Rx8 HP false advertising/Class Action
#26
Originally Posted by Ericok
From a legal standpoint, advertising doesn't have to be literally true. It just can't be deceptive. The circus advertises "the greatest show on earth" although you can make a case that it's not. If Mazda ran tests on engines that produced the advertised HP using scientifically accepted testing procedures, they can use those numbers even if your particular car doesn't deliver. Consumer backlash, which is what is being discussed here, is another matter.
You're talking about what's known as "puffing," as in "The Best Hamburger's This Side of the Mississippi!!!"
But cold, hard data, especially the kind a buyer relies or depends on when making a purchase, has to be accurate.
Of course, there's the whole issue of damages, and how they're calculated based on factual misrepresentations, but that's a whole other can of worms.
#27
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I have a feeling a class action lawsuit against Mazda would would end in favor of the consumers. Then all owners of the RX-8 would get a big ol' $150 check in the mail... Is that worth it, depends on your perspective and if you'd be doing it for money or personal satisfaction. I can guarantee you your resale value the day Mazda loses will drop a hell of a lot more than $150.
#29
The GT500 is SAE certified at 500hp. The certification process is fairly rigorous. Shame the car is such a porker.
Hopefully Mazda will start publishing SAE numbers with new models. As for a lawsuit, since Mazda already ate crow on the HP numbers once, I would bet that they've cover their butts on the new number pretty well.
I notice the new models say 232. I assume that was a tuning tweak?
Hopefully Mazda will start publishing SAE numbers with new models. As for a lawsuit, since Mazda already ate crow on the HP numbers once, I would bet that they've cover their butts on the new number pretty well.
I notice the new models say 232. I assume that was a tuning tweak?
#30
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To me, its not rev or horsepower - its the ratio of revs to wheel rotations - how many times does the rotar have to run around before the wheel turns over..
does it have enough power to turn the wheel around to go 60, 80, or whatever miles per hours, uphill if you have 1000 pounds of load inside the car - Now this information, to my micro mind, would make more sense, than how fast the engine can spin without a load - also how much power is lost though the transmission, especially on a hill? This is important because it will give some idea about how much energy must be lost as heat instead of work! I would like to see some number crunching on this...
does it have enough power to turn the wheel around to go 60, 80, or whatever miles per hours, uphill if you have 1000 pounds of load inside the car - Now this information, to my micro mind, would make more sense, than how fast the engine can spin without a load - also how much power is lost though the transmission, especially on a hill? This is important because it will give some idea about how much energy must be lost as heat instead of work! I would like to see some number crunching on this...
#32
Rotary , eh?
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Originally Posted by Ike
I have a feeling a class action lawsuit against Mazda would would end in favor of the consumers. Then all owners of the RX-8 would get a big ol' $150 check in the mail... Is that worth it, depends on your perspective and if you'd be doing it for money or personal satisfaction. I can guarantee you your resale value the day Mazda loses will drop a hell of a lot more than $150.
I have to agree with you here, Ike. Class action law suits dont do anything except make a lawyer rich.
#33
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Originally Posted by Roland
The GT500 is SAE certified at 500hp. The certification process is fairly rigorous. Shame the car is such a porker.
Hopefully Mazda will start publishing SAE numbers with new models. As for a lawsuit, since Mazda already ate crow on the HP numbers once, I would bet that they've cover their butts on the new number pretty well.
I notice the new models say 232. I assume that was a tuning tweak?
Hopefully Mazda will start publishing SAE numbers with new models. As for a lawsuit, since Mazda already ate crow on the HP numbers once, I would bet that they've cover their butts on the new number pretty well.
I notice the new models say 232. I assume that was a tuning tweak?
#34
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It's already been certified by the new rigorous SAE system to have 232 bhp and yet the pissing contest on this board still goes on.
Forget all this, from now on I'm going to advertise my car as having 1000 bhp (brake hamster power).
Forget all this, from now on I'm going to advertise my car as having 1000 bhp (brake hamster power).
#35
false advertisement
Originally Posted by zeblien
Since the car, even today, is still advertised with much higher HP then anyone on this forum would say the get, why hasnt anyone sued Mazda for false advertising?
Seems to make sence unless that the HP being advertised can not legaly be promised, inwhich case, why didnt mazda just say the car has 500hp.
Seems to make sence unless that the HP being advertised can not legaly be promised, inwhich case, why didnt mazda just say the car has 500hp.
#36
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Originally Posted by zeblien
Since the car, even today, is still advertised with much higher HP then anyone on this forum would say the get, why hasnt anyone sued Mazda for false advertising?
Seems to make sence unless that the HP being advertised can not legaly be promised, inwhich case, why didnt mazda just say the car has 500hp.
Seems to make sence unless that the HP being advertised can not legaly be promised, inwhich case, why didnt mazda just say the car has 500hp.
Sometimes HP is irrelevant. Just be happy with the 8
Last edited by puch96; 09-27-2006 at 06:58 PM.
#37
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Originally Posted by bbybmrzmr
i worked for mazda as a salesman in 2003. The 8 had just arrived with hp numbers rating 247hp. in about 3 or 4 months mazda had to change the nunbers from 247 to 238hp. Mazda sent letters to all buyers who bought before the horsepower change, a full refund(including dealer mark-up) or a 4 year extended warrenty. i dont know of anything else after that.
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
they offered to buy back your car (got that part right) OR (and here is where you went wrong) if you kept the car they would give you $500 dollars (in the form of a debit card usable anywhere) plus give you free factory scheduled maintenance for the life of your warranty.
there was no warranty extension for the HP re-statement.
#38
Rotary Wanker
Originally Posted by mac11
I have to agree with you here, Ike. Class action law suits dont do anything except make a lawyer rich.
#39
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Originally Posted by Ericok
Any class action settlement that I've gotten consisted of a coupon
#40
![Crying](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/crying.gif)
![Crying](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/crying.gif)
![Crying](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/crying.gif)
You may have a point, but unless you bought your car in 2003 you hav enothing to complain about.
And even then it is questionable since they offered you to but the car back.
But I love crying anyways.. so........
![Crying](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/crying.gif)
![Crying](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/crying.gif)
![Crying](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/crying.gif)
I like this thread.
Sincerly,
8CRYBBY
#41
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Originally Posted by SoFL_RX8
Youd spend more money proving your point than youd get out of the suit... at least thats what I would think going up against MNAO.
![Wink](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#42
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A class action lawsuit would make the 8s rep even more tarnished thus affecting our resale more.
BUT perhaps threatening Mazda with a lawsuit would teach them not to keep overstating hp in the future. I mean to have you vehicles power restated 3 times and still have people wonder about the hp makes one look bad.
I know for myself, if there is one more restatement of the RX8s hp than resale or not, I would look for a buyback, class action, something.
Quick scenario. IF THE RX8S ENGINE WAS RESTATED AT 220 HP TODAY, WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM MAZDA OR DO TO MAZDA? PLEASE, PLEASE BE HONEST!
BUT perhaps threatening Mazda with a lawsuit would teach them not to keep overstating hp in the future. I mean to have you vehicles power restated 3 times and still have people wonder about the hp makes one look bad.
I know for myself, if there is one more restatement of the RX8s hp than resale or not, I would look for a buyback, class action, something.
Quick scenario. IF THE RX8S ENGINE WAS RESTATED AT 220 HP TODAY, WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM MAZDA OR DO TO MAZDA? PLEASE, PLEASE BE HONEST!
#43
far as i know, they only changed the numbers once. and they offered buybacks and incentives for people who bought before the numbers were changed.
after that the hp numbers were changed for all cars when the ratings system changed, it wasn't due to anything mazda did.
after that the hp numbers were changed for all cars when the ratings system changed, it wasn't due to anything mazda did.
#44
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Originally Posted by mysql101
far as i know, they only changed the numbers once. and they offered buybacks and incentives for people who bought before the numbers were changed.
after that the hp numbers were changed for all cars when the ratings system changed, it wasn't due to anything mazda did.
after that the hp numbers were changed for all cars when the ratings system changed, it wasn't due to anything mazda did.
That's 3 times. Even if one was from a outside source. Mazda has taken the last number as its rating.
#45
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250 was never a real number. it was never on the window sticker so cant count it. (but it wa son a brochure blah blah blah- it was never th enumber that any car EVER hit the dealerships with on its sticker)
247 to 238 is once.
then they changed to a new standard and under that standard it is 232. thats not a second re-statement. of course we can argue that for years- and we already have
247 to 238 is once.
then they changed to a new standard and under that standard it is 232. thats not a second re-statement. of course we can argue that for years- and we already have
#46
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Originally Posted by zoom44
250 was never a real number. it was never on the window sticker so cant count it. (but it wa son a brochure blah blah blah- it was never th enumber that any car EVER hit the dealerships with on its sticker)
247 to 238 is once.
then they changed to a new standard and under that standard it is 232. thats not a second re-statement. of course we can argue that for years- and we already have
247 to 238 is once.
then they changed to a new standard and under that standard it is 232. thats not a second re-statement. of course we can argue that for years- and we already have
#47
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250 was the estimated HP. Defined here But just in case you're lazy - here's the important part:
2 a : to judge tentatively or approximately the value, worth, or significance of b : to determine roughly the size, extent, or nature of
247 was the actual HP declared by Mazda. That's one, for those counting.
238 was the "oops - our bad" # given by Mazda w/a buy back option.
232 is based on a new calculation, which lead to an industry wide change.
Get over it.
2 a : to judge tentatively or approximately the value, worth, or significance of b : to determine roughly the size, extent, or nature of
247 was the actual HP declared by Mazda. That's one, for those counting.
238 was the "oops - our bad" # given by Mazda w/a buy back option.
232 is based on a new calculation, which lead to an industry wide change.
Get over it.
#48
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Originally Posted by TALAN7
NO 250-247-232 is 3. .... I had Mazda's brochure
#50
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Originally Posted by zoom44
even if we go with your numbers that would only be 2 changes as you have written it not 3. and we cant use your numbers especially since you have used the brochure arguement again even though i pointed out you cant use it in my previous post
250-247 1!
247-238 2!
SAE STANDARDS SAY RX8 MAKES 232 HP. MAZDA TAKES THIS #, DECIDES TO PLACE ON STICKER, ON CURRENT ADS ETC.
238-232 3!
IF WE GO WITH WHAT RACING BEAT GOT (THE MOST REPUTABLE ROTARY TUNER),
WE WOULD BE AT AROUND 220 HP.