RPM's the thing
#51
Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
You can compare them...sure, but just make sure when they start adding Turbo's & SC's to the 8 that the owners of those Turbo's & SC cars don't start saying...sure, it's because it has a Turbo. It goes both ways...
True, but for the common person looking at a RX8...9 out 10 would say it's a sports car. It seems a little snobish to call a Mustang, a GTO, and the Ferrari 460 GT (yes I know what GT means) not a sports car because they have 2+2 seating.
I would love to hear what YOU think is a sports car...I would love to hear it really. What does the RX8 lack that DOES NOT make it a sports car. Please explain...
Note: Sorry that when I say FACT it bothers you, but again I would love to hear the argument WHY the RX8 is not a sports car
Don't think I don't like the 8, or that I don't still want one. I think it makes a great daily driver. It's got good performance, stylish, room for four, a nice list of amenities etc. I just don't think it's a true sports car.
Last edited by BlueEyes; 04-14-2005 at 08:47 PM.
#52
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Originally Posted by Umbra
I consider the 8 a lot more of a sports car than an sti or an evo or a mustang or a gto.
To me a sports car follows the tradition of the early british and italian sports cars, MG's, early ferrari's, triumphs, porche. They require some finese when driving, they require learning how to get the best out of the particular car, they require more maintenace. Stomping on the gas and just expecting the car to do all the work isn't what a sports car is about, turbo's and superchargers are not what a sports car is about, horsepower and torque are not what a sports car is about, 0-60 isn't what it's about. Handling, finese, fun, style, and looks are what it's about.
[much good stuff snipped... ]
Modern sports cars? Miata, RX8, lotus elise, corvette(borderline), s2000, 350z, boxter, beemer z cars, mr2 spyder, etc.
To me a sports car follows the tradition of the early british and italian sports cars, MG's, early ferrari's, triumphs, porche. They require some finese when driving, they require learning how to get the best out of the particular car, they require more maintenace. Stomping on the gas and just expecting the car to do all the work isn't what a sports car is about, turbo's and superchargers are not what a sports car is about, horsepower and torque are not what a sports car is about, 0-60 isn't what it's about. Handling, finese, fun, style, and looks are what it's about.
[much good stuff snipped... ]
Modern sports cars? Miata, RX8, lotus elise, corvette(borderline), s2000, 350z, boxter, beemer z cars, mr2 spyder, etc.
Bravo!
1.3L
#53
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Blue you danced around almost everything I asked you, what is your definition of a sports car?
Let’s stick to this topic please, we can discuss GOD when ever you want.
Note: I can’t resist…I can’t present GOD as opinion…but I don’t force you to agree. Disagree and call it my opinion…don’t get bitter about it…
I guess my “opinion” of what a sports car is…is very general while yours is very specific. So, please explain…what is a sports car in your opinion?
I don’t think you don’t like the 8 and I know the 8 is not a perfect car, but I just don’t understand people saying it’s not a sports car. But…you know what, we are argueing titles…I can say the RX8 is a great FLURflung…what the heck, it’s just a title so the only thing I want to know is what YOU think is a sports car.
I wont argue titles anymore…
It does bother me. Every post you make whether about cars or god claims your opinion to be the way it is.
Note: I can’t resist…I can’t present GOD as opinion…but I don’t force you to agree. Disagree and call it my opinion…don’t get bitter about it…
I guess my “opinion” of what a sports car is…is very general while yours is very specific. So, please explain…what is a sports car in your opinion?
I don’t think you don’t like the 8 and I know the 8 is not a perfect car, but I just don’t understand people saying it’s not a sports car. But…you know what, we are argueing titles…I can say the RX8 is a great FLURflung…what the heck, it’s just a title so the only thing I want to know is what YOU think is a sports car.
I wont argue titles anymore…
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You know what's really funny about this thread is that arguments like this have been going on for as long as cars have been raced. I don't go back quite that far, but, I can tell you that I lurked this forum for several months before going to a Mazda dealer in November of 03 to check things out.
The salesman started by telling me that I would have to rev it a lot. I politely asked him to let me drive it for myself. My decision to purchase was made within the first 5 minutes of the first test drive. I loved the 8 immediately because it reminded me of the 60's Triumphs, Austins, MGs and Fiats that I grew up with. Who cares what the hp and torque ratings were. To me the car embodied the spirit of the cars that I loved to drive.
So keep pondering the philosophical questions about what a sports car is or isn't. Mazda did their homework. They got me to part with my hard earned money because of the emotion that the feel and look of the car creates. Emotions can't be measured on a spec sheet but emotion sells cars.
The salesman started by telling me that I would have to rev it a lot. I politely asked him to let me drive it for myself. My decision to purchase was made within the first 5 minutes of the first test drive. I loved the 8 immediately because it reminded me of the 60's Triumphs, Austins, MGs and Fiats that I grew up with. Who cares what the hp and torque ratings were. To me the car embodied the spirit of the cars that I loved to drive.
So keep pondering the philosophical questions about what a sports car is or isn't. Mazda did their homework. They got me to part with my hard earned money because of the emotion that the feel and look of the car creates. Emotions can't be measured on a spec sheet but emotion sells cars.
#55
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
Show me a ferrari with 155 ft-lb of torque
oh yhea....and it gets 11 city and 16 highwas (EPA) and costs about ten times more>>>>
Last edited by kantonm; 04-15-2005 at 01:42 AM.
#56
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Originally Posted by kantonm
How about a 2003 360 Modena with 400hp and only 275 ft-lb of torque....my point was that torque is NOT THE ONLY thing that makes a car "FAST" but if you want to try to pick out one statement and try to make me look stupid then there you go....high HP and low Torque....but fast car.....my point was that most high reving cars are lacking in torque>>>> if you dont like low torque, gas mileage or oil comsumption then sell the car and stop complaining!
oh yhea....and it gets 11 city and 16 highwas (EPA) and costs about ten times more>>>>
oh yhea....and it gets 11 city and 16 highwas (EPA) and costs about ten times more>>>>
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Originally Posted by Umbra
To me the sti and evo are rally cars not sports cars. Rally cars have decent performance but are butt ugly, a sports car has to have a certain look to it, and that look isn't a grocery getter with a big wing and a hood scoup. The evo and sti look like grocery getters that someone slapped a wing, hood, and bigger wheels on. They might be a sports cars if someone would fix their looks, simply put they have no class.
To me a sports car follows the tradition of the early british and italian sports cars, MG's, early ferrari's, triumphs, porche. They require some finese when driving, they require learning how to get the best out of the particular car, they require more maintenace. Stomping on the gas and just expecting the car to do all the work isn't what a sports car is about, turbo's and superchargers are not what a sports car is about, horsepower and torque are not what a sports car is about, 0-60 isn't what it's about. Handling, finese, fun, style, and looks are what it's about.
To me a sports car follows the tradition of the early british and italian sports cars, MG's, early ferrari's, triumphs, porche. They require some finese when driving, they require learning how to get the best out of the particular car, they require more maintenace. Stomping on the gas and just expecting the car to do all the work isn't what a sports car is about, turbo's and superchargers are not what a sports car is about, horsepower and torque are not what a sports car is about, 0-60 isn't what it's about. Handling, finese, fun, style, and looks are what it's about.
I think you really hit the nail on the head with regards to looks. Indeed, sports cars should have a distinctive look to them that screams exotic. Without a doubt, that is one of the major things that drew me to the RX-8 as far as looks were concerned...it just looked unbelievably exotic considering its price point. And it's not something that's just skin deep either...certain minor accents about the car also give it an exotic feel, and certainly brings to mind certain other cars that cost way more. The lights for instance...I can recognize an RX-8 from far away at night because it has a very distinctive headlight/fog light configuration that looks like fangs. Not surprising then when some people confuse it with a Viper. Likewise, when I got a good luck at the understated round taillights, it immediately brought to mind the Ferrari 360 Modena. With the RX-8, it really feels like you're getting much more than you paid for.
I think Mazda really knows what they're doing when it comes to sports cars. They've got the looks down, and they play the "emotion of the drive" card very well. The RX-7 FD just screamed exotic sports car with its sleek, curvy body and agressive styling. Likewise with the RX-8. You just simply don't see such form and function duplicated among the other mainstream car manufacturers, new or old, high end exotics aside.
#59
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Ok, but the RX-8 is neither fast nor torquey, so now what?
The Miata really exemplifies the question: despite being underpowered by modern standards, most still love it for its traditional sports car feel (which the RX8 also has, even though its not as pure as the Miata).
#60
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Ok, but the RX-8 is neither fast nor torquey, so now what?
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Originally Posted by Umbra
I consider the 8 a lot more of a sports car than an sti or an evo or a mustang or a gto.
To me the sti and evo are rally cars not sports cars. Rally cars have decent performance but are butt ugly, a sports car has to have a certain look to it, and that look isn't a grocery getter with a big wing and a hood scoup.
To me the sti and evo are rally cars not sports cars. Rally cars have decent performance but are butt ugly, a sports car has to have a certain look to it, and that look isn't a grocery getter with a big wing and a hood scoup.
#62
Originally Posted by cas2themoe
You are so full of it.................. Not Fast? What is your definition of Fast Anyway's? Are you drunk and cocky when you write these things? Have you even driven a RX8 before? Your WRX would get its *** handled to it around a track against a RX8!
Watch it and weep..
You also don't wanna say "Your" WRX. Some of us have mods
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If you find that to be an example of what the RX-8 is capable of then your dreaming. Who knows who was driving the 8 vs the other cars? You make a big assumption all those drivers know how to drive their car well.
Facts support the claim that the 8 is a good handling car that excels well in the upper RPM range, on that track there is little reason why the 8 should do that poorly besides driver error. But I'm sure you already knew that.
Facts support the claim that the 8 is a good handling car that excels well in the upper RPM range, on that track there is little reason why the 8 should do that poorly besides driver error. But I'm sure you already knew that.
#64
Originally Posted by kantonm
How about a 2003 360 Modena with 400hp and only 275 ft-lb of torque....my point was that torque is NOT THE ONLY thing that makes a car "FAST" but if you want to try to pick out one statement and try to make me look stupid then there you go....high HP and low Torque....but fast car.....my point was that most high reving cars are lacking in torque>>>> if you dont like low torque, gas mileage or oil comsumption then sell the car and stop complaining!
oh yhea....and it gets 11 city and 16 highwas (EPA) and costs about ten times more>>>>
oh yhea....and it gets 11 city and 16 highwas (EPA) and costs about ten times more>>>>
Oh yhea...and your comparison of a ferrari's fuel consumption to the 8's is equally unsupportive of your arguement.
#65
Originally Posted by cas2themoe
You are so full of it.................. Not Fast? What is your definition of Fast Anyway's? Are you drunk and cocky when you write these things? Have you even driven a RX8 before? Your WRX would get its *** handled to it around a track against a RX8!
#66
Originally Posted by beachdog
You know what's really funny about this thread is that arguments like this have been going on for as long as cars have been raced. I don't go back quite that far, but, I can tell you that I lurked this forum for several months before going to a Mazda dealer in November of 03 to check things out.
The salesman started by telling me that I would have to rev it a lot. I politely asked him to let me drive it for myself. My decision to purchase was made within the first 5 minutes of the first test drive. I loved the 8 immediately because it reminded me of the 60's Triumphs, Austins, MGs and Fiats that I grew up with. Who cares what the hp and torque ratings were. To me the car embodied the spirit of the cars that I loved to drive.
So keep pondering the philosophical questions about what a sports car is or isn't. Mazda did their homework. They got me to part with my hard earned money because of the emotion that the feel and look of the car creates. Emotions can't be measured on a spec sheet but emotion sells cars.
The salesman started by telling me that I would have to rev it a lot. I politely asked him to let me drive it for myself. My decision to purchase was made within the first 5 minutes of the first test drive. I loved the 8 immediately because it reminded me of the 60's Triumphs, Austins, MGs and Fiats that I grew up with. Who cares what the hp and torque ratings were. To me the car embodied the spirit of the cars that I loved to drive.
So keep pondering the philosophical questions about what a sports car is or isn't. Mazda did their homework. They got me to part with my hard earned money because of the emotion that the feel and look of the car creates. Emotions can't be measured on a spec sheet but emotion sells cars.
A good post lost in a lot of d*ck-waving.
#67
Originally Posted by Rupes
If you find that to be an example of what the RX-8 is capable of then your dreaming. Who knows who was driving the 8 vs the other cars? You make a big assumption all those drivers know how to drive their car well.
Facts support the claim that the 8 is a good handling car that excels well in the upper RPM range, on that track there is little reason why the 8 should do that poorly besides driver error. But I'm sure you already knew that.
Facts support the claim that the 8 is a good handling car that excels well in the upper RPM range, on that track there is little reason why the 8 should do that poorly besides driver error. But I'm sure you already knew that.
The problem was not that the car handled poorly. The problem was that it was getting creamed in the parts that weren't as twisty. Torque matters on a racetrack too. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to push the gas pedal down. The car was doing OK in the curves. No driver in the world can magically give their car 100 extra hp.
Your argument is hilarious. "It's a good handling car, so it MUST be good on a track, it's GOT to be the driver." Or maybe it's that the S2000, Integra Type-R, Skyline (G35) coupe and WRX are all faster around a racetrack because of their other attributes
#68
Originally Posted by BlueEyes
A lot of people seem to get upset round these parts because others have differing opinions.
#69
"There was no reason for it to perform like it did, I'm glad you agree with me"
Yes there was a reason. It's slower than all the other cars in the comparison (except the Miata).
john
Yes there was a reason. It's slower than all the other cars in the comparison (except the Miata).
john
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BlueEyes and Ike have some secret grudge against the 8. I have no idea why. They have seen what the RX8 can do given equal drivers. Especially through the Topgear Video where its the same exact driver. And Don't even dare say he doesn't have any skill on that track because you would be lying to yourself. Same lap time as a M3 and 350Z, but you still insist on calling the RX8 slow? This baffles me
#72
Originally Posted by Rotario
Not to go terribly off-topic, Blue Eyes, but at least one other person in addition to me has asked you what you consider to be a "sports car." You haven't responded to either inquiry. So do you know what a sports car is, or do you just not have an opinion (ha!)?
Last edited by BlueEyes; 04-15-2005 at 12:28 PM.
#73
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
When did I call the 8 slow? I have no grudge, I want one, bad!!
#74
A piece of me dies everytime I say I own a solara
I've driven a lot of cars from full race prepped BMWs, to Formula 2000 cars, to Ferraris, Porsches, you name it basically. I think I am justified in my opinions.
I've driven a lot of cars from full race prepped BMWs, to Formula 2000 cars, to Ferraris, Porsches, you name it basically. I think I am justified in my opinions.
Last edited by BlueEyes; 04-15-2005 at 12:41 PM.
#75
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
I don't really have a concrete definition of a "sports car", I think that is being re-written these days, at least in a physical sense. The emotional aspects of it have been mentioned by other people. I only said the 8 wasn't my idea of a true sports car, and I have a physical definition for that which it doesn't fit.
I hate to say this but looking at this statement proves that you have not yet convinced anyone that the 8 isn't a sports car. :p
btw I understand what you mean by being a pure sports car it must have no power options,2 doors, sunroof, ect. but show me a pure sports car that is truly pure nowadayz.