RX8 and RSX
11-07-2006, 10:24 AM
#77
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
I owned a 2004 Rx8 and sold it for various frustrations. Currently own a 2005 RSX (actually it's an Integra Type-S in OZ, but anyhoo).
I've owned 4 rotaries now, and objectively the RSX is just as fun as all of them, Rx8 included.
Dont let FWD fool you, Honda/Acura went out of their way to make an awesome handling car in FWD, and they succeeded. Yes, it is probably not as top notch in outright handling compared to the Rx8, but having owned both, I can tell you, it's bloody close. The RSX is extremely understated. To me, the RSX feels as quick, it pulls damn hard. It's a good feeling to be able to control fuel economy too: keep it under 5800 rpm and your'e sucking hardly any fuel, if you wanna have some fun wind it out 8300 and let it screeeeaam.
turn up the volume!
http://www.agoraphone.com/prerecorded/acura_prclip.html
I've owned 4 rotaries now, and objectively the RSX is just as fun as all of them, Rx8 included.
Dont let FWD fool you, Honda/Acura went out of their way to make an awesome handling car in FWD, and they succeeded. Yes, it is probably not as top notch in outright handling compared to the Rx8, but having owned both, I can tell you, it's bloody close. The RSX is extremely understated. To me, the RSX feels as quick, it pulls damn hard. It's a good feeling to be able to control fuel economy too: keep it under 5800 rpm and your'e sucking hardly any fuel, if you wanna have some fun wind it out 8300 and let it screeeeaam.
turn up the volume!
http://www.agoraphone.com/prerecorded/acura_prclip.html
11-07-2006, 11:04 AM
#78
Still hate Hondas, know why? They don't have one iconic car. Nothing, plainsville. They're on the cover of Consumer Reports not C&D.
Icons:
Chevy -- Vette
Ford -- Mustang
Mazda RX, Miata
Nissan Z
Dodge Charger
Toyota Supra
Honda Civic ?!?!?
The S2000 performs better then the Miata but the miata is the car everything else is compared to. If you want an S2000 just get an Elise it is soooo far superior it's silly.
Blech, Honda has lovely reliable technology. The vtech engine is amazing, CVT great. But it's still a honda. It's like an ugly girl that's in GREAT shape. Who cares.
:P NH
Icons:
Chevy -- Vette
Ford -- Mustang
Mazda RX, Miata
Nissan Z
Dodge Charger
Toyota Supra
Honda Civic ?!?!?
The S2000 performs better then the Miata but the miata is the car everything else is compared to. If you want an S2000 just get an Elise it is soooo far superior it's silly.
Blech, Honda has lovely reliable technology. The vtech engine is amazing, CVT great. But it's still a honda. It's like an ugly girl that's in GREAT shape. Who cares.
:P NH
11-07-2006, 11:33 AM
#79
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Originally Posted by Smileynh
If you want an S2000 just get an Elise it is soooo far superior it's silly.
thats like saying if you want an rx8 just get an m3 its silly.
11-07-2006, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ike
1.) They're just showing the gear ratios and the speed compared to RPMs, they're not showing where they shift.
...so more reasons why YOU ARE WRONG, I'll spell it out. I'm sure you have the "Fourgasm" Car&Driver issue, where they tested all the modded Evo's. Look at the test summary at the back where it describes testing proceedures, it's almost as if they wrote it for you when they say "redline is never exceeded."
So, once again, the low 95/96mph trap speeds of the 8 - that you've spent 3426 threads on - is done with a 9000rpm redline shift, not using the the 500rpm overrev.
11-07-2006, 11:54 AM
#81
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I dont get it... why would you want to over rev it? or even shift at redline? the best shift point is somewhere befor the redline... shifting at or past redline just slows you down?
11-07-2006, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by playdoh43
I dont get it... why would you want to over rev it? or even shift at redline? the best shift point is somewhere befor the redline... shifting at or past redline just slows you down?
All mags have tested the 8 at low 95/96mph traps, shifting at redline as a rule. If you actually drove an 8, you’d know that the shift into 4th at redline feels like driving into wet concrete, it takes a couple of moments but then its back onto decent power. This is what kills the 8’s trap speed in the quarter. Cars with more torque aren’t as exposed to this, nor are cars that have the fuel consumption issues of the 8 that I’m sure has influenced gear ratio selection. As a former kart racer, you must have played with rear sprockets sizes to suit particular tracks, I still have a set in the garage to use with my sport bike. Yet you don’t get it. Aerodynamics and weight are other factors, but this thread getting long enough.
Won't make the 8 into a Z beater, but I'll improve your times and traps.
11-07-2006, 12:53 PM
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it dosnt work like that bro, you are not taking into account of the power lost at the top of the rev range by going to or past redline
the 6mt rx8 makes it peak hp at 8500rpm, anywhere past that RPM you are loosing power fast. if you wait till 9500rpm to shift, you are going to spend an entire 1000RPM while loosing power. It actually slows you down down more than shift at or before redline. furthermore, the max torque comes around 5500rpm, so when you shift you want to land somewhere around there instead of 7000+
There is a whole formula to calculate your optimal shift point based on your powercurve for the best acceleration, that point is ALWAYS before redline. shifting at or after redline just slows you down
the 6mt rx8 makes it peak hp at 8500rpm, anywhere past that RPM you are loosing power fast. if you wait till 9500rpm to shift, you are going to spend an entire 1000RPM while loosing power. It actually slows you down down more than shift at or before redline. furthermore, the max torque comes around 5500rpm, so when you shift you want to land somewhere around there instead of 7000+
There is a whole formula to calculate your optimal shift point based on your powercurve for the best acceleration, that point is ALWAYS before redline. shifting at or after redline just slows you down
11-07-2006, 12:55 PM
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http://www.bgsoflex.com/shifter.html --you can use this site to find relatively where the optimal shift point is for each gear
as far as i know... in general the optimal shift point is about 2-3 hundred rpms after the point where it makes its peak hp.
as far as i know... in general the optimal shift point is about 2-3 hundred rpms after the point where it makes its peak hp.
Last edited by playdoh43; 11-07-2006 at 01:06 PM.
11-07-2006, 01:01 PM
#85
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^^Must be why so many cars are limited right at the damn start of the redline. That and the engine can't handle it like the rotary. 
But seriously, about lucifuge's post, I can tell you from first hand experiance that the RX-8 is FAR superior in the handling department. And that is with struts, sways, and tires on the RSX. RX-8 will outhandle RSX any day. And another thing, the RSX vtec is kick *** but I made three passes with it (redlining the first 2 and 7000 on the second) and after the third I caught a whiff of something very strong. With the 8 I could make passes all day long and she would willingly go on.
^^^^ Keep in mind I am talking about the 03s, don't know much about the next generation or if they beefed up the suspension.
But seriously, about lucifuge's post, I can tell you from first hand experiance that the RX-8 is FAR superior in the handling department. And that is with struts, sways, and tires on the RSX. RX-8 will outhandle RSX any day. And another thing, the RSX vtec is kick *** but I made three passes with it (redlining the first 2 and 7000 on the second) and after the third I caught a whiff of something very strong. With the 8 I could make passes all day long and she would willingly go on.^^^^ Keep in mind I am talking about the 03s, don't know much about the next generation or if they beefed up the suspension.
11-07-2006, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by playdoh43
it dosnt work like that bro, you are not taking into account of the power lost at the top of the rev range by going to or past redline
the 6mt rx8 makes it peak hp at 8500rpm, anywhere past that RPM you are loosing power fast. if you wait till 9500rpm to shift, you are going to spend an entire 1000RPM while loosing power. It actually slows you down down more than shift at or before redline. furthermore, the max torque comes around 5500rpm, so when you shift you want to land somewhere around there instead of 7000+
There is a whole formula to calculate your optimal shift point based on your powercurve for the best acceleration, that point is ALWAYS before redline. shifting at or after redline just slows you down
the 6mt rx8 makes it peak hp at 8500rpm, anywhere past that RPM you are loosing power fast. if you wait till 9500rpm to shift, you are going to spend an entire 1000RPM while loosing power. It actually slows you down down more than shift at or before redline. furthermore, the max torque comes around 5500rpm, so when you shift you want to land somewhere around there instead of 7000+
There is a whole formula to calculate your optimal shift point based on your powercurve for the best acceleration, that point is ALWAYS before redline. shifting at or after redline just slows you down
Yes, peak power is at 8500, but is it lower at over 9000rpm vs. 6000 rpm?
11-07-2006, 01:44 PM
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sounds like psychological to me. i dont know where it is for sure but the max shift point is somewhere between 8500 and 9000 rpm. please keep in mind its not just a function of hp, its a function of torque and gear ratio too.
normally the optimal shift point is 2-3 hundred rpms after peak hp, so in the rx8's case it should be 8700 or 8800 rpm roughly. Mazda or any car maker simply wouldnt tune the engine to have optimal shift point past redline. its all about the compromize between maximizing the acceleration after you drop into the new gear AND minimizing the loss of acceleration after peak hp.
normally the optimal shift point is 2-3 hundred rpms after peak hp, so in the rx8's case it should be 8700 or 8800 rpm roughly. Mazda or any car maker simply wouldnt tune the engine to have optimal shift point past redline. its all about the compromize between maximizing the acceleration after you drop into the new gear AND minimizing the loss of acceleration after peak hp.
Last edited by playdoh43; 11-07-2006 at 01:47 PM.
11-07-2006, 01:52 PM
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https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...um+shift+point just read this thread it shows rx8 is an abberation. so you are probably right! due to the crappy torque curve of the rx8 :p, but well i still wouldnt shift at 9500 though
Last edited by playdoh43; 11-07-2006 at 02:01 PM.
11-07-2006, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lucifuge
Dont let FWD fool you, Honda/Acura went out of their way to make an awesome handling car in FWD, and they succeeded. Yes, it is probably not as top notch in outright handling compared to the Rx8, but having owned both, I can tell you, it's bloody close.
11-07-2006, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by playdoh43
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...um+shift+point just read this thread it shows rx8 is an abberation. so you are probably right!
On small displacement sportbikes the overrev is actually a selling point, allows you to hang on to gears longer or again, shift into the meat of the next gear. Also a nice autox feature of the 8.
My point all along is, a 500rpm overrev is a rarity with cars. Even the s2000 only allows the usual 200rpm overrev. I'd love to see a formal test using the overrev, I betcha its good for atleast a couple of mph on a 1/4 mile trap.
11-07-2006, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by playdoh43
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...um+shift+point just read this thread it shows rx8 is an abberation. so you are probably right! due to the crappy torque curve of the rx8 :p, but well i still wouldnt shift at 9500 though
11-07-2006, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by abbid
The RB flash will put you to 100 MPH in 3rd instead of 92.
11-07-2006, 02:26 PM
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i wasnt paying attention to waht you and 90210 were arguing about Ike. I was just responding to his comment about shifting after redline...
i think the OP in that thread should have made 1st gear shift at ~8850rpm then hed land around 5500rpm instead of 5670... , that should give 2nd gear more pull? i think he just did his math based on shifting at 9000rpm in first.
i think the OP in that thread should have made 1st gear shift at ~8850rpm then hed land around 5500rpm instead of 5670... , that should give 2nd gear more pull? i think he just did his math based on shifting at 9000rpm in first.
11-07-2006, 03:55 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by SlowLude
You can't compensate a FWD for a RWD with technology. No matter how you put it, power will be delivered to either the front or the rear of a vehicle making a different driving feel. FWD drive is great for winter driving, but it can have too much torque steer and its no 'fun' in the snow if you like to play around.
You (and others) may have driven an RSX, maybe not. All I can say is, I had never driven one and was blown away when I did. So much so, I sold my Rx8 for one.
The RSX doesnt have any torque steer and if I want to play in the snow I'll go skiing.
11-07-2006, 04:27 PM
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my girlfriend owns a 04 rsx-s, and i drive it a lot!!
i mean, the rsx-s are not slow, especially when the v-tech kicks in. but i still think the rx8 is faster, at least mine feels faster! and a stock rsx-s handle sucks, the shocks are too soft, feels like the car is bouncing all over the place!! a lot of body roll.
but one think you cant beat it is it has really good gas mileage!!
i mean, the rsx-s are not slow, especially when the v-tech kicks in. but i still think the rx8 is faster, at least mine feels faster! and a stock rsx-s handle sucks, the shocks are too soft, feels like the car is bouncing all over the place!! a lot of body roll.
but one think you cant beat it is it has really good gas mileage!!
11-07-2006, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Smileynh
Still hate Hondas, know why? They don't have one iconic car. Nothing, plainsville. They're on the cover of Consumer Reports not C&D.
Icons:
Chevy -- Vette
Ford -- Mustang
Mazda RX, Miata
Nissan Z
Dodge Charger
Toyota Supra
Honda Civic ?!?!?
The S2000 performs better then the Miata but the miata is the car everything else is compared to. If you want an S2000 just get an Elise it is soooo far superior it's silly.
Blech, Honda has lovely reliable technology. The vtech engine is amazing, CVT great. But it's still a honda. It's like an ugly girl that's in GREAT shape. Who cares.
:P NH
Icons:
Chevy -- Vette
Ford -- Mustang
Mazda RX, Miata
Nissan Z
Dodge Charger
Toyota Supra
Honda Civic ?!?!?
The S2000 performs better then the Miata but the miata is the car everything else is compared to. If you want an S2000 just get an Elise it is soooo far superior it's silly.
Blech, Honda has lovely reliable technology. The vtech engine is amazing, CVT great. But it's still a honda. It's like an ugly girl that's in GREAT shape. Who cares.
:P NH
Honda NSX S2000 type-R
11-07-2006, 07:06 PM
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Honda knows how to make a car...however, most of them are exactly what the average consumer wants: Inexpensive, reliable, safe and fuel efficient. They do try to factor in some sport to some of their models, but it's still that base econobox underneath.
Honda makes a great car, and Toyota does it even better.
Honda makes a great car, and Toyota does it even better.