RX-8 Versus an STI
04-27-2009 | 11:08 AM
#102
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Elmira Heights, NY
RX8 vs. STI
I bought my RX8 last year after test driving it a couple of times and really loving the handling of the car. I had been in very few "stock" cars that could corner like it., it had descent acceleration and the noise at redline, oh the beautiful noise..... I was hooked.
So then I find this RX8club.com and start reading about all the wonderful mods I can do and was very excited about it until I realized how expensive these cars can be to upgrade. So what, I'm gonna turbo it anyway, I've already dug my way in this far, haha but it seemed that after a while, I start reading more and more threads on how crappy the performance is, how a stock Camry is faster than an 8, and start hearing other "car guys" tell me about their 6 cylinder mustangs wasting an RX8 and was really starting to get depressed about my decision. So, again, I'm just gonna keep digging, the car is so much fun. Now I really need a turbo just to keep up with the cool "fast" guys out there. I put an intake on it and got even more wonderful noise, but its no faster, and it doesn't make it corner better. Then I come across the BHR ignition kit...... Well, if I'm gonna turbo, I need stronger coils right? I'd have to say I definitely felt an improvement. How much? Who knows, but I'm smiling every time I drive and I think it's faster, so I'm happy.
Then the worst of the worst that could ever happen happens.... My little brother buys an STI. SPT intake, SPT exhaust. So according to everything I read, and everything I hear from fellow "car guys", its game over. It's either turbo time or trade in time. First impressions of the STI (besides it ugly and has a huge stupid looking wing) were OMG this thing is fast, and the acceleration is a bit violent.
Now that he's had the car for a little bit, we've had a few opportunities to get out and play, and let me tell you what...... the true story doesn't seem to support the theory of the "car guys". I've driven many high RPM toys in my day, and I can run the 8 to the ragged edge consistently. I know right where the power is, and I know right where it's going to slide. And I leave that STI far far behind me on the back mountain roads of upstate NY. (I'm sure the story would be reversed if they were dirt roads.) On the highway, if we are side by side and I'm ready for it (in the right gear/rev range to lay the power down) he does not walk away from me as expected. I'm obviously not going anywhere either, and we've done this from 40ish to well over 100mph. If I’m in a bad spot and he's in boost its certainly game over for me, and the 4 wheel drive boosted launch (when done well) is too much for most anything on the streets.
The STI is ugly, it has a huge wing and it rattles and bangs everywhere, but my god can it launch. 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile the 8 is owned.
The RX8 is drop dead sexy in comparison, inside and out. Properly driven it is every bit as fast as the STI outside of the launch, and when it is in it's element, the STI is left in the corners, just like almost every other car you'll come across.
I was really afraid that his STI was going to be the end of my RX8, but now I can't wait to see how far I can leave him behind when she's boosted.
Anyone that is turned away from the RX because there are faster cars in the price range needs to think again. Find a manual, learn how to drive it and there isn't much left to compare.
So then I find this RX8club.com and start reading about all the wonderful mods I can do and was very excited about it until I realized how expensive these cars can be to upgrade. So what, I'm gonna turbo it anyway, I've already dug my way in this far, haha but it seemed that after a while, I start reading more and more threads on how crappy the performance is, how a stock Camry is faster than an 8, and start hearing other "car guys" tell me about their 6 cylinder mustangs wasting an RX8 and was really starting to get depressed about my decision. So, again, I'm just gonna keep digging, the car is so much fun. Now I really need a turbo just to keep up with the cool "fast" guys out there. I put an intake on it and got even more wonderful noise, but its no faster, and it doesn't make it corner better. Then I come across the BHR ignition kit...... Well, if I'm gonna turbo, I need stronger coils right? I'd have to say I definitely felt an improvement. How much? Who knows, but I'm smiling every time I drive and I think it's faster, so I'm happy.
Then the worst of the worst that could ever happen happens.... My little brother buys an STI. SPT intake, SPT exhaust. So according to everything I read, and everything I hear from fellow "car guys", its game over. It's either turbo time or trade in time. First impressions of the STI (besides it ugly and has a huge stupid looking wing) were OMG this thing is fast, and the acceleration is a bit violent.
Now that he's had the car for a little bit, we've had a few opportunities to get out and play, and let me tell you what...... the true story doesn't seem to support the theory of the "car guys". I've driven many high RPM toys in my day, and I can run the 8 to the ragged edge consistently. I know right where the power is, and I know right where it's going to slide. And I leave that STI far far behind me on the back mountain roads of upstate NY. (I'm sure the story would be reversed if they were dirt roads.) On the highway, if we are side by side and I'm ready for it (in the right gear/rev range to lay the power down) he does not walk away from me as expected. I'm obviously not going anywhere either, and we've done this from 40ish to well over 100mph. If I’m in a bad spot and he's in boost its certainly game over for me, and the 4 wheel drive boosted launch (when done well) is too much for most anything on the streets.
The STI is ugly, it has a huge wing and it rattles and bangs everywhere, but my god can it launch. 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile the 8 is owned.
The RX8 is drop dead sexy in comparison, inside and out. Properly driven it is every bit as fast as the STI outside of the launch, and when it is in it's element, the STI is left in the corners, just like almost every other car you'll come across.
I was really afraid that his STI was going to be the end of my RX8, but now I can't wait to see how far I can leave him behind when she's boosted.
Anyone that is turned away from the RX because there are faster cars in the price range needs to think again. Find a manual, learn how to drive it and there isn't much left to compare.
Last edited by Cannibal; 04-27-2009 at 11:10 AM.
04-27-2009 | 11:22 AM
#104
The thing about the all wheel drive turbo cars (EVO and STI) are that they are just easy to drive fast. Push the gas, turn the wheel and unless you go crazy, the car will do all the work. The RX8 on the otherhand has a lot of potential that 99% of drivers will never get out of it. My personal guess is that most drivers probably dont have the skills to get even 75% of the potential out of there 8. On most track, in stock form with equal drivers, an EVO or STI will beat an RX8 but it is not as lopsided as other "Car Guys" claim.
Yes this car can be expensive to modify but if you do your research and shop around, the car gets much faster and more fun to drive.
Yes this car can be expensive to modify but if you do your research and shop around, the car gets much faster and more fun to drive.
04-27-2009 | 11:25 AM
#106
Unless you are going turbo don't waste time expecting bolt ons to net you noticeable power gains. Concentrate on the handling bits. Better rubber, coilovers, sway bars... should enhance your RX-8 experience.
And quit street racing ffs.
And quit street racing ffs.
04-27-2009 | 11:36 AM
#107
Evolution Theory
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
1) Your brother either sucks major ***** at driving or hes running at 2 psi with huge boost leak. He should be WALKING YOU SO HARD YOUR BRAIN WILL ASSPLODE.
2) Why do you care about straight line performance so much? You test drove the RX8, you should of instantly felt that it was not in anyway a torque monster.
3) Go to a track and race. If your bro can't pull from you at the track, tell him to trade it in and drive a civic.
2) Why do you care about straight line performance so much? You test drove the RX8, you should of instantly felt that it was not in anyway a torque monster.
3) Go to a track and race. If your bro can't pull from you at the track, tell him to trade it in and drive a civic.
04-27-2009 | 12:09 PM
#110
ibtl! I don't care that my cars slow cuz it still gets respect.
I met a friends new bf this past weekend and we were checking each others cars out and he had nothing but good things to say.
Keep in mind he had a bored out, heavily modified 94' mustang GT (the ones that had the big inside shift light). This thing could smoke any stock STi. When it comes down to it there's more to a car then acceleration..even the mustang guys I've met realize this.
I met a friends new bf this past weekend and we were checking each others cars out and he had nothing but good things to say.
Keep in mind he had a bored out, heavily modified 94' mustang GT (the ones that had the big inside shift light). This thing could smoke any stock STi. When it comes down to it there's more to a car then acceleration..even the mustang guys I've met realize this.
04-27-2009 | 12:55 PM
#111
mod edit
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Eugene, Oregon
Awd doesn't necessarily mean better traction coming out of corners. In fact, it can actually mean less traction. Neither car is producing enough power to really have wheel spin as an issue with anything above first gear. adding power tyo the front wheels may just generate a push when exiting a corner, thus actually giving you less traction and slowing you down on the exit. I am guessing the sti's awd would benefit it more in the wet against the rx8. A lot of your exit speed depends on how well you can keep the nose in to allow yoursefl to squeez on the power. Giving the fronts power is not a smart move if you are concerned with dry weather all out cornerinmg performance.
04-27-2009 | 01:51 PM
#112
3.2 Liter Inline Sex
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 635
Likes: 1
From: South Texas
The early cars were prone to "throttle lift oversteer" and "power on oversteer". Owners could drive in hot, lift off the gas (which is required to cure understeering) and feel their cars begin to rotate. This is what a SPORTS CAR DOES, but you can't tell that to the country club mindset. So Honda "fixed" it for them. Your later car is viewed as much better handling than the previous car, which everyone rated as "great" or "sharp as a surgeon's scalpel". Now its are only prone to "power on oversteer" when leaving a corner, BUT enter a corner too fast and your 06 S2k will still understeer. It just does so at a speed higher than what you're driving.
Last edited by Kevo; 04-27-2009 at 01:54 PM.
04-27-2009 | 02:02 PM
#113
too much 2f2f I assume ?
04-27-2009 | 02:17 PM
#114
3.2 Liter Inline Sex
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 635
Likes: 1
From: South Texas
The only way to ever truly understand racing techniques and actually learn the skills is to either autoX or track your car...even more so with tracking.
There is nothing like driving on an entire paved roadway that exists for the sole expressed purpose of pushing your car to its absolute limits.
04-27-2009 | 02:32 PM
#115
On the highway, if we are side by side and I'm ready for it (in the right gear/rev range to lay the power down) he does not walk away from me as expected.
I was really afraid that his STI was going to be the end of my RX8, but now I can't wait to see how far I can leave him behind when she's boosted.
.
I have had first hand experience with this - at the track . I still can't get over how some guys on here think a stock STI would take a turbo 8 .
04-27-2009 | 03:40 PM
#117
It's a Cavalier
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 5
From: Austin, TX
I had some similar experiences... My brother owns a modded 2000 BWM MCoupe. On paper, his car tore my RX8 up. But we would occassionally goof off and go from a 2nd gear 45 mph roll at our family's private closed off airport runway in the interest of science.
The RX8 was deep into it's powerband and we would hit it. Believe it or not, the RX8 would jump ahead just the tiniest bit, and as the RPM's increased, he would start pulling a little bit, but not much, and we would be door to door. I remember looking across at my brother, and we both had the "what the hell?" looks on our faces. It wasn't that I was getting a jump... we timed it perfectly. It was that the Renesis would make IMMEDIATE power compared to the his engine and could scratch and claw up to redline. We did this several times with the same result.
I think this is the tangible aspect of the Renesis that won't ever show up in a magazine chart. It is quick and surprisingly strong in it's powerband, and RX8 drivers feel this.
Now, once we shifted, dude, he would walk away. Ultimately, there's just no way the power and torque differences could sustain it. But in those brief moments at the top of second, I was right there with him.
The RX8 was deep into it's powerband and we would hit it. Believe it or not, the RX8 would jump ahead just the tiniest bit, and as the RPM's increased, he would start pulling a little bit, but not much, and we would be door to door. I remember looking across at my brother, and we both had the "what the hell?" looks on our faces. It wasn't that I was getting a jump... we timed it perfectly. It was that the Renesis would make IMMEDIATE power compared to the his engine and could scratch and claw up to redline. We did this several times with the same result.
I think this is the tangible aspect of the Renesis that won't ever show up in a magazine chart. It is quick and surprisingly strong in it's powerband, and RX8 drivers feel this.
Now, once we shifted, dude, he would walk away. Ultimately, there's just no way the power and torque differences could sustain it. But in those brief moments at the top of second, I was right there with him.
04-27-2009 | 04:11 PM
#118
Registered
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
From: Fullerton, CA
I had some similar experiences... My brother owns a modded 2000 BWM MCoupe. On paper, his car tore my RX8 up. But we would occassionally goof off and go from a 2nd gear 45 mph roll at our family's private closed off airport runway in the interest of science.
The RX8 was deep into it's powerband and we would hit it. Believe it or not, the RX8 would jump ahead just the tiniest bit, and as the RPM's increased, he would start pulling a little bit, but not much, and we would be door to door. I remember looking across at my brother, and we both had the "what the hell?" looks on our faces. It wasn't that I was getting a jump... we timed it perfectly. It was that the Renesis would make IMMEDIATE power compared to the his engine and could scratch and claw up to redline. We did this several times with the same result.
I think this is the tangible aspect of the Renesis that won't ever show up in a magazine chart. It is quick and surprisingly strong in it's powerband, and RX8 drivers feel this.
Now, once we shifted, dude, he would walk away. Ultimately, there's just no way the power and torque differences could sustain it. But in those brief moments at the top of second, I was right there with him.
The RX8 was deep into it's powerband and we would hit it. Believe it or not, the RX8 would jump ahead just the tiniest bit, and as the RPM's increased, he would start pulling a little bit, but not much, and we would be door to door. I remember looking across at my brother, and we both had the "what the hell?" looks on our faces. It wasn't that I was getting a jump... we timed it perfectly. It was that the Renesis would make IMMEDIATE power compared to the his engine and could scratch and claw up to redline. We did this several times with the same result.
I think this is the tangible aspect of the Renesis that won't ever show up in a magazine chart. It is quick and surprisingly strong in it's powerband, and RX8 drivers feel this.
Now, once we shifted, dude, he would walk away. Ultimately, there's just no way the power and torque differences could sustain it. But in those brief moments at the top of second, I was right there with him.
04-27-2009 | 04:32 PM
#121
It was this big! No lie!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Disneyland!
04-27-2009 | 04:43 PM
#122
Huge hole is huge
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 1
From: Joplin, MO
04-27-2009 | 04:51 PM
#124
The STi is a completely different kind of car... its really not fair to either to compare the 8 and the STi.
The STi is still an amazing machine...
this video is always very entertaining.
http://gymkhana.dcshoes.com/#/videos/bonus-hd/
The STi is still an amazing machine...
this video is always very entertaining.
http://gymkhana.dcshoes.com/#/videos/bonus-hd/
04-27-2009 | 04:52 PM
#125
I had some similar experiences... My brother owns a modded 2000 BWM MCoupe. On paper, his car tore my RX8 up. But we would occassionally goof off and go from a 2nd gear 45 mph roll at our family's private closed off airport runway in the interest of science.
The RX8 was deep into it's powerband and we would hit it. Believe it or not, the RX8 would jump ahead just the tiniest bit, and as the RPM's increased, he would start pulling a little bit, but not much, and we would be door to door. I remember looking across at my brother, and we both had the "what the hell?" looks on our faces. It wasn't that I was getting a jump... we timed it perfectly. It was that the Renesis would make IMMEDIATE power compared to the his engine and could scratch and claw up to redline. We did this several times with the same result.
I think this is the tangible aspect of the Renesis that won't ever show up in a magazine chart. It is quick and surprisingly strong in it's powerband, and RX8 drivers feel this.
Now, once we shifted, dude, he would walk away. Ultimately, there's just no way the power and torque differences could sustain it. But in those brief moments at the top of second, I was right there with him.
The RX8 was deep into it's powerband and we would hit it. Believe it or not, the RX8 would jump ahead just the tiniest bit, and as the RPM's increased, he would start pulling a little bit, but not much, and we would be door to door. I remember looking across at my brother, and we both had the "what the hell?" looks on our faces. It wasn't that I was getting a jump... we timed it perfectly. It was that the Renesis would make IMMEDIATE power compared to the his engine and could scratch and claw up to redline. We did this several times with the same result.
I think this is the tangible aspect of the Renesis that won't ever show up in a magazine chart. It is quick and surprisingly strong in it's powerband, and RX8 drivers feel this.
Now, once we shifted, dude, he would walk away. Ultimately, there's just no way the power and torque differences could sustain it. But in those brief moments at the top of second, I was right there with him.
my friend and i did a little roll from 70mph. he has a 400whp 1999 z28 camaro. i stayed with him, only losing a bit of ground, right up until the shift in the upper 80s.