23109VC

No. this is not a kill post, or a "i smoked a 911".

it's more of a comparison test.. and YES it's totally apples to oranges I know. No one really cross shops an RX8 and a 911... BUT I got a chance to drive a friends 1999 911 this past weekend and it reminded me of the 8.

it's all sports car. like the 8.
it has two little jump seats in teh back - like the 8. (only the 8s are easier to get to and more comfy).
it sounds AWESOME.. like the 8. different sound, but each has a unique cool sounding exhaust/engin esound.

now power/weight of course teh 911 wins. and "curb appeal".. you can't really consider a mazda and a 911 in the same breath... but both are nice looking.

price wise - here's the big difference. a used 8..like an 04 or 05 can be had at or under 20k. this car will sellf or $35ish... he got it for closer to 30k b/c he's friends with the seller. i've seen 1999 911s like his for sale almost at 40k... depending on options/miles.

i wonder how badly a 1999 911 would roast an 8 on a track? handling wise, i think they would be really similar. but power wise the 911 will pull away.

i was expecting the 911 to be faster than it was.. it was quick... but 295hp with 3050 lbs isn't mega fast anymore. an EVO or STi would probably beat it and any ricer with a chip/exhaust on his EVO woudl toast this 911...so straight line speed it wasn't a monster..but it was clearly fast and had enough power to be fun. whereas the RX8 is quick and fun but really lacking the same power level.

i guess my point is... if you had 28-32k to spend on a car and you were consider a new or almost new/low mileage 8 vs a higher mileage NO WARRANTY 911.... what do you think is a better all around car daily driver?

as fun and cool as the 911 is... buying an older one, with no warranty, for a daily driver...to me is asking for a nightmare at the dealer... i can only imagine what repair bills on a 911 would be like.

second point - while it was fast/fun... i don't think the 911 would truly be more fun. more curb appeal for sure... but in terms of how much of a smile on my face would i have when i took a set of twisties... i think the 8 would be just as much fun.

donack456

I THINK RESPECT and performance the Porsche 911 all the way. But with a warranty and with the smoother suspension the RX-8 might/would be a better practical daily driver.

But theres no way an RX-8 with hardly no hertiage, can compare respect wise or curb appeal wise to a Carrera Porsche 911 espeically a Targa.

In the twistes it should be a totally different feeling the RX-8 being so balance and hardly ever swinging the rearend around and the Porsche a Sport car made to swing around corners and do it quickly!!!

Interesting Comparison closer then you'd think Nectorine and a Peach.

CarAndDriver

Cadillac Fleetwood

diem

Another completely useless post from you.

NoTears316

Are you seriously surprised that an 8-9 year old 911 wasn't faster? You do realize that there weren't many cars back then that were even close to 300 hp? I can think of the TA with about 305 bhp and the 3000GT VR4 with about 310 bhp... that's about it.

23109VC

that was kind of my point - 300 hp isn't all that impressive anymore...


mazdaspeed 3 and MS6 are pushing almost that much. EVo/STi have almost that much. heck a new Camry V6 is close to it. as is a TL-S.

it sure was beautiful though.

i guess my point - or an observation I made was that while you might expect that the 911 would just be so much better than an 8 - even if it was a 99 model...is that time/technology change quicky with cars.

the handling was pretty amazing on the 911, but it was also amazing on the 8. if the RX8 had about 50 more hp - it would be better than that 1999 911 - period.

next time you see an older 911 at a light next to you at a stop light - no need to envy. it isn't all *THAT* great.

now if it's a new 997 turbo...drool away...

eforer

Honestly, although I think the 911 is a great street car debatably the ultimate daily driver, the production cars excluding the gt3 aren't the best track cars for most people. The Cayman and Boxsters are actually much better balanced, albeit lacking in the yank department. I had a chance a few years ago to drive a 996 chassis 911 turbo at lime rock. It was great at 8/10ths, which was plenty fast, but it was scary and evil when getting close to the limit. Of course most people (including myself) can't and don't drive 10/10ths even on track days. That said, later when I got to drive it on the street it ranks among the best cars I've ever driven for that purpose.

As far as the GT3 goes, I have several aquaintances with GT3s and they say its kind of evil and scary, but stupid fast. A good friend of mine who is a spectacular professional driver said that with the stock tires the GT3 is pretty much god awful. I guess the OE tires are dreadful on the car. That said, once they get the right rubber, they really get good. Still, for a track car, I'd pick an exige or a noble (to date the best street car I've ever had the pleasure to drive).

On the other hand, the skip barber instructors I've chatted with recently about the RX8 absolutely love the car. They say its one of the easiest street cars to drive 10/10ths. Certainly not nearly as fast as the newer 911s in a straight line. I'm sure with a tremendously talented driver, the 911 would lap a road course, especially a big track faster. With an amature, they might find themselves more comfortable and ultimately faster in the rx8.

For a street car though, I'd take a 996/997 generation 911 hands down any day The turbo is probably the best production car you could drive most every day.

Ever Hernandez

Rx-8 best sport car all around, Used porsche....pure ego..

delhi

Used 911... u better have deep pockets for insurance and out of warranty work! 1999 911s are not the prettiest Carreras. Looks like a Boxster front-end. Hence they are 'cheaper'. The 993s are uber-expensive. They seem to not depreciate anymore and most of them sells for more than a 996.
I love the boxer 6 sound and full chat. Very nice. Alot of 911s where I am. It's more of a fashion statement than as a sports car. Most of them will never see evn 6/10 driving situations. Most parked at cafes or clubs.

23109VC

the 911 my buddy got has the Aero kit and cleared lenses...xenons...so it looks slick. no orange in the tails, sides, or headlamps...and th ebody kit gives it a much beefier/aggressive look. I agree the standard 996 is NOT a pretty car. the aero kit ones (or the turbo models) look slick.

i agree on th erepair bill stuff. I'd be scared to have a used 911 as i would expect repairs would be a nightmare.

a relatively new under warranty RX8 would be relatively reliaible and any major issue would be under warranty. not nearly as fast...but in the corners it would hang.

i want something with the practicality of the RX8, that handles just as well, but is a bit faster. what do i get??? i'd tend to think of a sports sedan - like a TL-S or IS350...but I doubt they would corner/handle like an 8.

on a track, or though a set of twisties, there is no way even a Tl type S with the more hp motor would compare with an 8....maybe on a track a car like that would make up in straights what it loses in the turns. but for sheer driving pleasure i dont think it woudl be nearly as much fun.

any of you care to suggest somethign that would be as fast/fun as that older 300 hp 911, or a Boxster S, but have the practicality of an RX8, and the handling/cornering of the 8?

first car that comes to mind is EVO...or STi...but i want something at least as classsy as an 8.... i don't want somethign that screams "rice" or "fast and furious".

Skiptomylue

350bhp...

CarAndDriver

Thanks for the compliment.

CarAndDriver

vs 924

Sunset ZR

umm no not the 924 but maybe the 944 non turbo is a good comparison with the 8.

BigRed

my dad has a 1995 red 911 cabrio that he still drives. his car is definately faster than the 8 anyways. it has much more torque. his is even an aircooled engine, the last of its kind from a 911. his is much faster. a 1999 911 would also smoke the 8 because think of it, my dads car is a convertible, it is aircooled, and it is a 1995. a 1999 wouldnt be faster?!?!?!?!?!

eforer

It may have more torque, but its hefty weight wise. See this link .

Also, the 911s are and were dry sump with a massive oil cooler and a huge oil capacity. The motor was effectively oil cooled. Its no miracle of engineering.

RX26b

Yeah, exactly. With sump capacity upwards of 12 or 13 quarts those cars could hardly be considered "air cooled". Had no idea those rattling-garbage-can-sounding engines were dry sump- freakin' learn something new everyday.

eforer

Its funny, looking at the performance of the 1995 911, the 8 would have been a missle by the standards of 12 years ago! I still have the motor trend of the best bang for buck cars which was from I think 1993 where the FD was named the top performance car for the money over the mustang lx v8 5 speed.

911SC

My 1980 911SC Targa cost me $13000 five years ago.
Insurance is $299/ year thru Hagerty. $15000 agreed replacement value. No deductable. Two free tows of up to 50miles per year.
It has cost me $1700 to replace the original clutch.
$200 to replace wires, plugs, dizzy and rotor.
One oil change per year at a cost of $25 per. DIY
Four new tires $550.
Other than that, dead reliable. I've put 30,000 miles on it.
Car and Driver did 0-60 in 6sec. flat. I would never attempt that. It's more of a 6.7 sec car.
If I sold it today I could get my $13000 back.
Your 3 year old RX8's will get you maybe $17000 back on a $27000 cost.
$10,000 pays for alot of repairs.
One more thing, some of us buy these cars because we enjoy them.

kartweb

I've had a few 911's over the years and they are, well, different. A very pleasing different. Except when your slowing through a turn like exiting a cloverleaf at high speed then finding it's a decreasing radius...I felt like Danny Sullivan once....

Not many piston motors compare to the simple yet elegant air cooled boxer. In the 80's more then a few were set up for SCCA GT2 - stock rods, crank, valves - and they would twist to 9500 RPM, a few times bouncing 10,000 and keep on going.

One of my favorites was a 1970 911 Targa powered by a 2.2 S with Kugelfisher mechanical injection. Cam sprockets had a verier hole/pin alignment to the cam allowing precisely matching cam timing - retarding the cam about 3° with an Ansa exhaust and tuning the fuel put about 190 HP to the wheels with a full tank curb weight of 2100 lbs.

The sound of a 911 at 6000-9000 RPM is sweet. At an idle it's like having a miniature sheet metal stamping factory just behind you.

The RX8 is refined in a way a rear engined car will never be. I compare the RX8 to a 928 and prefer the RX8.

Transam kid 01

iTrader: (1)

98+ with the LS1, non WS6, had 305 HP...not to the rear wheels, the WS6 had 325 HP not to the rear wheels, and the Fire Hawk is the one with 350 non rear wheel HP.

CarAndDriver

914

delhi

Until the 997 came out the Carrera's interior never really changed over the last few decades. Ergonomics is an alien term. :D I briefly flirted with a 1992 964. Love it. But top end rebuilt costs wayyyyyy too much. And it bloody fogs up each time I sneeze!
Great car them classic 911s. But I'd never dare to push it as much as I would with the 8.

eforer

The 993 generation and earlier cars are pretty scary with the trailing throttle oversteer. Its too bad that the 914 got such a bizzarely bad rep in its day. The 914/6 is now highly collectible and probaly the best porsche road car of the era. I really think porsche went in the right direction with the boxster and the cayman with making a proper mid-engined car. Lets face it, if they put some real motor in the cayman it would absolutely dominate the 911.

The 1980 sc is no doubt a better investment than the rx8, but I'm sure with time the rx8 will be come some what collectible. Any decent sports car is worth something after enough time passes. Hell, people vintage race crossle hot shots! (you get a gold star if you know what that is!) Datsun 240s are becoming collectible too. I'm sure with time we'll see 1st gen rx7s being worth something.

For you porsche guys in the new englad area, come to the mazda dyno day at ktr I'm trying to setup and you can see:

935
908-3 (bergspider)
some porsche cup cars
some gt3s
and scores of other cool non-porsche vehicles

Shameless plug complete!

saturn

Ugh.