RX8 Faster 0 - 60 than MazdaSpeed6
09-12-2006, 07:37 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by TALAN7
I think it matters a lot. Case in point, take a look at the new Porsche Cayman. Porsche took great pains to make sure the Cayman wasn't as fast as the 911 regardless of trim level. They have a performance heiarchy that they won't even cross. How can they tought the 911 as great when their own lower model is faster.
I know what you're thinking. Mazdaspeed is a different line. True, but there is no Mazdaspeed RX8, and the flagship should be the fastest, particularly if it's to most sportiest. who would want an NSX if the RSX type S and TL type S was faster. SRT Chryslers and Dodges still aren't faster than the Viper. V-series Caddies aren't faster than the Vette. (they're all GM)
The issue is, most carmakers go through great pains upgrading engines and whatever to make their flagship SPORTS car the best performer in all categories. I know the RX-8 is better on the track, but I'm sure it's only marginally better handling. The Mazdaspeeds make up for that handling defecit in raw power. The RX-8 is due for more power.
I know what you're thinking. Mazdaspeed is a different line. True, but there is no Mazdaspeed RX8, and the flagship should be the fastest, particularly if it's to most sportiest. who would want an NSX if the RSX type S and TL type S was faster. SRT Chryslers and Dodges still aren't faster than the Viper. V-series Caddies aren't faster than the Vette. (they're all GM)
The issue is, most carmakers go through great pains upgrading engines and whatever to make their flagship SPORTS car the best performer in all categories. I know the RX-8 is better on the track, but I'm sure it's only marginally better handling. The Mazdaspeeds make up for that handling defecit in raw power. The RX-8 is due for more power.
I agree with the principle, but if you look into it more... you have to look at the particular line up the cars are related to. For example the V-series caddies are fast/close to the C6, but the ZO6 is the vette the seperates itself from the pack.
just for Non-MS cars the rx8 is tops in mazda, now for the mazdaspeed line....well we just need a mazdaspeed8 to match up with the rest and to lead the pack. Knowing Mazda, we will never know what they're thinking.. lol
Just like the acura 'Type-S' line up, all of their Type-S's were significantly faster than their non-S line up.
09-12-2006, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by redcivic
Well, you can post whatever numbers you want but i go to the track eevery wednesday night and every wednesday there are a few MS6's around and I have never seen one break a low 14 let alone 13's. There is no doubt in my mind that a MS6 is faster than a RX-8 with an excellent driver but you will rarely see it run what it's supposed to.
Don't believe everything you read....
I have been drag racing for years and it took me quite a while to run a 14.8 in my RX-8. I get sick of hearing this car will run that and this car will run this. Most people cannot drive their cars to full potential. Come with me any night at the track and I will show you Vettes running high 13's and EVO MR's running mid to high 14's. There are people on this site with all kinds of mods running 1/2 second slower times than me in my stock RX-8.
The best mod you can make is learning how to drive!
Just by practicing I have dropped from a 15.2 -15.4 my first night out down to a 14.8. How many mods do you think it would to take to drop all those tenths?
Don't believe everything you read....
I have been drag racing for years and it took me quite a while to run a 14.8 in my RX-8. I get sick of hearing this car will run that and this car will run this. Most people cannot drive their cars to full potential. Come with me any night at the track and I will show you Vettes running high 13's and EVO MR's running mid to high 14's. There are people on this site with all kinds of mods running 1/2 second slower times than me in my stock RX-8.
The best mod you can make is learning how to drive!
Just by practicing I have dropped from a 15.2 -15.4 my first night out down to a 14.8. How many mods do you think it would to take to drop all those tenths?
09-12-2006, 09:06 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by TALAN7
I think it matters a lot. Case in point, take a look at the new Porsche Cayman. Porsche took great pains to make sure the Cayman wasn't as fast as the 911 regardless of trim level. They have a performance heiarchy that they won't even cross. How can they tought the 911 as great when their own lower model is faster.
I know what you're thinking. Mazdaspeed is a different line. True, but there is no Mazdaspeed RX8, and the flagship should be the fastest, particularly if it's to most sportiest. who would want an NSX if the RSX type S and TL type S was faster. SRT Chryslers and Dodges still aren't faster than the Viper. V-series Caddies aren't faster than the Vette. (they're all GM)
The issue is, most carmakers go through great pains upgrading engines and whatever to make their flagship SPORTS car the best performer in all categories. I know the RX-8 is better on the track, but I'm sure it's only marginally better handling. The Mazdaspeeds make up for that handling defecit in raw power. The RX-8 is due for more power.
I know what you're thinking. Mazdaspeed is a different line. True, but there is no Mazdaspeed RX8, and the flagship should be the fastest, particularly if it's to most sportiest. who would want an NSX if the RSX type S and TL type S was faster. SRT Chryslers and Dodges still aren't faster than the Viper. V-series Caddies aren't faster than the Vette. (they're all GM)
The issue is, most carmakers go through great pains upgrading engines and whatever to make their flagship SPORTS car the best performer in all categories. I know the RX-8 is better on the track, but I'm sure it's only marginally better handling. The Mazdaspeeds make up for that handling defecit in raw power. The RX-8 is due for more power.
But keep in mind that if a stock 8 was running 13 sec. times, would we have spent as little as we did acquiring this "flagship?"
09-12-2006, 09:22 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by Ike
I've been to the strip several times and have never seen an RX-8 break into the 14s. That doesn't mean it's not capable or running 14s.
I was able to -barely- break into the 14s (14.97" to be exact) in the 0-400m (timing in both directions of the strip, in the opposite direction was an almost flat 15.01"). On the same run, I clocked the 0-100kph in 6.9".
Mind you, I have the 4port RX8 (5MT), with REVi, RB duct, and Trust PE Ti exhaust.
Still, these times are almost equal to my 1991 CRX VTEC....not a good indication for Mazda's flagship....
09-12-2006, 12:26 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by The Ace
Then you haven't seen a lot of RX8s or any decent drivers.
I was able to -barely- break into the 14s (14.97" to be exact) in the 0-400m (timing in both directions of the strip, in the opposite direction was an almost flat 15.01"). On the same run, I clocked the 0-100kph in 6.9".
Mind you, I have the 4port RX8 (5MT), with REVi, RB duct, and Trust PE Ti exhaust.
Still, these times are almost equal to my 1991 CRX VTEC....not a good indication for Mazda's flagship....
I was able to -barely- break into the 14s (14.97" to be exact) in the 0-400m (timing in both directions of the strip, in the opposite direction was an almost flat 15.01"). On the same run, I clocked the 0-100kph in 6.9".
Mind you, I have the 4port RX8 (5MT), with REVi, RB duct, and Trust PE Ti exhaust.
Still, these times are almost equal to my 1991 CRX VTEC....not a good indication for Mazda's flagship....
09-12-2006, 03:56 PM
#56
Guns, God, and Country
Ike, to be honest the track I go to does not bold well for RX-8. But I have been runing that track since it was built and I will get down to a 14.5 when it gets below 90+ degress out I guarantee it. My boss drives a CL65 AMG capable of high 11's and there is no way he could drive it to a high 11. You can have the fastest car in the world and it won't mean **** if you don't learn how to drive it. That's why I laugh when I see these jackasses at the track with 5k in mods running slower times than me. Same as I get my *** waxed on the autocross course because I'm a noob. Practice makes perfect, then I will mod.
09-12-2006, 04:58 PM
#58
Guns, God, and Country
You are probably thinking of a mercedes G class AMG not aland rover.
Yeah, Mercedes CL65 AMG. 600+HP 700ft/lb of Torque Twin Turbo V-12.
Yeah, Mercedes CL65 AMG. 600+HP 700ft/lb of Torque Twin Turbo V-12.
Last edited by redcivic; 09-12-2006 at 05:02 PM.
09-12-2006, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Crazy Rx-8 Driver
just for Non-MS cars the rx8 is tops in mazda, now for the mazdaspeed line....well we just need a mazdaspeed8 to match up with the rest and to lead the pack. Knowing Mazda, we will never know what they're thinking.. lol
09-12-2006, 05:10 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by redcivic
Ike, to be honest the track I go to does not bold well for RX-8. But I have been runing that track since it was built and I will get down to a 14.5 when it gets below 90+ degress out I guarantee it. My boss drives a CL65 AMG capable of high 11's and there is no way he could drive it to a high 11. You can have the fastest car in the world and it won't mean **** if you don't learn how to drive it. That's why I laugh when I see these jackasses at the track with 5k in mods running slower times than me. Same as I get my *** waxed on the autocross course because I'm a noob. Practice makes perfect, then I will mod.
I don't drag race, so this question is sincere, but to be taken with a grain of salt:
Apart from launch control and shifting, what skill is there to drag racing?
09-12-2006, 06:06 PM
#61
Guns, God, and Country
Apart from launch control and shifting, what skill is there to drag racing?
09-12-2006, 08:40 PM
#62
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I guess I'll have to try. I tried searching for drag racing techniques and tips and most of the stuff I found was akin to poker (bluffing the dial-in) and working your time so you don't break out, kinda like Pinks (TV show), which seems to be all about negotiation and bluffing (boring).
I wish they had a TV show where mechanics are given a budget and time limit, so they can build a car and drag race. To me, drag racing seems more appropriate for engineers, mechanics, and project managers, not drivers.
The bluffing aside, with launch control and DSG, such as found in European VW GTI MkV's, it seems the only thing necessary is quick reflexes to plant your foot on signal to get a good time. It's unlikely that a human can outshift a DSG.
I wish they had a TV show where mechanics are given a budget and time limit, so they can build a car and drag race. To me, drag racing seems more appropriate for engineers, mechanics, and project managers, not drivers.
The bluffing aside, with launch control and DSG, such as found in European VW GTI MkV's, it seems the only thing necessary is quick reflexes to plant your foot on signal to get a good time. It's unlikely that a human can outshift a DSG.
Last edited by dynamho; 09-12-2006 at 08:42 PM.
09-12-2006, 08:45 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by redcivic
Oh is that all! There is a lot of skill to it. If you drag raced one time you would understand. Not to mention it's a blast!
09-12-2006, 09:37 PM
#64
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Well, the obvious answer about the "skill" of drag racing is:
Getting a good launch... The tradeoff between wheelspin and not (wheelspin being particularly important in the RX-8), proper launch rpm, proper throttle modulation in the intial "hookup". After that changing gears quickly at the correct RPM. And don't forget to avoid the other car and the guardrail.
Not that we're driving a Top Fuel car or anything, but there's a reason that even professional drivers don't do the same time run after run (and indeed muck up their runs sometimes). There's a skill to it, and if you've not had extensive practice, you won't have wrung the best out of your car the first time(s) you do it. Peeling out away from a stop sign on a deserted road is practice, but you really need the timing slips to see how changes to your technique improve your times.
All the above is an assumption as I've never actually done a run on a drag strip.
Getting a good launch... The tradeoff between wheelspin and not (wheelspin being particularly important in the RX-8), proper launch rpm, proper throttle modulation in the intial "hookup". After that changing gears quickly at the correct RPM. And don't forget to avoid the other car and the guardrail.
Not that we're driving a Top Fuel car or anything, but there's a reason that even professional drivers don't do the same time run after run (and indeed muck up their runs sometimes). There's a skill to it, and if you've not had extensive practice, you won't have wrung the best out of your car the first time(s) you do it. Peeling out away from a stop sign on a deserted road is practice, but you really need the timing slips to see how changes to your technique improve your times.
All the above is an assumption as I've never actually done a run on a drag strip.
09-12-2006, 10:10 PM
#65
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Being able to drive is a very big factor.
Just as an example, I've raced several different cars in a drag that should have beet me, but didn't:
Camaro Z28
Nissan 350z
4g eclipse
SRT-4 <--I'm not too sure on this one, he must have really screwed up
I've also run even with one of those new 6-series coupes.
But then again I've screwed up, and lost to stuff I shouldn't have:
3g eclipse w/ i/e
RSX
But these are just a few examples.
________
Herbal Vaporizer Reviews
Just as an example, I've raced several different cars in a drag that should have beet me, but didn't:
Camaro Z28
Nissan 350z
4g eclipse
SRT-4 <--I'm not too sure on this one, he must have really screwed up
I've also run even with one of those new 6-series coupes.
But then again I've screwed up, and lost to stuff I shouldn't have:
3g eclipse w/ i/e
RSX
But these are just a few examples.
________
Herbal Vaporizer Reviews
Last edited by dmorales; 09-09-2011 at 03:05 AM.
09-13-2006, 01:34 AM
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If you want more power fuel up with better fuel. In sweden there has been noticed an increase in performance when moving from 95 to 99 octane fuel. 205 or so hp with 95 octane got boosted to close to 230 hp when using 99 octane fuel.
So yes Mazda's estimation of hp is actually very accurate, as long as you use the correct fuel. And 0-100 km/h (0-60 for you) is easily attainable under 6 seconds.
So yes Mazda's estimation of hp is actually very accurate, as long as you use the correct fuel. And 0-100 km/h (0-60 for you) is easily attainable under 6 seconds.
09-13-2006, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dmorales
Being able to drive is a very big factor.
Just as an example, I've raced several different cars in a drag that should have beet me, but didn't:
Camaro Z28
Nissan 350z
4g eclipse
SRT-4 <--I'm not too sure on this one, he must have really screwed up
I've also run even with one of those new 6-series coupes.
But then again I've screwed up, and lost to stuff I shouldn't have:
3g eclipse w/ i/e
RSX
But these are just a few examples.
Just as an example, I've raced several different cars in a drag that should have beet me, but didn't:
Camaro Z28
Nissan 350z
4g eclipse
SRT-4 <--I'm not too sure on this one, he must have really screwed up
I've also run even with one of those new 6-series coupes.
But then again I've screwed up, and lost to stuff I shouldn't have:
3g eclipse w/ i/e
RSX
But these are just a few examples.
This is SO TRUE!! but no one believed me untill i ran those ppl again. except for the 4g Eclipse, i got smoked by that one. pretty much the 350z and z28 can launch like hell but they cant last that long on a quartermile they'll die out half the way and for the SRT-4 i dont think they screwed, its jus a neon with turbo..and as for the 3g eclipse and rsx, you should beat them no contest stock, a friend of mine has a 3g with intake, piping, and full suspension but lost to me by 3 cars and the rsx it jus depends if its turbo or not lol
09-13-2006, 03:57 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by Mystery
This is SO TRUE!! but no one believed me untill i ran those ppl again. except for the 4g Eclipse, i got smoked by that one. pretty much the 350z and z28 can launch like hell but they cant last that long on a quartermile they'll die out half the way and for the SRT-4 i dont think they screwed, its jus a neon with turbo..and as for the 3g eclipse and rsx, you should beat them no contest stock, a friend of mine has a 3g with intake, piping, and full suspension but lost to me by 3 cars and the rsx it jus depends if its turbo or not lol
Oh jesus...
09-13-2006, 06:43 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by Ike
Why do I get the feeling that's a gtech time...
GTech and all accelerometers are very accurate when it comes to times. Notice how I didn't post the estimated WHP that GTech calculated during this run (154 net RWHP), because this is exactly that: a calculated estimate. But the times are almost 99.99% accurate, and that's why I believe them. Zero rollout, big tilt factor, perfectly calibrated, level road. And it did happen twice, in both directions. What more do you need ?
Not to mention that the latest generation of accelerometers are almost as accurate as the clocks in a strip
09-13-2006, 07:20 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by Ike
Oh jesus...
Ike.....its not impossible for people to to "beat" or "outrun" other faster cars in there 8. The other day i ran a guy in his N/A 350Z on a highway that turns into some nice sweepers and S-curves. And you know what on the strait away we both got into it ,tripple digit speeds, and you know what......my 8 was right there with him slowly pulling on him.....Imagine that?
And please don't reply to saying the guy in his 350Z didn't know how to drive, this hasn't been the first encounter i had in my 8 vs a 350Z, i have gone against guys in 350Z's stock and modded who couldn't drive , and this guy that i went against could drive.
When we got to the sweepers he we slowed down for them but i still was a car ahead of him , yet he was hanging with me in the S turns, despite being a car back , he pushed through the turns like a champ.
I said that to say this: The 8 can hold it own with cars that have about -50-70HP more than it has.
Theres' plenty of other cars i embaressed that should of, could of , would of beat me,but didn't.
When i had 2k2 Maxima 6 speed, this guy in his 02 WRX would always race me on my morning commute. Granted on paper this car should wipe my Max clean
, NOT. As we all know WRX/ STi have poor top end. Anyway i got to know this guy, we both modded our cars in the same stages, and still his car would fall flat after 100 mph. He finally upgraded to an 04 Sti. Even in stock form his Sti finally matched my modded Maxima on the top end ...barely. I say that to say this to you, stop getting caught up in HP numbers..... what it comes down to is driver skill and somewhat a capable car. Now of course a RX-8 vs a C6 Corvette(although i have ran down a early 90's 280HPC4 vette and was on his fender ), well we know that match up is pretty silly, which would leave the RX-8 and the driver hanging his head in shame.
I say pick your battle wisely, know the limitations of you car and others and have fun.
09-13-2006, 09:16 AM
#71
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Originally Posted by DailyDriver2k5
Even in stock form his Sti finally matched my modded Maxima on the top end ...barely.
09-13-2006, 10:13 AM
#72
The Prototype
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Originally Posted by dynamho
What mods did you have because I've seen modded station wagons beat stock STi's too.
Mods i had for my 2k2 Maxima,Injen Air Intake System,Throtle body restricter plate off, Upgraded AM600 MAFS ,Custom cat back 2.25" piping w/Cattman muffler(cat back system weighed 15lbs from stainless steel stock 24lbs), Cattman Headers/downpipe, Technosquare ECU upgrade, Grounded electrical system, NGK iridium plugs, Ported and polished Intake plenum.
Stock Whp 210/Stock WTRQ220
After mods
Whp:230 WTRQ235
Was hoping to get better Trq numbers somewhere in the 240-250 range , but would have to stroke it to 3.8 liter. and didn't want to spend 5k+ bucks to do that.
She was fast for what she was...and hung with the best. I really loved the VQ35, being a detuned 350Z motor, it adapted to mods a bit more friendlier than our 350Z siblings. The biggest jump In HP gain was adding the Cattman Headers, talk about a nice kick in the pants in mid to high end range! Fun ride and what a sleeper.....
09-13-2006, 10:44 AM
#73
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At speeds past 100 mph it's seems largely about drag, horsepower, and a perhaps a little bit of vehicle mass.
Assuming your friend's STi's transmission loses 23.3% of it's horsepower, which seems a bit high, your 230whp value seems plausible for the effect you stated. I still would have to see it to be entirely convinced, but I'm not disbelieving it either.
Drive safely.
Assuming your friend's STi's transmission loses 23.3% of it's horsepower, which seems a bit high, your 230whp value seems plausible for the effect you stated. I still would have to see it to be entirely convinced, but I'm not disbelieving it either.
Drive safely.
09-13-2006, 11:23 AM
#75
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Originally Posted by dynamho
At speeds past 100 mph it's seems largely about drag, horsepower, and a perhaps a little bit of vehicle mass.
Assuming your friend's STi's transmission loses 23.3% of it's horsepower, which seems a bit high, your 230whp value seems plausible for the effect you stated. I still would have to see it to be entirely convinced, but I'm not disbelieving it either.
Drive safely.
Assuming your friend's STi's transmission loses 23.3% of it's horsepower, which seems a bit high, your 230whp value seems plausible for the effect you stated. I still would have to see it to be entirely convinced, but I'm not disbelieving it either.
Drive safely.
LoL...we would run and it was neck and neck, now from a stand still, he would always rip me a new one in his STI. Also consider gearing, weight , etc....My max only weighed in at 3220 lbs..... Thats pretty light for a sedan that comes out the box toting 255Hp/ 246Trq mated to a close 6 speed. I know his STi weighed in about 3,300 in change....