RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

Tighter factory suspension setup as an option on the 8 (not just MazdaSpeed) along with that missing 18 horsepower (okay, why not make it +38 for an even 270hp) would put the 8 in contention for possible legendary status (if they kept the base price under 30k).

C'mon Mazda. You could collect your lost profits if your engineers can simply deliver the goods.

Robonaut

What do you mean by "should"?

Isn't the announced R3 trim level the same as the RS?

BillK

No idea, but automakers in general have a bad habit of dropping nifty things like Recaro seats when their vehicles make the transition from Japan or Germany to the US.

I'm assuming, whether I have any basis to or not, that Mazda's going to stick with the Sport/Touring/Grand Touring delineation for 2009.

DaBatMan

burst my bubble... hardly. you've helped prove my point which is take that 20K that you save by not buying the cayman S, mod your 8 and you'll have a machine that kicks 911GT3 ***, not just Cayman S ***. thanks!

Ike

This is sarcasm, right?

tajabaho1

ike, as usual, you're wrong, thats not sarcasm

an rx8 that beats a gt3's ***?

lol, tell me how that goes.......

LowCG

Never had a Cayman, but my car before my RX8 was a Boxster, so FWIW,

Ground Rules:
I'm skipping the whole issue of convertible vs. coupe - to each his own.
I own an RX8 now. I owned a Boxster before that. A '97 Miata M before that. A Triumph before that. and so on.

Background:
Cost:
I bought a pristine 2001 Box in April 2005 for $28,500, with 13,300 miles. MSRP was $51K and some change. So I got a near new car for 55% of MSRP. Note 1: A number of Porsche people buy cars and don't drive them much. There are good, well maintained examples if you look hard. I looked for 9 months before finding the car I wanted. The car had about 6 months of factory warranty.
Bought my 2006 RX8 in Nov. 2006 for right at $25,000.
In a ballpark sense, the used Box and the new 8 were about the same.

Track Performance: I've driven both in DE multiple times.
Boxster: Fun to drive fast. Great brakes. The brakes on the Box have to be driven to be believed. But, there's some factory understeer to deal with.
RX8: To me, I love the lighter, balanced feel of the 8. Oddly, the Box felt heavier (on rails?) even though it's gross weight was slightly less than an RX8, I think. I prefer the feel of the 8. Great brakes. People diss the torque, but it's surprising how fast you can exit a corner, which combines handling and torque. Driven properly, the 8 is fast.

Any road driving: I'll take the 8. The engine noise of the Boxster is nice at the track esp. over 4000 rpm on varicam, but an all day road trip wears on you. The 8 is quiet, I can actually hear the stereo, my legs are comfortable (I'm tall), and my back feels fine after an 8 hour drive.

Money: The initial cost of the Porsche is not the end of the story. Take any normal maintenance or repair cost and x2. Unless you turn your own wrench. Parts = expensive. Por-sha dealers: not afraid to charge you, you're a Porsche owner, right? Love the 4/50 warranty on the RX8.

Brand loyalty: It's a good thing, but there's a lot of really cool cars out there. My GT6, when it was actually running, was a blast to drive - 2000 lbs. of pure classic fun.

Snobbism: I'm an engineer, I really don't care what other people think. I like sports cars for the way they drive, not for a badge. I bought the Boxster because I had read it drove beautifully, and it did. I found that Porsche owners fit in two groups - the enthusiasts and the badge folks. The enthusiasts, like any car nuts, are great people. The badge crowd - not so much.

Owning and driving the Boxster was fun. I think I bought wisely, enjoyed it a while, and got out before any serious expenses came up (beware the RMS). But I drive an RX8 . I plan to hang on to it for a while. I love the high revving rotary. I love the balance. I like being able to take comfortable weekend trips with my wife. Cars are personal choices, and we're all different. The RX8 is a truly remarkable blend of track and daily driveability that suits my pocketbook.

After the RX8? Who knows?
Drive safe. Have fun.

BillK

Just a couple quick points:

This depends on how you drive. If you make sure to kick the transmission up into top gear when cruising normally, the engine noise (many would say music) of the Porsche engine is not fatiguing at all.

As opposed to the 4/50 warranty on the Boxster?

I can't argue regarding parts, and maintenance is on the surface more expensive, but for example oil changes are only required every 12,000 miles or once per year.

Service at a local Porsche dealer is listed at $110/hour; service pricing at my local Mazda dealer is $105/hour. Not a major difference there.

I'll also bring up the point that the Boxster S (let alone the non-S Boxster) gets better gas mileage than the 8 - around 27 MPG highway with a six speed - which you also have to put into the equation if we're talking a straight financial analysis.

Rems31

which would have already expired or would have been soon (when he purchased it)...

VikingDJ

interesting thread, but the tell it like it is of IKE, is spot on. Hell, I haven't always agreed with the guy, but COME ON PEOPLE, WAKE UP AND SMELL REALITY, AND JUST ENJOY YOUR RX8. Why this comparison, and all this garbage about THROW ON A TURBO, SPEND LESS< AND SMOKE A PORSCHE. That's the oldest and stupidest argument I have ever heard.

The regular cayman will cleanly outperfom an RX8 in every aspect. Whether it's worth the money is purely subjective. Why these cars even were compared to begin with is beyond me, but it's likely just a simple case of people wanting their RX8 to stack up against a better performing, and IMO better looking machine. That's saying something to, because I now own an S2000 instead of an RX8, but I still think the RX8 is nicer looking then my S. I'd take a Cayman any day, but I can't afford it, and I worry enough about leaving my S2000 parked in lots, so I would never own one out of pure fear alone, even if I could afford one. HEHE

The RX8 is what it is, and it's a fabulous car.

ccd

I'm looing at both of these cars and the RX-8 wins hands down for not one of the reasons listed in 7 pages of discussions. All you have to do is get in a Cayman and open the front and back trunks and you know that the RX-8 is better suited for the life we actually live.

Want to play golf? I do and the rear compartment (the only one which could possibly carry a bag) is just too shallow unless maybe you have a small bag. Full size bag? Probably not. Unless the bag is going to be your co-pilot and you are leaving your golfing buddy at home. Gorcery shopping of a Saturday, leave the Cayman home unless you are just buying a few things. Getting a soda to go or a cup of java? Keep to a medium (or less), the big cup ain't going to fit those cupholders.

Other nits. Porsche seems to love light interiors, guess they didn't get the memo about how they show dirt. And the radio? Unless the car is a '09 or later, the radio looks positively archaic. And what to you get in '09? A screen for the radio (and nav if ordered)which is really small.

The RX-8 is big enough to have fun driving around taking care of life's errands. The Cayman may or may not be big enough and you will be constantly taking the "other" car just in case you decide to get more than the Cayman can hold.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

^ I do this mental analysis often when I lust after a Cayman. I would like to have one but see myself leaving it home even more often then I already do the '8.

CarAndDriver

Thread revival. How many Cayman owners have a 2nd car in their household? My guess is many.

SPHINX144

really? please show me the steps to follow where the final result is a reliable car for everyday driving. All the turbo set ups I have seen that seem reliable cost about $7000 and that doesn't include the tuning and labor that goes into fitting it.

SPHINX144

seriosuly I cant believe some people prefer the cayman over a 911. ask any Porsche hard core enthusiast and he will tell you the cayman and boxter are chick cars! and for people who cannot afford 911s.

ccd

sphinx144:

That is total and complete BS. If the Cayman is a chick car with 265hp (base) and 320 hp (S), then what does that make a stock RX-8??? I had a long conversation about both the 911 and the Cayman with a man who knows alot about both. The major difference is that the Cayman is kind of a useable car, but the 911 is a straight up toy. The Cayman will/might see daily duty when the 911 is sitting in the garage. This guys sells premium cars to lots of people and most of the 911s spend their time in the garage. He has a friend with a 2002 911 with 7,000 miles on it.

Kafka

I definitely need to get one of those low mileage C4S and drive all season...for my next car

Rx8 is a great compromise between a DD and track car. Cayman is not - it focus on track performance even more.

A 2 seater and lighter Rx8 will be right on between Cayman and Cayman S, performance wise.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

A 911 is obviously a great machine, but I would prefer a 2-seat mid-engine layout in my next sportscar. Cayman S therefore would be perfect (if Mazda doesn't get its 16X act together by 2012).

ccd

To be fair, hardcore Porsche enthusiasts do believe the only true Porsche has the engine in the rear. Basically, if it ain't a 911, it's not a real Porsche. But putting the engine in the rear is far from ideal placement and only tons engineering has overcome that placement.

Mid-engine is the ideal placement and people have long said that Porsche will not give the Cayman more hp because it would eclipse the 911. Read just about any review of both cars and the Cayman S is always nipping at the heels of the 911 around the track despite having far less power because it handles so much better than the 911.

dillsrotary

Intelligent response

And do you own a porsche?

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Mid-engine is certainly the ideal placement. The 911 has of course held to a long standing tradition. At least the boxer engine is now directly over the rear axle and not cantilevered out the back.

If Porsche put a turbo on the Cayman S it would easily outclass the stock 911, which is why it'll never happen (except of course aftermarket).

911SC

I do own a 911, and a real one, not a water pumper, JK. There has been much talk about the Cayman VS the 911 and the owners of the older aircooled cars feel that the Cayman is more in tune with the original 911 idea. The new 993, 997, etc. have become more GT cars than true sports cars. To each their own, but I prefer the Cayman to the new 911.

Chibana

The Cayman is the only other car of all the cars I considered for my recreational vehicle to be truly comparable to the RX-8. If cost were no option, I would have purchased a Cayman, most likely, although I personally think the RX-8 is the sexier looking car, inside and out. Both cars are mid-engine (one front-mid, the other rear-mid) and are generally considered the tops of their class in steering and handling. I've read reviewers who wrote that the Cayman may just be the best steering and handling production car in the world. I've also read a significant number of reviewers who have said the RX-8 is one of the best handling cars in the world, and most certainly within a price range that's much higher than the RX-8's. Both cars also have interesting engine designs. The Wankel is certainly the more unusual of the two, but I definitely find the flat 6 interesting, as well.

DavidTK

I've owned 3 different 911's (964, 996, and 996 Turbo) and a Boxster S (2001), although I no longer own any of them. I now have an RX-8 and I race a Spec Miata.

I tracked all of the Porsches and I liked the Boxster S the best hands down. 911=understeer, and if it oversteers, it gets there pretty quickly. The 911's are great for around town though, especially the 996 Turbo.

For track use, between the Boxster and the RX-8, I'll always take the Boxster because the brakes are PHENOMENAL compared to the RX-8. I also slightly prefer the handling of the Boxster - it's more balanced and I like the feel of it better.

All that being said, what do I drive now? An RX-8. I turn about the same track times on street tires in the 8 as I do in my Spec Miata, which is on race tires.

no128s

Been lurking for a while... but had to add my $.02 to this.

I love my '04 Velocity Red RX-8. Hands down the most awesome car I have owned. Having said that this whole Porsche vs. RX-8 argument is silly. As many have said, it is a personal preference issue combined with money. If I had the money, I would have a Cayman. Having driven both there is just something about the Porsche... feeling, history.. I am not sure. But, that is just a personal preference.

Dare I say that most of us will never realize the full potential in any car we own, so it comes down to what "trips our trigger" and what we can afford. If I won the lottery, I would still drive my RX-8 daily, but there would definatley be a Porsche in my garage (probably older 911... but that is a different story).