8 is far more unique. I bought my RX-8 for that quality. I still love my car, and I have no regrets.

Sigma

Doubt that.

The MazdaSpeed6 has a worse F/R weight distribution than even the V6 Mazda6s does (and the Duratec is not know to be a light engine). This is despite the fact that it has even more weight in the rear what with all its' drivetrain hardware back there that the regular 6s doesn't have.

Ike

Don't contrive what I said into meaning that the Renesis/rotary is some piece of crap motor. Obviously there are some issues with it, but I see no reason why most of the owners won't have relatively troublefree ownership. However, the rotary already gets a bad wrap, and this recall is going to give it an even worse wrap no matter how many engines Mazda ends up replacing. We'll never know how many they replace though, just as we have no clue how many they've replaced to date.

mysql101

Nah, I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I agreed with you - the car is nice, but it's not *the best* but how many of us really own *the best* of anything?

Tim Benton

It's getting easier and easier to see the 280 and 250 hp were never there to begin with, so the reflashing at the port doesn't hold weight anymore. If it did, then why isn't the rechipped RB ecu WITH mods still not making it? The 280, yeah when they were spinning it to 10K maybe.

Tim

Ike

I own the best cigarette lighter in the world! Sadly it's broken right now Oh, and I own the best 1/12th scale RC pancar in the world, but that's mainly because I have all of them. I need to decide which is the best. But it's one of them damnit!

BlueSky

If this becomes Mazda's last rotary that would mean good news for all us 8 owners right? Wouldn't it make the 8 a collector's car?

Sigma

Only maybe for those lucky few that had the foresight to buy an RX-8, put it in a garage, cover it, and never drive it.

Ike

No, it's a mass produced car and is not rare. If it's ever a collectors car it won't be one in any of our lifetimes.

BlueSky

Well it could be in our lifetimes. I mean look at the Mustang. So maybe 30-40 years down the road?

But yeah, by then I'll 100% not have this car.

Ike

The only older mustangs that are worth anything are the very rare versions of it that have numbers matching and are in pristine condition. The average 30+ year old mustang if still on the road is little more than a worthless piece of crap.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

No. a CYM FD? yes. and a few select colors, year/model of FD's, yes because they only made a few hundred. but an RX8? no way.

CarAndDriver

Now that Mazda is owned by a large corporation struggling mightily, I would not be surprised if the rotary is not developed further. The bean counters would probably direct Mazda to put R&D dollars into engines that can be used throughout the line.

brillo

The rotary engine isn't going anywhere, Mazda has to much invested in it. I think that the next iteration in a all aluminum direct injection configuration will solve many of the issues. It will be substantially lighter, smaller and nearly as fuel efficicent as a piston engine of similar displacement. I have SAE paper thats show the efficiency of a DI rotary, and it makes a much bigger difference going from port to DI for a rotary than a piston.

The NA rotary in its current form has its disadvantages, but in a hybrid system it makes alot of sense from a weight/packaging/powerband standpoint.

Ike is partly right, the PR battle was uphill to start, and this is not going to help, but how Mazda handles it will greatly effect the outcome. Mazda is making money hand over fist at the moment for their size, I think they will make it right.