rx8 vs 3rd gen RX-7 handling...
#76
Registered
iTrader: (2)
What about using a more realistic example of another car of similar displacement, size and weight that has more torque than the rX-8?
Perhaps you could beat the lap of your RX-8 ridding on a space shuttle instead![Rollinglaugh](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/rollinglaugh.gif)
Again, could we use examples that are similar?
But I see what you mean, and I stand corrected. I didn't mean to imply hp is not important or that torque alone is all there is. HP and torque obviously go together.
All I meant to say is that if you put two "similar" engines together side by side, the engine producing more torque will likely accelerate faster - or reach its top power/speed - than the other.
Perhaps I didn't articulate what I meant to say correctly. I edited my earlier post to clarify.
![Pat](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/pat.gif)
Perhaps you could beat the lap of your RX-8 ridding on a space shuttle instead
![Rollinglaugh](https://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/rollinglaugh.gif)
Again, could we use examples that are similar?
But I see what you mean, and I stand corrected. I didn't mean to imply hp is not important or that torque alone is all there is. HP and torque obviously go together.
All I meant to say is that if you put two "similar" engines together side by side, the engine producing more torque will likely accelerate faster - or reach its top power/speed - than the other.
Perhaps I didn't articulate what I meant to say correctly. I edited my earlier post to clarify.
No, even with similar engines, the one with the higher torque peak will not necessarily be the one that will accelerate faster. If you look at the VW lineup of gas and turbo-diesel engines, in almost every case the diesel produces more torque and less hp than the gas engine in the same car, and in every such case, the higher hp, lower torque gas engine wins the 0-60 times and by even larger margins, in the 1/4 mile.
#77
Registered
You brought in physics; physics looks at limiting cases as a way to clarify logic. Torque does *not* accelerate vehicles, nor is it at all necessary to accelerate vehicles. Power accelerates, period. Torque is a result of the method chosen in ICE cars to do it, and is connected to hp by the formula I gave.
No, even with similar engines, the one with the higher torque peak will not necessarily be the one that will accelerate faster. If you look at the VW lineup of gas and turbo-diesel engines, in almost every case the diesel produces more torque and less hp than the gas engine in the same car, and in every such case, the higher hp, lower torque gas engine wins the 0-60 times and by even larger margins, in the 1/4 mile.
No, even with similar engines, the one with the higher torque peak will not necessarily be the one that will accelerate faster. If you look at the VW lineup of gas and turbo-diesel engines, in almost every case the diesel produces more torque and less hp than the gas engine in the same car, and in every such case, the higher hp, lower torque gas engine wins the 0-60 times and by even larger margins, in the 1/4 mile.
-Mark Warner, "Street Rotary", p26-27. (the guy is a mechanical engineer, you're probably familiar with the book)
Notice the key words underlined above are "rate" and "torque." Also, the first variable he quotes as important to increase power is to increase torque - which is the opposite of what you said above.
Perhaps I am not understanding you after all, but what this guy says in the book makes more sense to me.
Anyway, thanks for your response. I always try to learn from various opinions and perspectives.
Last edited by pistonhater; 01-15-2013 at 10:36 PM.
#78
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
That book is fun to read and has a lot of good info but let's not act like that book is the end all book on anything rotary. I mean he quotes BDC for gods sake, and he is an absolute joke as a builder. Not to mention a couple of other people I don't consider experts on rotary's.
#79
Registered
That book is fun to read and has a lot of good info but let's not act like that book is the end all book on anything rotary. I mean he quotes BDC for gods sake, and he is an absolute joke as a builder. Not to mention a couple of other people I don't consider experts on rotary's.
#80
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iTrader: (2)
The first part is a confusion brought about by the messy SAE/English system of measurement, where the "fundamental units" are Force, Distance, and Time. Instead of Mass, Distance, and Time (used by science and everyone else in the world outside of the USA). There is no mass unit defined in SAE, though "slugs" is often used as a kludge. I'd prefer not to get into that, though!
What he does get right, and what I'm trying to convey, is it's all about POWER.
#81
To keep from ever dealing with this dilemma, I sold my dd FC, bought an evox for my new DD and put bnr stage 3s into my FD. The evo is incredible, but it is so different from the FD that I am just happy with both for being the pinnacle of their respective development.
#83
Thanks. I recently flogged a friends rx-8 and it reminded me more of a modern FC. Around the same acceleration as my FC but with better brakes. My FC GXL had bracing, konis, pillow ***** and manual steering among power mods. mazda has never made a dull 7 or 8. Evos are king for half the year here in mn. Its faster on my neighborhood Round about than my RX in any weather, but I don't feel as lively going fast in the evo.
I have totalled 5 posts in 11 years. Happily I remember my password here.
I have totalled 5 posts in 11 years. Happily I remember my password here.
Last edited by Enthu; 11-20-2013 at 12:01 AM.
#84
That book is fun to read and has a lot of good info but let's not act like that book is the end all book on anything rotary. I mean he quotes BDC for gods sake, and he is an absolute joke as a builder. Not to mention a couple of other people I don't consider experts on rotary's.
I purchased forum owners "87GTR" which was our buddies creation and a complete abortion.
It was so bad I sold it a month later for a loss because I was positive it would not run very long and I made sure the buyer was aware of that. I took a big financial hit but felt it was better then the one coming when the car crapped the bed.
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