Zathras

Hi everyone. Newbie here. I have been lurking a bit though.

Before you groan and say this has all been done to death please let me explain. I've been looking for a new car for a few weeks now. My initial thought was to get a 350Z manual. I test drove one and loved the torquey engine. No matter what gear you were in, when you hit the throttle, it scooted. Then I read all the trouble people were having with their tires feathering. I also wasn't thrilled with the interior. There is something about the car that just makes me feel Nissan is trying to get away with doing things as cheaply as they can.

I test drove a 2004 S2000 a couple of weeks ago. My impression? Nice car, needs a bigger motor. I was impressed with the interior and build quality.

Yesterday I drove a RX8. I didn't expect to like the RX8. I don't know rotaries and the power specs looked exactly like the S2000's. Boy, was I surprised The RX8 was FUN. I don't know how to describe it. I felt connected to the car, like I could will it to do things.

I'm wondering why the RX8 felt funner than the S2000. My guess is the RX8 has more usable torque and maybe horsepower at lower revs. Maybe the engine just revs faster. The S2000 just felt like there was nothing there until you got past 6000 rpms. The RX8 didn't feel anemic below 6000. If you started accelerating at say 3000 it didn't apologize, it just started revving linearly and effortlessly.

Please explain this to me. What I really want are comparable dyno charts of the RX8 vs the S2000 (in English measurement, not metric please). I want to quantify what my butt dyno is telling me. I've searched everywhere, but good comparable dyno charts are hard to find. They can be factory crankshaft charts or rear wheel charts.

Thanks!

Todd Green

well the s2000 should have felt like it had more torque... it does... the 8 comes alive at 6000 rpms... this discussion has been held many times but im not gonna bash you... i am glad that you realize the 8 is a fun car, hopefully you find what ur looking for

pret

glad to hear your opinion of the 8. now u experienced how we all feel. the numbers does not do the 8 justice. i took mine to the local car meet, and the little 'tuner' kids are like, 'what, it has 150 hp?" and i'm like and you have a hynduai tiberion, please go away!

it not all in the numbers. the numbers don't do it justice.

RodsterinFL

The FORCE works well in the RX8. Just wave your hand at the officer as you pass, "You will not stop me". Yes, you can will it to go fast. Just press down on the right foot

cueball

I don't think what you are feeling is a big difference in HP. It has more to do with the engines themselves. The Honda relies on it VTEC system (more aggressive cams at higher RPMs) for its power. That is why it is a dog below 6000 RPM. The rotary is much more linear.

I can't help you with dyno graphs, but in my opinion, there is no reason to see them if the RX8 feels faster. The cars would also have to tested on the same dyno at the same time to get a fair comparison.

Good luck getting them though.

Jeffjett

The nice thing about the 8 is the driver ergonomics. You just fit right in the 8, almost like it was custom made for you. The steering wheel feels good, and the shifter is exactly in the correct place. Kind of like you wear the 8. I have not driven the S2K but I have ridden in them. Great car, but they just seem cramped IMO. I also think the S is louder due to the ragtop. I like the four doors and four functional seats of the 8 as well.

The 8 is a really amazing car, of course I might be prejudiced.

HeelnToe

Heh, you're not alone. My friend (S2000 owner) and I recently swapped cars. This is what he had to say about the RX-8 (sound familiar?):

RodsterinFL

I drove an S2000 last summer right before buying the 8 and it was a tight car. I too felt cramped and the engine was not as free revving. It cut loose at higher RPM's though. It comes down to cramped convertible or RX8. I would say that performance-wise the two are very similar.

AQA101

The funny thing with the RX-8 is that power output grows absolutely proportional with revolutions. Combined with the 9000 rpm redline, this leads to the impression that power never stops growing. It's the exact opposite to a turbo diesel (and other torquey engines) where you ride on the torque at medium revolutions. If I'm driving fast, I try to keep the car between 7000 and 9000 revs. Combined with the jet engine sound it produces and the concentration needed to keep at high revs, the car feels incredible.

Some other cars are more powerful, but they simply don't feel so good at that point.

The strongest point of the 8 is its handling though. Whatever overtakes me on a straight road probably stays behind if it gets curvy.

Zathras

Thanks for the great replies everyone.

You've all hit on some good points. I've been watching some Top Gear videos too. The tall guy, I don't know his name, loved the RX8 and hated the 350Z. He described the RX8 as being like a punching bag, you can give it hell, he said, and it never fights back.

That was kind of how I felt about revving the RX8's engine. It wanted to be revved. The S2000 on the other hand did feel strained until I got past 7000 where it sounded glorious.

I'd like to test drive the S2000 again. Now I feel like I didn't give it a proper chance.

What I'm looking for the most in a new car is mid-range civility. I have a peaky four cylinder now ('92 Plymouth Laser AWD turbo) and I want something that I don't feel I have to flog all the time to have fun.

I found this dyno chart in the faq:

AQA101

Well, with the 8 you can cruise very civilized or race like hell if you want to. I drive it somewhat civilized everyday on my way to work (80 mph in sixth gear, 80 miles each day). I think it's correct to say that the 8 is the best "practical" usable sports car you can think of. On the other hand you can turn it into a beast by simply driving in lower gear. And the 8 (technically, psycology is a different matter of course) is a very save car if you drive it responsibly, the handling alone gives you a vast safety potential because this car really does what you want it to do and it reacts immediately and precise to every command.

Photic

My best friend had an S2K when they were fairly new.
He had a Viper but felt that it would get him in trouble, and 6 mpg was another downer. So he got a Convertible Silver Vette with red leather interior (it looked like something from Battle Star Galactica with 2 red tongues),
he didn't like how it handled and said it didn't have enough power with how heavy it was (coming from a viper I wouldn't doubt it)
So he picked up an S2K, he loved the handling of it, but it still wasn't still enough power, so he put on a Super Charger. 350hp on a small car was pretty nice, but small is the keyword, Personally I could hardly fit..
The bar from the ragtop would smack me in the head when we would hit a bump (when it wasn’t digging into it in the first place), and the rear window was plastic, if Toyota could put glass in an MR2 spyder, Honda surely should have put it in the S2K.
Anyway he owned it for about a year, he then traded it in for a Z06, he liked it quite a bit, and I think it was his personal favorite at the time.
Now he has an M3 and he seems pretty fond of it. So what’s the point of this post? I think my friend has more money than he knows what to do with and should write car reviews,
and while the S2K is a nice car, it has its quirks like anything else.

RX-Hachi

Motortrend also agrees, picking the RX-8 over the S2K and 350Z.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ee/index3.html

JimW

Zathras, That is the original factory spec dyno sheet. Unfortunately, Mazda detuned the car to a supposed 238 H.P. since then, so it could pass the 120,000 mile catalytic converter warranty required by the E.P.A. The S2K is a very nice car but quite different and seats 2, with a little more of a performance edge. I think you like a more compliant, smooth and quiet ride in which the RX8 offers. The 8 also has the ability to carry 4 with and easy entry/exit access, complimentary of it's rear doors, while still offering a fun to drive sport car feel along with superb handling. Like others have said, there's nothing else like it. Good luck.

Lawerence

Stock S2k (04) dyno:



Peak tq at 6K.
But the whole tq curve is pretty flat 125tq to 6K and about 140 from 6K up.

Xyntax

^ that's a nice steep change at 6000 rpm :D

Lawerence

and here is an rx8 dyno.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...o&pagenumber=3

its close to the top of the page.

There was a better one floating around here, but i cant find it

Runfox

Hey speaking of 120,000 miles there what do you all think the life of this rotary engine will be? In other words does anyone have any idas or info on how many miles it will be before one needs rebuilt or major work? What is Mazda maint schedule for the engine?I know I have talked to owners or RX7 rotaries and they said 100,000 miles was rebuild time. Thats a pretty short life and of course thats the old style engine with the turbos cooking the oil and all that mess.

I'm thinking with the new engine we should get more miles down the road before major work but I have no idea how far. Compared to a standard piston engine , which has many more moving parts, I would think the rotary should get more miles before work. But then the rotary engine has higher revs and develops more heat.But the basic engine design is so simple, a three pointed rotor with what three seals or contact points, a few other seals sprayed with oil? It looks like it should be able to run many miles, maybe 200,000 with out major problems?

RX-Hachi

That dyno result is quite old a pre-M flash. The M-flash is suppose to have fixed the power loss above 7K rpms, would be interesting to see if an M-flashed car's dyno results continue with a nice smooth upward curve.

Mazda has stated that the RX-8 can not be accurately dyno-ed due to its complex ecu and other various factors. Dyno results have been beaten to death on this forum.

Frankly, the only thing I care about is the JOY I get when I drive it. 0-60 times, 1/4 mi., dyno runs, mean nothing to me, but the actual feel of the car does. So if one has more fun in the RX-8 vs. the S2K, then that's all that matters for that person. Enjoy.

Lawerence

He knows how it feels.

He wanted dynos. And thats what I gave him OK?

And the car can be dynoed mazda is full of BS. Canzoomer knows it and others have followed the steps and had successfull dynoes.

(that has nothing to due to the fact the every dyno varies, thats just the way it is)

Finally i said it wasnt the best dyno. But you guys dont have many to work with and its the only non-canzoomer one i could quickly find.

Zathras

AQA101 - by civilized at lower rpms I meant having some usable power. If I'm cruising along at 35mph at say 3000 rpm's in my Laser in third gear and mash the accelerator all I hear is a whooshing sound as the car slowly accelerates. I don't want to have to downshift a gear or two to accelerate spiritedly. The S2000 felt like a car you had to downshift all the time. The 350Z felt like a muscle car that would accelerate in any gear. The RX8 had a magical quality, it would accelerate, not quite as quickly as the Z, but it didn't feel bogged down like my Laser or the S2000. I felt myself wanting to downshift though since the car shifted so easily, I just didn't HAVE to.

While on the highway I felt something else weird in the RX8. I could be cruising at 70mph and the car didn't seem to care whether it was in 4th or 6th gear. As a matter of fact, no matter what speed I was going there seemed to be a lot of leeway as to what gear I could be in. This kind of goes along with the punching bag analogy. If I may try an analogy of my own, the car reminds me of a loyal Golden Retriever always willing to please and forgive its owner.

RX-Hachi - you beat me with the Motor Trend link:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ee/index3.html

I've also attached the horsepower chart from that article.

Zathras

Here is a torque chart from the Motor Trend article too. As can be clearly seen from the charts the RX8 is down on horsepower and torque through most of the rev range. You could never tell by driving it

cueball

The 3rd generation RX7 (FD), had a twin turbo 13b-rew engine that would last in some cases to only 100,000 miles or less. Previous generation naturally aspirated rotaries can easily last to over 200,000 miles when maintained. I am completely confident that the RX8 will have no problem running to 200,000 miles.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

but then the big question is, out of all the new RX-8 owners here, who would actually still own the car when the big 100k (or even 200k) mile rolls around?

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

btw since you've already driven all 3, and it SEEMS like you prefer the way the RX-8 drives over the other 2, what is the point of finding a dyno sheet besides bragging rights (which the RX-8 doesn't really have much to brag about on paper...)