rx8 or s2000
12-03-2007, 06:40 PM
#126
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There's just no seeing reality in some of you! Here we have the latest in a long line of incredibly stupid "RX-8 vs. S2000" threads. We have the usual suspects saying that the cars are comparable performance-wise, showing their ignorance. One of them trots out a magazine test, and says that that shows the cars are comparable, ignoring (i) all the other magazine tests which showed otherwise, and the fact that even that test showed the S2000 to be slightly faster 0-60, and over two seconds (that's TWO SECONDS, a HUGE difference) faster on 0-100. And proclaims that they aren't in different classes. Despite the simple, incontrovertible fact that they are.
As it happens, unlike almost everyone else in this thread, I own both an S2000 (bought new in April 2004) and an RX-8 (bought new in December 2004, which I drive at least a couple of times a week, including having autocrossed in an RX-8 a few times). I like and appreciate both cars. And I'm aware of the significant shortcomings in both cars. It just might be that I'm better qualified than you, or anyone else in this thread, to evaluate the two cars.
But I know that reality doesn't really have much impression on true fanbois, who, for some reason, feel threatened by any assertion that they are not driving the world's most fantastic car.
As it happens, unlike almost everyone else in this thread, I own both an S2000 (bought new in April 2004) and an RX-8 (bought new in December 2004, which I drive at least a couple of times a week, including having autocrossed in an RX-8 a few times). I like and appreciate both cars. And I'm aware of the significant shortcomings in both cars. It just might be that I'm better qualified than you, or anyone else in this thread, to evaluate the two cars.
But I know that reality doesn't really have much impression on true fanbois, who, for some reason, feel threatened by any assertion that they are not driving the world's most fantastic car.
12-03-2007, 06:40 PM
#127
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It is never a matter of "not thinking much of." All of these cars people compare have different missions, and they by and large succeed in doing what they were designed to do.
What gets people into these often useless comparisons is that while these vehicles are aimed at a certain demographic and price point- they are all very different from each other, and the choice becomes extremely personal.
As an example, I cannot consider owning ANY 2 seater, regardless of it's merits, as long as I have my two beautiful daughters around. Having said that, as a life long sports car fanatic, and having owned some fairly exotic machinery, (including a much loved 124 Spider 1800) the RX-8 is as close to perfection in a car as I can get. It does what I want it to do with very little sacrifice on my part. I cannot consider owning any of the "boy racer" Jap sedans either, and wouldn't want one to live with. But again, it gets down to what you want your car to do for you. The rest is bullshit.
What gets people into these often useless comparisons is that while these vehicles are aimed at a certain demographic and price point- they are all very different from each other, and the choice becomes extremely personal.
As an example, I cannot consider owning ANY 2 seater, regardless of it's merits, as long as I have my two beautiful daughters around. Having said that, as a life long sports car fanatic, and having owned some fairly exotic machinery, (including a much loved 124 Spider 1800) the RX-8 is as close to perfection in a car as I can get. It does what I want it to do with very little sacrifice on my part. I cannot consider owning any of the "boy racer" Jap sedans either, and wouldn't want one to live with. But again, it gets down to what you want your car to do for you. The rest is bullshit.
I especially liked the kind reference to the 124 Spider, of which I've owned two.
12-03-2007, 06:43 PM
#128
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You might consider at least making up your mind, if not joining the real world.
12-03-2007, 06:47 PM
#129
"Is that thing FWD??"
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I realize what the point of this thread is, but thank you for the sarcasm, it was very beneficial to us all. I misunderstood what he was trying to say, I thought he meant it was first on the list.
12-03-2007, 06:54 PM
#130
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There's just no seeing reality in some of you! Here we have the latest in a long line of incredibly stupid "RX-8 vs. S2000" threads. We have the usual suspects saying that the cars are comparable performance-wise, showing their ignorance. One of them trots out a magazine test, and says that that shows the cars are comparable, ignoring (i) all the other magazine tests which showed otherwise, and the fact that even that test showed the S2000 to be slightly faster 0-60, and over two seconds (that's TWO SECONDS, a HUGE difference) faster on 0-100. And proclaims that they aren't in different classes. Despite the simple, incontrovertible fact that they are.
As it happens, unlike almost everyone else in this thread, I own both an S2000 (bought new in April 2004) and an RX-8 (bought new in December 2004, which I drive at least a couple of times a week, including having autocrossed in an RX-8 a few times). I like and appreciate both cars. And I'm aware of the significant shortcomings in both cars. It just might be that I'm better qualified than you, or anyone else in this thread, to evaluate the two cars.
But I know that reality doesn't really have much impression on true fanbois, who, for some reason, feel threatened by any assertion that they are not driving the world's most fantastic car.
As it happens, unlike almost everyone else in this thread, I own both an S2000 (bought new in April 2004) and an RX-8 (bought new in December 2004, which I drive at least a couple of times a week, including having autocrossed in an RX-8 a few times). I like and appreciate both cars. And I'm aware of the significant shortcomings in both cars. It just might be that I'm better qualified than you, or anyone else in this thread, to evaluate the two cars.
But I know that reality doesn't really have much impression on true fanbois, who, for some reason, feel threatened by any assertion that they are not driving the world's most fantastic car.
12-03-2007, 07:08 PM
#131
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Please think before you post. I was one of the people who for the most part agreed with you. Go back and read my post, don't go around saying you're more qualified than anyone else and no one else is willing to look subjectively at both cars. I own a RX-8 and my father owns a '04 S2000(bought new) which I have driven and raced many times, I believe my description of both was fair and realistic.
1. I said "I just might be better qualified," which is not an absolute assertion that I am. I see nothing wrong with asserting such a thing, when I drive both cars almost daily (and have driven both cars in sanctioned racing events).
2. In addition, I was "arguing," not with you, but with someone who obviously doesn't own both cars. Aside from the actual words I used, the simple context of my post was that one who doesn't own both cars (and certainly has limited or no experience with the S2000) just "might not be better qualified" than one who owns, and daily drives, both.
3. I certainly wasn't responding to you when I said that, or (as far as I remember) disagreeing with anything you said.
So, please unbunch those panties and carry on.
12-03-2007, 07:25 PM
#132
"Is that thing FWD??"
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Please, read before you post. A bit of thinking might not be a bad thing either.
1. I said "I just might be better qualified," which is not an absolute assertion that I am. I see nothing wrong with asserting such a thing, when I drive both cars almost daily (and have driven both cars in sanctioned racing events).
2. In addition, I was "arguing," not with you, but with someone who obviously doesn't own both cars. Aside from the actual words I used, the simple context of my post was that one who doesn't own both cars (and certainly has limited or no experience with the S2000) just "might not be better qualified" than one who owns, and daily drives, both.
3. I certainly wasn't responding to you when I said that, or (as far as I remember) disagreeing with anything you said.
So, please unbunch those panties and carry on.
1. I said "I just might be better qualified," which is not an absolute assertion that I am. I see nothing wrong with asserting such a thing, when I drive both cars almost daily (and have driven both cars in sanctioned racing events).
2. In addition, I was "arguing," not with you, but with someone who obviously doesn't own both cars. Aside from the actual words I used, the simple context of my post was that one who doesn't own both cars (and certainly has limited or no experience with the S2000) just "might not be better qualified" than one who owns, and daily drives, both.
3. I certainly wasn't responding to you when I said that, or (as far as I remember) disagreeing with anything you said.
So, please unbunch those panties and carry on.
12-03-2007, 07:34 PM
#133
There's a few references over the last couple pages about the S being a purpose-built racecar. If it's such a narrowly-focused *****-to-the-wall machine how come it doesn't play in the big leagues (i.e. Super Stock)? Also, who's the genius who chose to cast the suspension arms out of probably the worst (and heaviest) material available on this uber-performance machine? It edges out the 8 in just about all performance parameters; but given the 8 is an obscenely more well-rounded car, is that really a such a boastful achievement?
12-03-2007, 07:44 PM
#134
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Don't make arrogant claims to know more about a subject than everyone else when you have nothing to base your claims off of. It would seem that you are the one who needs to "unbunch those panties" seeing as how you are the one arguing with everyone and their grandmother in this thread. You have done more arguing and bashing people in this thread than you have discussing the issue at hand and providing any evidence to support your opinion. You're clearly firm in your opinion and won't listen to anyone else(even though I for the most part agree with you) so why bother discussing it anymore? I'm not going to get drawn into an E-pissing match with you over this so i'll just leave it at that.
It would be nice if you actually would read, and understand, the words I wrote, rather than choosing to change them, and then get mad at me over your choice of words I didn't actually use.
As for evidence, I've noted fact after fact; the mere fact (there's that word again) that many choose to ignore facts is hardly my problem.
As for "bashing," I actually ignored the odd claim that the 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata is somehow faster and more agile than the S2000, despite the the fact that it's neither. Despite the fact that Mazda was selling them for less than $20,000, brand new, at the end of 2004, they had trouble getting rid of them. And they haven't even made a dent in the autocross world. You should be grateful.
12-03-2007, 07:51 PM
#135
"Is that thing FWD??"
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Stock for stock the S2k is faster, but having a turbo makes gaining hp really easy with a few modifications 
And looking back I did send some aggression towards you that wasn't meant for you. I was arguing with the wife and somehow kept arguing when I sat down, my apologies.
And looking back I did send some aggression towards you that wasn't meant for you. I was arguing with the wife and somehow kept arguing when I sat down, my apologies.
12-03-2007, 08:00 PM
#136
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Stock for stock the S2k is faster, but having a turbo makes gaining hp really easy with a few modifications
And looking back I did send some aggression towards you that wasn't meant for you. I was arguing with the wife and somehow kept arguing when I sat down, my apologies.
And looking back I did send some aggression towards you that wasn't meant for you. I was arguing with the wife and somehow kept arguing when I sat down, my apologies.
True story: I tried to get my wife to buy the MS Miata in December 2004, when they were almost giving them away. Instead, she fell in love with the RX-8 (they were almost giving those away, also), and here we are.
It is true that, once a car is properly and safely equipped with a turbo, it often is remarkably easy to increase the usable power, which can be a lot of fun!
12-03-2007, 08:05 PM
#137
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12-03-2007, 08:31 PM
#139
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Not a fanboi? You suggested a stock Evo was faster than a C6. You should have been laughed out of here then!
And yeah, you said fanboi before me bud...I'm being realistic when I simply said the S2000 isn't in a different universe of performance as was being suggested, I think I've said 95% of the performance years ago on this site.
And yeah, you said fanboi before me bud...I'm being realistic when I simply said the S2000 isn't in a different universe of performance as was being suggested, I think I've said 95% of the performance years ago on this site.
I'd also like to see where anyone but yourself said the S2000 in a "different universe of performance" when compared to the RX-8. He said a different class performance wise, thanks to your spectacular reading comprehension and fanboi rage you spun that into something he didn't even intend.
I looked back on some past ckmparison threads and you and your jackass buddies do and say the same thing in these threads. In turn I end up saying the same things defending whatever car happens to be in the comparison. I'm done with it, I'll be ignoring you and your fanboi buddies and I suggest you do the same to me. I'm here to talk about cars, not repeat the same thing over and over again with the same few idiots.
12-03-2007, 09:27 PM
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Kartweb, yes, "stock" includes tires.
And, no, runoffs aren't anything like a reasonable way to measure how "stock" cars stack up, any more than NASCAR is. Those are race-prepared cars, often with allowances to help even out the stock differences between completely different cars, so that they can be competitive with each other. Comparing times of race cars is utterly meaningless for comparing stock cars.
And, no, runoffs aren't anything like a reasonable way to measure how "stock" cars stack up, any more than NASCAR is. Those are race-prepared cars, often with allowances to help even out the stock differences between completely different cars, so that they can be competitive with each other. Comparing times of race cars is utterly meaningless for comparing stock cars.
Having been to every SCCA Runoffs held at Road Atlanta I can recall more then one winner who went to the dealer and bought a new car, installed the rollcage & harness and won. I watched two of them wrecked in practice and qualifying over the years.
To say the SCCA Touring Class is even remotely close to NASCAR is really pretty humorous. Did you know that every Chevy that Richard Childress ever built for Dale Sr had a Ford floorpan from a 70's model? I understand what your wanting to say, but you should take a look at the SCCA GCR and Competition Rulebook before you put up the protest. If you know of a better venue that has actually compared the two cars in reasonably close to stock condition, then by all means, do share that.
Personally I don't care which one is faster, just figured I would post the best results there were. Had the Honda come out on top, I would have posted it just the same.
As for the reason the RX8 resale value is weak, it has a lot more to do with a lack of marketing followed by overproduction. Mazda smply built more cars then they were selling. In 2006 Mazda dumped a large number of excess 2005 models at huge discounts. That decimated the used RX8 market and it never really recovered. It doesn't help that the rotary swallows Dom Perniogn priced gas like a redneck swills lawnmower beer.
12-03-2007, 10:20 PM
#141
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As an SCCA-licensed racer, I have a very firm familiarity with the GCR. All of it. If you think that there's any class, including T3, which allows a comparison of different cars "reasonably close to stock condition," you're dreaming. Hell, just for starters, the 2004 RX-8 in T3 is supposed to weigh only 10 pounds more than the 2004 S2000. Not hardly stock (in which the weight difference is close to 200 pounds). And that's before allowed suspension changes. And various other differences. Note that some of the changes (particularly the minimum weight) are intended to make different cars competitive within the class. That's what they've succeeded in doing, judging from the results you've posted.
As for resale value, you got part of it--they continually over-built the RX-8 (in significant part because the rotary has always appealed to a small group). Add to that the gruesome gas mileage, when gas prices have doubled in the last couple of years, and the price for both new and used suffers greatly. OTOH, the resale value of the S2000 is one of the strongest for any production car.
As for resale value, you got part of it--they continually over-built the RX-8 (in significant part because the rotary has always appealed to a small group). Add to that the gruesome gas mileage, when gas prices have doubled in the last couple of years, and the price for both new and used suffers greatly. OTOH, the resale value of the S2000 is one of the strongest for any production car.
12-03-2007, 11:35 PM
#142
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As long as the tires count....My GT was not a Shinka but came with the same low mileage very sticky tires.
Having been to every SCCA Runoffs held at Road Atlanta I can recall more then one winner who went to the dealer and bought a new car, installed the rollcage & harness and won. I watched two of them wrecked in practice and qualifying over the years.
To say the SCCA Touring Class is even remotely close to NASCAR is really pretty humorous. Did you know that every Chevy that Richard Childress ever built for Dale Sr had a Ford floorpan from a 70's model? I understand what your wanting to say, but you should take a look at the SCCA GCR and Competition Rulebook before you put up the protest. If you know of a better venue that has actually compared the two cars in reasonably close to stock condition, then by all means, do share that.
Personally I don't care which one is faster, just figured I would post the best results there were. Had the Honda come out on top, I would have posted it just the same.
As for the reason the RX8 resale value is weak, it has a lot more to do with a lack of marketing followed by overproduction. Mazda smply built more cars then they were selling. In 2006 Mazda dumped a large number of excess 2005 models at huge discounts. That decimated the used RX8 market and it never really recovered. It doesn't help that the rotary swallows Dom Perniogn priced gas like a redneck swills lawnmower beer.
Having been to every SCCA Runoffs held at Road Atlanta I can recall more then one winner who went to the dealer and bought a new car, installed the rollcage & harness and won. I watched two of them wrecked in practice and qualifying over the years.
To say the SCCA Touring Class is even remotely close to NASCAR is really pretty humorous. Did you know that every Chevy that Richard Childress ever built for Dale Sr had a Ford floorpan from a 70's model? I understand what your wanting to say, but you should take a look at the SCCA GCR and Competition Rulebook before you put up the protest. If you know of a better venue that has actually compared the two cars in reasonably close to stock condition, then by all means, do share that.
Personally I don't care which one is faster, just figured I would post the best results there were. Had the Honda come out on top, I would have posted it just the same.
As for the reason the RX8 resale value is weak, it has a lot more to do with a lack of marketing followed by overproduction. Mazda smply built more cars then they were selling. In 2006 Mazda dumped a large number of excess 2005 models at huge discounts. That decimated the used RX8 market and it never really recovered. It doesn't help that the rotary swallows Dom Perniogn priced gas like a redneck swills lawnmower beer.
SCCA stock solo classes are another comparison, a poor comparison, but solo results are at least a better comparo than you using T3 cars that often have $10K+ worth of work done to them and car specific rules.
12-04-2007, 07:58 AM
#144
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There's a few references over the last couple pages about the S being a purpose-built racecar. If it's such a narrowly-focused *****-to-the-wall machine how come it doesn't play in the big leagues (i.e. Super Stock)? Also, who's the genius who chose to cast the suspension arms out of probably the worst (and heaviest) material available on this uber-performance machine? It edges out the 8 in just about all performance parameters; but given the 8 is an obscenely more well-rounded car, is that really a such a boastful achievement?
why has no one addressed this question? Is the mighty S2000 a fake? It certainly appears by expert posters that it is only a pin ***** faster than the 8 in track runoffs. C'mon 124 spider. Where's your comment on this? Looks like the S with all it's engineering is not all that after all.
Last edited by Roaddemon; 12-04-2007 at 08:11 AM.
12-04-2007, 08:23 AM
#145
1935 lbs. FTW!
This is getting ridiculous. The S2000 is faster, turns better and brakes about the same. The RX-8 is very good and a lot more practical. It just depends on your priorities but in the end the S2000 is superior performance wise if you don't care about anything else.
The S2000 started in B-stock with the RX-8 and 350Z (cars of similar price and supposed performance). It was an overdog and got moved to A-stock where it has won a few national championships including this year. The top A stock time was faster than the 3 time defending B-stock RX-8 national champ. Super stock is reserved for high dollar high power cars like the GT3, C6Z06, Viper etc. The Elise is much more stripped down and hardcore than the S2000 and is barely competitive there (no one has won nationals in one yet) so the S2000 obviously doesn't fit in SS.
Those are my 2cents from having owned both cars and autocrossing just about every weekend in one or the other between March-November the last year.
The S2000 started in B-stock with the RX-8 and 350Z (cars of similar price and supposed performance). It was an overdog and got moved to A-stock where it has won a few national championships including this year. The top A stock time was faster than the 3 time defending B-stock RX-8 national champ. Super stock is reserved for high dollar high power cars like the GT3, C6Z06, Viper etc. The Elise is much more stripped down and hardcore than the S2000 and is barely competitive there (no one has won nationals in one yet) so the S2000 obviously doesn't fit in SS.
Those are my 2cents from having owned both cars and autocrossing just about every weekend in one or the other between March-November the last year.
Last edited by CosmosMpower; 12-04-2007 at 08:29 AM.
12-04-2007, 08:36 AM
#146
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I've driven both and to me they really aren't that much different (I own an 8 of course). To be honest, take the back seats out of the 8 and THEN go back and race. I think the fact that the S2K is quicker is because it also is a bit lighter. All in all. I like both cars. But when considering being realistic about things (actually using your car for stuff) the 8 is the best bang for your buck.
As far as mods: light weight flywheel, light wheels, light brake rotors, pulleys (AP or UR; no others), CAI, exhaust, hi-flo cat, and tune, sways, and shock+springs/coilovers (be careful with coilovers, the 8's suspension is VERY good stock despite it feeling soft), and nevermind how much you gained. Go track the car and see what you think.
By the way, you could just get a flywheel and pulley with a tune and go to race school. I'm not saying you can't drive or haven't been. I'm just pointing out the fact that most people are inexperienced when it comes to the nitty gritty of driving fast.
As far as mods: light weight flywheel, light wheels, light brake rotors, pulleys (AP or UR; no others), CAI, exhaust, hi-flo cat, and tune, sways, and shock+springs/coilovers (be careful with coilovers, the 8's suspension is VERY good stock despite it feeling soft), and nevermind how much you gained. Go track the car and see what you think.
By the way, you could just get a flywheel and pulley with a tune and go to race school. I'm not saying you can't drive or haven't been. I'm just pointing out the fact that most people are inexperienced when it comes to the nitty gritty of driving fast.
12-04-2007, 08:37 AM
#147
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This is getting ridiculous. The S2000 is faster, turns better and brakes about the same. The RX-8 is very good and a lot more practical. It just depends on your priorities but in the end the S2000 is superior performance wise if you don't care about anything else.
The S2000 started in B-stock with the RX-8 and 350Z (cars of similar price and supposed performance). It was an overdog and got moved to A-stock where it has won a few national championships including this year. The top A stock time was faster than the 3 time defending B-stock RX-8 national champ. Super stock is reserved for high dollar high power cars like the GT3, C6Z06, Viper etc. The Elise is much more stripped down and hardcore than the S2000 and is barely competitive there (no one has won nationals in one yet) so the S2000 obviously doesn't fit in SS.
Those are my 2cents from having owned both cars and autocrossing just about every weekend in one or the other between March-November the last year.
The S2000 started in B-stock with the RX-8 and 350Z (cars of similar price and supposed performance). It was an overdog and got moved to A-stock where it has won a few national championships including this year. The top A stock time was faster than the 3 time defending B-stock RX-8 national champ. Super stock is reserved for high dollar high power cars like the GT3, C6Z06, Viper etc. The Elise is much more stripped down and hardcore than the S2000 and is barely competitive there (no one has won nationals in one yet) so the S2000 obviously doesn't fit in SS.
Those are my 2cents from having owned both cars and autocrossing just about every weekend in one or the other between March-November the last year.
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12-04-2007, 08:53 AM
#148
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This is getting ridiculous. The S2000 is faster, turns better and brakes about the same. The RX-8 is very good and a lot more practical. It just depends on your priorities but in the end the S2000 is superior performance wise if you don't care about anything else.
The S2000 started in B-stock with the RX-8 and 350Z (cars of similar price and supposed performance). It was an overdog and got moved to A-stock where it has won a few national championships including this year. The top A stock time was faster than the 3 time defending B-stock RX-8 national champ. Super stock is reserved for high dollar high power cars like the GT3, C6Z06, Viper etc. The Elise is much more stripped down and hardcore than the S2000 and is barely competitive there (no one has won nationals in one yet) so the S2000 obviously doesn't fit in SS.
Those are my 2cents from having owned both cars and autocrossing just about every weekend in one or the other between March-November the last year.
The S2000 started in B-stock with the RX-8 and 350Z (cars of similar price and supposed performance). It was an overdog and got moved to A-stock where it has won a few national championships including this year. The top A stock time was faster than the 3 time defending B-stock RX-8 national champ. Super stock is reserved for high dollar high power cars like the GT3, C6Z06, Viper etc. The Elise is much more stripped down and hardcore than the S2000 and is barely competitive there (no one has won nationals in one yet) so the S2000 obviously doesn't fit in SS.
Those are my 2cents from having owned both cars and autocrossing just about every weekend in one or the other between March-November the last year.
So are you saying price and hp are what keeps these little mighty mouses out of the superstock? Is the S engineering good enough to compete and win super stock if Honda gave it a hp boost to say 320hp. How bout the new 16b rotary comming out. Would it qualify for A-stock. I guess that one is a wait and see.
12-04-2007, 10:19 AM
#150
1935 lbs. FTW!
So are you saying price and hp are what keeps these little mighty mouses out of the superstock? Is the S engineering good enough to compete and win super stock if Honda gave it a hp boost to say 320hp. How bout the new 16b rotary comming out. Would it qualify for A-stock. I guess that one is a wait and see.
Either way the S2000 was kicking the crap out of B-stock so it moved up and how the RX-8 is king of B stock (which is where I'll be racing next season in a RX-8).