OK I’ve been monitoring this list for about 2 years know in anticipation of the big day, time for a new car. I have narrowed it down to 2 cars. Mazda RX-8 or Subaru Legacy GT manual trans. I will focus here on my concerns about the Mazda and would like to hear educated informed data which my sway my decision please no kids telling me how rad the car is.


1) MPG is poor. No matter how you justify it the Rotary is not an efficient engine. I will be driving 90% of my time in suburban traffic, not stop and go but stop lights every several to couple of blocks. Here is the rub an RX-8 can get anywhere from 18 MPG to 13 MPG and there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why the range in possible mileage. I find this very disturbing that after 3 years Mazda has yet to correct this large disparity.

Has this list ever run a survey of MPG?

Can any of you that report what MPG you get for a manual in the same driving situation I drive.


2) RELIABLITY: I will have this car for the next 10 years so I want a car that will last. I have heard issues with this car developing rattles after 20 K. What have you experienced?

What really concerns me is the reliability of this new rotary engine. I have been reading about compression problems developing after 40-50K. I have read of several people losing compression and having expensive repairs because of it.

My initial thoughts would be that older rotaries which have excellent long-term reliability when properly maintained may not carry over to the new RX-8 rotary engine. The RX-8 engine gets it’s high horse power from a relatively high compression not seen in the previous versions. Could it be that as this engine ages it is incapable of maintaining this compression ratio? The way the Rotary is designed presents a number of areas where compression could fail. Is this engine destine to fail or lose power prematurely?

Any one out there with 50K plus on there car? Can you give your experience?


3) FLOODING: Can’t believe Mazda hasn’t corrected this already. From what I understand a stronger started that would spin the engine faster would all but eliminate this problem. I understand a recall to a stronger starter is available but you have to jump through hoops to get it. I don’t want a car that I have to sing and dance to get part that will keep me from getting stranded. I live in Chicago (cold winters) and will drive the car year round so I feel it is only a matter of time. Any thoughts?



4) TIRES: Stock tires can’t ride in the snow so I have to change them right off the bat. I plan on going to Avons all season performance tires. I don’t want to change tires for the seasons. Any one want to buy a set of stock tires cheap?



5) POOR SERVICE: Here is a scary one. I’m sure there are good ones out there but I only here about the bad ones. What is your experience especially if you’re from Chicago land.

 

I confess to being mystified as to how you could have read this forum for 2 years and end up asking about things that I've seen beaten to death in my mere 5 months here. I'll vomit if I see another mpg discussion. The main reliability issue is that you can reliably expect the same questions to keep coming up about the reliability of the engine and the same responses to come back from people who've racked up tons of miles with no problems. The only serious flooding problem is the flood of threads discussing flooding, mainly instigated by people who couldn't be bothered to follow the simple rules of the car. The offer to sell tires belongs in the classified section, and the question about Chicago area service providers belongs in the regional section.

So my question back to you is: what have *you* been reading for two years??

 

We really need a section on the forum to deal with questions like these. It really gets out of hand when these questions were just asked yesterday, answered, and then re-appear. My guess is that people will soon just stop replying, so you can call me generous.

1). It's a sports car! If you care so much about how many cents you lose by buying the rx8, then it's not the car for you. The range in gas mileage (13-18, as you say) is directly related to how much you push the engine. If you're on the track, you can expect 8mpg. If you're on the highway, you can expect 20. Peronally, I get about 17 mpg with spirited driving.

2). There are a number of members here with over 50k miles. I'd like my car to last at least 8 or 9 years, and I have confidence that, with proper maintenace (which isn't going to kill you), that it will last. As for the engine failing prematurely, I don't know where you got that idea from. Production of the rx8 began in 2003, so it's too early to tell whether there's a serious issue when the rotary hits 80k, for example.

3). Mazda has done their job through the reprogramming flashes. I've accidently turned her off while she was cold several times, but never flooded. I've seen posts from members who move their cars just to get it out of the way and immediately turn it off to find themselves not having any trouble later. I suppose it varies.

4). You can expect that with most RWD sports cars.

5). Dunno. All my dealers are fine.

Btw, this has been said many times, but the threads you see concerning complaints about flooding and reliability issues are from those who have unfortunately been in such conditions and exaggerated their troubles to a large extent. Most of us who haven't had any serious problems are not going to post a million threads about how we don't have any problems.

And I highly doubt the Subaru is as fun to drive as the 8.

Krankor tells the truth, btw. All 'theoretical' reliability issues aside, I'm more than happy with my 8. I could use another 50hp or so, but I don't plan on winning trophies on a track.

gah, 1 am. lots of typos, gotta edit

 

Mileage....
I do a lot of highway, but I rarely get 19 or less MPG. Did you really think you would be getting the EPA sticker economy?....that's a bit naiive.

Tires...
The car comes with ultra high performance tires, instead of all season good-for-nothing blando rubber. If you want to go skiing, get a Jetta.

Reliability.....
Who the hell have you been listening to? Who has ANY statistics as to the long term reliability of a Renesis? Rotaries without turbos will go head to head with ANY motor in longevity! Now that the exhaust is not under the apex seals there is NO reason the engine should not run, troublefree, for many years.

Flooding....
30,000 miles, one of the very first cars built, and NEVER flooded. Nuff said.

..aah, screw it. (did I mention I hate whiners?)

S

 

have you read the RX-8 FAQ yet:

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-faq-9/faq-update-63747/

and um, i don't like whiners either

 

dont get the 8, I think there is a conflict on interest here. get the legacy GT, thats also a good car, each to their own. the subaru will probably suit you best.

 

I wouldn't trade it for anything else that's out there ( in the same price range or even close ). Just something about the car I can't get enough of.

 

1) sounds like you already don't like this car. the engine is different. I find it as a cost for fun.

2) most rx-8s at 50k have been running fine. also, there aren't many long-term reliability tests to say it isn't reliable. the forum members here with those miles are having no problems.

3) it is all about taking care of the car. if you warm it up, there should be no problems.

4) rwd cars don't do well in snow.

5) depends on the dealer, I say ask in the regional forum.

 

You're nuts of you think you can get away with those Avons in the snow, in an AWD car sure, no way in the RX-8.

If you want to more reliable and worry free car, best in all weather conditions, and the fastest car in a straight line get the Legacy. If you want the more nimble and fun to drive and toss around car that is more of a head turner get the RX-8.

 

if you ask me. it seems like you want the car being that you been monitoring for 2 years as you said. forget what you read because sickness travels like wildfire here sometimes is what i learned from it all. i know im new the the site, but my best piece of advice is follow what you want and you'll be happy no matter what problems may lie ahead with your choice. i hope with what ever car you decide to get; you enjoy fully.

 

Ok, so now that we know what you DON'T like about the RX-8, what is it that you DO like about it, and what do you like/dislike about the LGT?

Ike pretty much gave a dead-on response. Sounds to me like the LGT is the car for you. Also note (if you care) that modding on the LGT is significantly easier than on the RX-8.

 

I hope you are wearing your "flame-ON" suit.

Read the FAQ and run the searches on those topics!

 

1. MPG: The RX-8 does not get good gas mileage. Never has, never will. If this is important to you get the Legacy.

2. Reliability: The car has been very reliable for me and I believe this is "typical" experience. A forum of this type is going to emphasize the problems. Note that the Legacy is good but is not a "top scorer" in reliability.

3. Flooding: Even with the latest fixes (plugs, battery, starter) Mazda still recommends avoiding short trips. If you can't live with this get the Legacy.

4. Tires: Yes, the RX-8 comes with top performing summer tires, as do most high performance cars. Summer tires cannot be used in snow on any vehicle. If you see this as a problem get the Legacy.

5. Service: Can't speak to the dealership quality in the Chicago area ... either Mazda or Subaru.

 

I enjoy my RX-8 very much. ....I look at people that dread driving their vehicles and I think people with the RX-8 look forward to driving them. That is the true test of car....after you had the car for 4 years to do you still look forward to driving the vehicle.....Camry = No, Taurus = No, RX8 = Yes

When I bought my 8 the G35 sport coupe was not out yet. If I had had a choice between the G35 and the RX8, I would have gone with the G35. More HP, Better MPG, no fear of flooding and both have great looks. The sedan G35 was out but it looked crappy and had a reduce HP engine.

 

A very close friend of mine bought a 2004 WRX in 2003 (Pre-release) so he had about 20k on his car by the time I picked up my 2004 in early 2005 after the dealer dropped his pants on a deal I couldn't refuse.

Both of us had BMW 328IS's before these new purchases (Mine a 97, his a 98), and I'm completely happy with the fit and finish of my interior and the quality of the car, while he curses the fact his interior rattles like a snake and feels cheap with a cloth interior even though we both spent about the same at the end of the day.

Moral to the story is that he hates his subaru. Yes it's a great rocket and with the AWD he has no issues using all seasons in the horrible Toronto winters up here, but his biggest complaint is that the handling sucks and it feels totaly cheap.

It all depends on what you want. I've had my car for 14k now and no rattles, no issues, no floods, but truly ****-poor mileage and that's because I keep my rpm's at a consistent 7-8k.... try that with a Subaru

 

Go here and compare both of these cars, I set it up for you:

Legacy GT vs RX8

If you think your gaining better fuel economy with the Legacy, according to the EPA it's only 1mpg and on top of that the RX8 has one more year of warranty.

I didn't go into the details of compariing them, you can do that, but I do want to tell you that your assumptions of the RX8 are wrong.

I've been there, I was scared by all the 13mpg talk but you know what after 6.9K miles and one year of ownership, I've NEVER hit lower than 18.6mpg in all city and I've even pushed it to 20.4mpg when I tried to drive to save gas.

Now, I drive more aggressive and I still can't get it to go under 18.6mpg and frankly driving more aggressive than I am now is just not possible with traffic and cops all over the place.

Flooding, what flooding? Again...if you follow the Rotary plan, you won't have to worry about that.

Oil, every fill up check it and add if needed...not a big issue either.

Safety, fun to drive factor, handling, balance, quality inside and out, good rear seating, nice extra half doors, comfort, good sized trunk (minus the opening), good performance for 95% of driving, and SEXY LOOKS...is what makes this car great.

The Legacy GT is also a nice car, more room in the back, AWD, and looks pretty good so you can't go wrong really.

Just don't reject the RX8 based on flawed information.

 

I'd say go for the Legacy GT. Looks like you'll be happier with that purchase. I actually like the new design of the Legacy!

 

Damn I didn't know Subaru's only had 36/36000 miles warranty. That sucks!

 

Not that bad, I average around 21-22mpg.

Every car will develop rattles.

Generally they are modded engines that are having expensive repairs.

Never had the problem. I've had more problems with normal piston engines flooding than the RX8.

Going to be true for any performance car.

I wont go to dealers with any car I really car about. Find a good mechanic that you trust.

 

Not worthy of an 8 ..nuff said

 

i have no intention to turn this into a rx8 vs etc thread, but G35 coupe has been out since 2003 model year. of course it was severely backordered and there was crazy markups at first.

 

In the debate over "disappointing" mpg ratings, the RX-8 does ask you to, well, think differently. Its a unique car that offers up a unique compromise: in exchange for lower mpg, you get a car with not just exemplary handling but also—listening to people here—a unique "feel" that doesn't completely translate into numbers. Whether you call it "light on its feet," "lithe" or "agile," it seems the 8 gives its owners a special, fulfilling, fun-to-drive "feeling" that's a direct result of the fact that the compact—and relatively thirsty—rotary engine allows it to be placed where its placed in the car.

Needless to say, this is an unusual compromise that some have trouble getting their heads around. Traditionally, enthusiasts are more than happy to accept lower mpg ratings in exchange for more power (particularly straight line acceleration). The 8 simply asks you to trade for superior "feel" and handling instead. And guess what - its power ain't too bad either.

 

Sounds to me like this guy is really looking for a Corolla S: good mileage, sporty, meat and potatoes 4-cyl engine, 4 doors, Toyota dependability, Toyota service, front wheel drive for snow and it's cheaper.

P.S. He read the forum for TWO YEARS and has 1 post.

 

Since I starting reading this post i have been thinking.. rx8 is just not worth the troubles.. I mean.. who wants a fun spirited drive... high revving engine... superb handling... smooth ride.. who wants to ride a sexy looking beast that has a mean look on the road, makes heads turn, and goes zoom zoom!

C'mon! Clearly, not worth it. Nope.. nada.. zilch.. no. dont get it. stay awake. go get the other car and drive as far away as you can.

 

I see Mazda hasnt been wasting their money marketing with this Zoom Zoom stuff.