This post has gotten far too civilized... :p

I have been driving an RX-8 for the past three months so I know how it behaves.
However, it is going back to Mazda on the repurchase offer. Please read the loong thread in the Tech Garage section about canzoomer's conclusions for my reason.

For the past month I also have an Evo in my garage, so I know how it behaves as well.
You can argue about looks all you want, but when it comes to a personal preference, the Evo today is a better car for me than today's RX-8. Hopefully, Mazda will fix the ECU problem that canzoomer has spent weeks proving is the cause of the low power and mileage. At that time, in MY opinion, the two cars will be equivalent on everyday performance.

So for all you Evo bashers, I have driven both long enough to have an informed opinion and have voted with my wallet for the Evo. Your mileage may vary :-).
For the originator of the thread, please drive all three cars (STi, Evo and RX-8), then go home and think about what you like about each. All three are fine cars and you won't regret either purchase. It just depends what you are willing to trade for what.

All right, let the flames begin.

no matter what canzoomer proves about ECU, the numbers are the same. 0-60 in 5.9 and 1/4 mile in 14.5.

Check the competition forum for proof.

Not true. The numbers were on 100 octane race gas and a Japanese spec ECU.

I don't think it was a Japanese spec ECU but it was on race gas which showed more HP on the Dyno. Regardless those numbers fall far short of what the STi and EVO are capable of.

Ike

P.S. I was just kidding about this post being too civilized :D

Where does he say its a JSpec ECU? I dont see that. How would he get that? He believes with 100 octane he can maybe get 14.2 seconds. He got 14.6 with a major error. In time, more and more people who actually know how to drive are gonna hit the track and all get mag numbers and you'll be drivin youre slightly faster but extremely ugly turbo-charged econobox.

Well the STi numbers are falling far short of what many american muscle cars are capable of.

1-1.5 sec in the quarter mile is NOT slightly faster, in the quarter miles that's huge.

Name me one car car under 50K american or otherwise (stock) that will outrun the STi in the 1/4 mile other than the 03 Cobra. If you don't know there are a few people running very high 12s stock, and a others running 13.1 and 13 flat.

Ike

I saw rxdaniel's numbers and they were in the mid-15's. JudgeIto's seemed to be based on indicated speed with race gas. No time slips posted there. The Jspec ECU was for the pre-production press cars, not the unverified, setl-timed, red-light to red-light, speedometer-measured posts RussellP is presenting as evidence.

I'll believe the meticulous canzoomer, thank you. RussellP, I believe you read the entire thread at the competition forum; how come you presented only your side of the argument without the qualifications that are rife there? Another "fair and balanced" viewpoint, no doubt.

It was rxdaniel's first time on a track and he got 15.2.

When a turbo is available for the 8 there will be no advantage in the evo. And a turbo is inevitable.

Once again you prove you know little about modded cars. And comparing a modded car to a stock car is just stupid. Take the same amount you put into a turbo for the 8 and put it into an EVO or an STi and you still lose by a large margin.

RussellP, do you own an RX-8 or are you just culling others' opinions on this forum and presenting them as your own? Or is it a 15 minute test drive that is the basis of your informed opinion?

I own an rx8, wanker

Ike, you spoke too soon :P


Guy, keep it civil- this thread has come very close to being closed several times now, and it's heading in the wrong direction again.

The new up and coming GTR has been pushed back to 2007, I am very sad about that news.

BTW some of the fastest GTRs are still twin Turbo. For example the Top Secret Car: http://www.topsecretjpn.com/aerokit/34R/Engineroom.jpg

I have to agree with you on that.

Maybe no advantage in straight-line acceleration. Not on handling and breaking the Evo is still better.

Power without control is useless

Very sad news indeed, and yes there still are some very very fast TTs out there.

Ike

Ops, after looking at the photo closely I think what I thought was the second turbo is actually the exhaust side of the turbine. I thought I remember Top Secret had Twin Turbo, they might have changed their set up.

All I know is a lot of the sub 10 sec Skylines out there are large single HKS/Garrett turbos. Though there are probably some TTS out there running about as fast.

Ike

Sorry I had to share this, it has nothing to do with the topic but I can't resist.

http://www.donguri.sakura.ne.jp/~pow...y/s301/005.jpg

More pics here: http://www.donguri.sakura.ne.jp/~pow...s301/index.htm

Heh that's pretty sick. Engine swaps on the old Z's are fairly common. I've got a video of a 280Z with a LT1 swap outrunning a Gixxer 600 from a stop.

If I remember correctly the GTR = Twin Turbo (at least up to R33 body style when I left) GTS-T= Single Turbo GTS-t2.5 was either bigger engine single turbo or all wheel drive single turbo and GTs was the non-turbo. You couldn't tell the difference between the GTR and GTS-t if the emblems were changed (very common) other than performance and looking at the engine.

Yes the GTR is a TT, however much like the Supra TT many people get a larger aftermarket single turbo to replace the stock turbos.

GT-R only came with AWD, it has a different front grill and some other difference.

Yeah I forgot the AWD feature. Man since we've been going back and forth with this I have been quite curious of the Evo and the STi. I see a lot of the WRXs but how can you tell which one is the STi? I only ask because I live right by a Sub dealer and there are a ton of wrxs. Also the mitsu dealer here has no Evos. I really want to drive one at least the new ones to see how they compare to the J-spec models

From the outside the easiest difference between the Wrx and Sti is the much bigger hood scoop, gold brembo brake calipers, and especially the huge picnic table wing :)

STi badging, if it has bugeyes it's not an STi, though might not be an STi if it has the new headlights... Some people (especially before you could get an STi in the US) will add STi badging to a WRX and dress it up with JDM STi parts, both performance and appearance. Probably the best way to tell is the wheels and the Brembos. The hoodscoop is a pretty common replacement on the WRX and there are certainly more than a few regular WRXs with the STi scoop and wing and vice versa. Quite a few STi people have been swapping STi trunks for regular WRX trunks which is what I will do should I ever own one. If you can get close to the car the interior is the biggest giveaway, the blue trim and red STi dials in particular. Now that the STis are actually out many of the people that had STi badges on their cars have removed them so the badges are fairly reliable unless you live in a certain... shall we say ricier areas. But then you've got all the people that debadge everything which is also very very common :p

Ike

Brembos, on Evo and STI.

Hi,

for me it's not a question. The 8 for the looks and it's uniqueness.

And for the price... for us in Hungary the price of a HP 8 with lot's of stuff vs a WRX STI is about 9 : 14!!!! Similar for an EVO.

So it's as simple as this for me.

Anyway I already have an AWD GT car so I was looking for something for a daily driver.....

Tamas

daily driver? I love that!

I'd love to get an Evo just for the hell of it. It would be fun in the snow up here and a lovely addition to the garage of rotary power.

Re: RX-8 or STi ?
 

STI will have a much harsher ride. RX8 has handling of a sports car and harshness of a Sports sedan.

STI will kill RX8 in performance, but STI is nothing but performance. RX8 has luxury to back up its looks and performance.

I would say go for the 8. It's a better sports car in my opinion and the handling will more than make up for the power.

Then again, I do have a V-8 running @ 400hp and it gets better mileage so I suppose my power cravings are well fed...

It's a '02 Z28 in case anyone was interested.

Let's put it this way, I can buy a volkswagen bug, and spend thousands of dollars on it and beat a friggin ferrari in a straight away. But I don't think anyone is gonna really pass over the ferrari and say hey, I want that buuuuuuuug. The truth is, you can make any ugly fookin car powered up and that's exactly what the STI and Evo are. For god's sake man, look at the damn design. The Evo is just a sup'd up Lancer and the STI is just some ugly crap design from the 70's with all the fixins. Its like a woman/man with the perfect bod, but the face is totally fugly. I guess for some people all you gotta do is put a bag over them and they're ok with it. Guess you can do the same for the sti and evo, just don't look at it lol.

There has been just as much bashing of the 8s styling by car periodicals as there has been for the EVO and the STi. Looks are too subjective and should be an afterthought when comparing cars.

Whoops... almost forgot <smacks the person that revived this thread>

I disagree.

If your mission in life is to tear past every other car in creation to try to prove something, get a car with a good engine and 4 wheel drive like the STi or EvoVIII, and to hell with the looks.

However if you want something that drives well, and gives as much pleasure from the outside, you wont be happy with a family saloon, no matter how much body kit has been glued on to it.

So the STi is faster than an RX8 in a straight line, and its faster round the corners too. I'm not loosing any sleep about it.

Cheers
---Dave

http://www.989eq.com/wrx/wrx.jpghttp://www.989eq.com/350z/350z.jpg
http://www.989eq.com/rx-8/rx-8.jpghttp://www.989eq.com/corolla/corolla.jpg
An afterthought? Uhh yea you're right. I gotta have that wrx. I mean look at the cool intake thingy on the hood. I haven't seen on of those since the 70's vetts! Gotta have that! Oh oh and the coooool gold pimpy rims. Must have! Matches perfectly with the peukish blue! Yea, whatever dude. Look at the damn cars. First thing anyone sees is the design of the car you're driving, not the engine unless you drive hoodless lol. Anyone think the wrx design is better than the other 3 cars? That's what i thought. Totally agree with ya Dave.

That "WRX"( an STI) sits four people better and is is faster in a straightline and the twisties....of course....that doesn't matter when looks reign supreme? :confused: Now, what was I thinking when I said many on this board appear vain? :confused:

Here are some good comparison shots:

http://www.michaelclee.com/pics/spoo...s/IMG_0701.jpg

http://www.michaelclee.com/pics/spoo...s/IMG_0700.jpg

Here is mine:

http://www.michaelclee.com/pics/spoo...s/IMG_0553.jpg

http://www.michaelclee.com/pics/my_photos/IMG_0452.jpg

LOL, vain...what's the point of buying a sports car if it doesn't look good? Ok, then why don't you just go buy a fooking bus, add some nos, headers, exhausts turbos, and there you have your dream car right? Seats 60, and its fast as hell. Who gives a sh@# if it looks crappy, it goes fast! Whatevers man, I made my point, look at the damn cars. We all conceded already that the wrx, evo, and such have waaay greater hp and acceleration so to compare that is just simply dumb, but it just as dumb to compare their designs as its quite obvious. I'm done with this thread. Hey Hanzo nice pics, what meet is that?

honestly for right now i went with ther rx8 hands down for the looks. The STI is one sick puppy, when it comes speed. test drive both and that should do it for u. if u like the smooth ride. the eight is your choice.If u dont care for a bummpy ride but want speed go with the sti. iv been in one and in an evo both feel like crap compared to the eight. but good luck on the choice.

This is one ridiculous post! Putting aside your highly credible bus argument, I think being fast is more important than the illusion of that. Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer function over form.

I didn't mean that being fast isn't important. That's why I said the wrx and evo are obviously superior in speed when compared to rx8, but if you're talking about looks, then its obvious rx8, 350Z, NSX and such are obviously more asthetically appealing. But its like you said, some prefer power over looks, some looks over power, and some a mix. I myself, prefer a mix of the two.

Classic!

Oh, man... yes, the irony is thick!

Let me illustrate... the Ferrari Enzo. I think it's ugly.

So why would I want it? Um, because it's a sports car that eats nearly all others for breakfast.

But if I applied the "look good" logic, I wouldn't drive it.

This thread is getting seriously pointless... get what you like, don't try to convince others to get what *you * like and be done with it. Drive happily. The end.

Exactly, so you'd want something that has a mix right? I mean if I wanted nothing, but power I'd just go buy a 1990 civic hatchback and deck it out so it smokes just about anything else on the road. Its what a lot of people do, especially high school kids just so they can say "yea man, my civic hatchback smoked a Viper." But it wouldn't be very classy would it? Oh wait, forgot class and presentation don't matter apparently according to Ike, just look like sh@# and go fast. lol.

*wonders why thread wasn't closed 10 pages ago*

Btw i like this quote from the R32 vs RX8 article.