Semi-automatic
10-24-2002, 12:10 AM
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Semi-automatic
I want the option of a semi-automatic gearbox - paddle-shift off the steering wheel.
I thought I saw mention of this in the early pictures/briefs (where gearstick should be was just three buttons in a triangle, one marked "A") but it doesn't appear to be current anymore. I don't want buttons on the steering wheel changing an auto-transmission - this is just cheating: moving an auto-gearshift lever to the steering wheel. I want the computer controlled clutch so you can slip it in auto in town but enjoy manual shifting on the open road.
Obviously the system sounds expensive as it's on Ferrari's, but also small Alfa Romeos (and I think Peugeot?) have it also. So Mazda should be able to get this too. If it's an option then price needn't be too much of an issue as customers can choose if they think it's worth it.
Here's hoping Mazda read this! :D
On a related note - why does the full-auto power output have to drop to 190bhp? There are plenty of cars out there with auto-boxes handling 250bhp, like BMW,Porsche etc.
I thought I saw mention of this in the early pictures/briefs (where gearstick should be was just three buttons in a triangle, one marked "A") but it doesn't appear to be current anymore. I don't want buttons on the steering wheel changing an auto-transmission - this is just cheating: moving an auto-gearshift lever to the steering wheel. I want the computer controlled clutch so you can slip it in auto in town but enjoy manual shifting on the open road.
Obviously the system sounds expensive as it's on Ferrari's, but also small Alfa Romeos (and I think Peugeot?) have it also. So Mazda should be able to get this too. If it's an option then price needn't be too much of an issue as customers can choose if they think it's worth it.
Here's hoping Mazda read this! :D
On a related note - why does the full-auto power output have to drop to 190bhp? There are plenty of cars out there with auto-boxes handling 250bhp, like BMW,Porsche etc.
10-24-2002, 12:59 AM
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Re: Semi-automatic
Originally posted by JSG
On a related note - why does the full-auto power output have to drop to 190bhp? There are plenty of cars out there with auto-boxes handling 250bhp, like BMW,Porsche etc.
On a related note - why does the full-auto power output have to drop to 190bhp? There are plenty of cars out there with auto-boxes handling 250bhp, like BMW,Porsche etc.
10-24-2002, 08:07 AM
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Paddle shifters located behind the steering wheel have been dropped. I only saw one pic of them on an early prototype.
There are aftermarket conversions available, mostly for rally car privateers, but run about $10K USD. If you're serious about it, it can be done.
There are aftermarket conversions available, mostly for rally car privateers, but run about $10K USD. If you're serious about it, it can be done.
10-24-2002, 06:32 PM
#5
Originally posted by tribal azn
just a little fyi: the smg2 on the bmw m3 actually gets faster times then the full manual
just a little fyi: the smg2 on the bmw m3 actually gets faster times then the full manual
10-24-2002, 08:45 PM
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Automatic Transmissions
The first rx-8 auto is a Sportmatic type transmission which is why the revs are lower and consequently, the horsepower is lower. I don't know when but this will be replaced by a sequential shifter which is kind of like an standard with a clutch that is electronically controled. You see this in a few high-end cars and the technology found its roots in Formula 1.
When that is available, I think one can safelty say that it will be at least as fast as a stick shift, if not faster. If it were available today, I would buy it over a manual in a heartbeat.
When that is available, I think one can safelty say that it will be at least as fast as a stick shift, if not faster. If it were available today, I would buy it over a manual in a heartbeat.
10-24-2002, 09:32 PM
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Reasonably priced production sequential-shifts
I can understand development time/resources for Mazda might be an issue but it doesn't have to be exclusive to high-end cars. Check this mid-range Alfa:
http://www.selespeed.info/en/selespeede.htm
Let's hope there is something in the pipleline...
http://www.selespeed.info/en/selespeede.htm
Let's hope there is something in the pipleline...
10-24-2002, 10:58 PM
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It's a matter of personal taste, however, anyone who can competantly drive a manual tranny would likely prefer the joys (I'm not kidding) of such driving. Semi autos just dont deliver the same pleasure.
Try it for yourself.
Try it for yourself.
10-24-2002, 11:04 PM
#10
Originally posted by Donny Boy
It's a matter of personal taste, however, anyone who can competantly drive a manual tranny would likely prefer the joys (I'm not kidding) of such driving. Semi autos just dont deliver the same pleasure.
Try it for yourself.
It's a matter of personal taste, however, anyone who can competantly drive a manual tranny would likely prefer the joys (I'm not kidding) of such driving. Semi autos just dont deliver the same pleasure.
Try it for yourself.
10-24-2002, 11:15 PM
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I own an S2000 so am a manual-shifter but have driven a Ferrari F355F1 on a track with a semi-auto paddle shift and I promise you it was a lot of fun!
10-25-2002, 12:17 AM
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I own an S2000 so am a manual-shifter but have driven a Ferrari F355F1 on a track with a semi-auto paddle shift and I promise you it was a lot of fun!
10-25-2002, 12:26 AM
#13
Originally posted by JSG
I own an S2000 so am a manual-shifter but have driven a Ferrari F355F1 on a track with a semi-auto paddle shift and I promise you it was a lot of fun!
I own an S2000 so am a manual-shifter but have driven a Ferrari F355F1 on a track with a semi-auto paddle shift and I promise you it was a lot of fun!
The thing here is though, that a sequential gearshift first lets manufacturers give you headaches about warranty (because they tell what you do with the shifting), it's not as interactive with the car, and dammit I think shifting is just more fun.
I am not taking my car to the track, I like to row through the gears and play
Reverse 180s are near impossible in a SMG type car... i heard people actually stalled the car out tryin to do it right :P
10-25-2002, 01:30 AM
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I love playing the gears too but there's a time and a place. Sitting for 4 hours in a 36km jam trying to get back into Tokyo on Sunday night moving 1m forward every 20 seconds you soon get bored of the gears! :o It takes the shine off a good weekend of throwing the car around in the mountains. 
So for me the SMT would be a good compromise of having the gears when I want to drive the car properly but having an auto-mode for jams and around town. Otherwise you end up with a leg imbalance with your left calf like Arnold Schwarzeneger's! :D
In a way it's like the heated seats arguments: what you need depends on the environment you're using the car in. Variety is the spice of life and all that...
So for me the SMT would be a good compromise of having the gears when I want to drive the car properly but having an auto-mode for jams and around town. Otherwise you end up with a leg imbalance with your left calf like Arnold Schwarzeneger's! :DIn a way it's like the heated seats arguments: what you need depends on the environment you're using the car in. Variety is the spice of life and all that...
10-25-2002, 02:17 AM
#15
Originally posted by JSG
I love playing the gears too but there's a time and a place. Sitting for 4 hours in a 36km jam trying to get back into Tokyo on Sunday night moving 1m forward every 20 seconds you soon get bored of the gears! :o It takes the shine off a good weekend of throwing the car around in the mountains. So for me the SMT would be a good compromise of having the gears when I want to drive the car properly but having an auto-mode for jams and around town. Otherwise you end up with a leg imbalance with your left calf like Arnold Schwarzeneger's! :D
In a way it's like the heated seats arguments: what you need depends on the environment you're using the car in. Variety is the spice of life and all that...
I love playing the gears too but there's a time and a place. Sitting for 4 hours in a 36km jam trying to get back into Tokyo on Sunday night moving 1m forward every 20 seconds you soon get bored of the gears! :o It takes the shine off a good weekend of throwing the car around in the mountains.
So for me the SMT would be a good compromise of having the gears when I want to drive the car properly but having an auto-mode for jams and around town. Otherwise you end up with a leg imbalance with your left calf like Arnold Schwarzeneger's! :DIn a way it's like the heated seats arguments: what you need depends on the environment you're using the car in. Variety is the spice of life and all that...
Manual is total interaction with the car, and it's fun!
10-25-2002, 02:38 AM
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Oh yeah - you can't replace a manual. I think for a true sports car you need two transmission options:
1) 6 speed manual
2) Semi-auto
There should be no fluid clutch torque-converter based auto option (as the option poll almost bears out) as there is no point destroying a sports car with one of those...buy a Lexus instead.
1) 6 speed manual
2) Semi-auto
There should be no fluid clutch torque-converter based auto option (as the option poll almost bears out) as there is no point destroying a sports car with one of those...buy a Lexus instead.
10-25-2002, 02:43 AM
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Re: Automatic Transmissions
Originally posted by boowana
...replaced by a sequential shifter which is kind of like an standard with a clutch that is electronically controled. You see this in a few high-end cars and the technology found its roots in Formula 1.
When that is available, I think one can safelty say that it will be at least as fast as a stick shift, if not faster. If it were available today, I would buy it over a manual in a heartbeat.
...replaced by a sequential shifter which is kind of like an standard with a clutch that is electronically controled. You see this in a few high-end cars and the technology found its roots in Formula 1.
When that is available, I think one can safelty say that it will be at least as fast as a stick shift, if not faster. If it were available today, I would buy it over a manual in a heartbeat.
Like the SMT on the Toyota Spyder? Electronically controlled clutch shifting. Very nice in many ways. Sucks for racing. Slower.
Test 1. Try revving the car to 5000-6000rpms and launching with a sequential shifter. Not good in the Toyota. Not sure how good it can be in any lower priced car.
10-25-2002, 03:25 AM
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Supposing they can take something like Audi's excellent multitronic chain link CVT and increase the reaction time further, and the power rating; I think it might be the only thing that could compete. It's not the old torque driven mechanics, but electronic at heart, and very efficient.
No shifting, smooth infinite gear ratios between the min and max, always in the optimal power range. For those who want easy shifting, one gear would be the ultimate. :D
(barring the fun) It has the potential to equal, if not beat manual and SMG if developed enough. However I don't think that time will come soon enough for the CVT to become the new standard. SMG just seems much simpler to achieve with today's tech, even if it requires that much more fine-tuning in the adaptive computer algorithms and for its static gear ratios to work as a smooth automatic.
But just fantasizing, supposing a CVT could equal a manual for power output, the ability to not have to prepare and wait for a shift, nor careful management of engine RPMs to stay in a narrow powerband, would give a considerable edge in high speed racing.
But still, there is just something about using a clutch pedal--maybe it’s the interaction of both sides of the body and brain that make it feel so satisfying. I suppose like coke cola, there is nothing that can replace the original.
No shifting, smooth infinite gear ratios between the min and max, always in the optimal power range. For those who want easy shifting, one gear would be the ultimate. :D
(barring the fun) It has the potential to equal, if not beat manual and SMG if developed enough. However I don't think that time will come soon enough for the CVT to become the new standard. SMG just seems much simpler to achieve with today's tech, even if it requires that much more fine-tuning in the adaptive computer algorithms and for its static gear ratios to work as a smooth automatic.
But just fantasizing, supposing a CVT could equal a manual for power output, the ability to not have to prepare and wait for a shift, nor careful management of engine RPMs to stay in a narrow powerband, would give a considerable edge in high speed racing.
But still, there is just something about using a clutch pedal--maybe it’s the interaction of both sides of the body and brain that make it feel so satisfying. I suppose like coke cola, there is nothing that can replace the original.
10-25-2002, 06:42 AM
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CVT
I hope (& don't think) CVT will ever become standard. We all love to rev a car - we don't want to hear a consistent drone at peak torque or power even if it means we'll get the fastest getaway. The joy is in the variation of the sound. Get in a Honda and listen to VTEC or the wail of an RX7 - it's a beautiful sound that shouldn't be taken away by the transmission. I mean think about it - no more red-lining!
10-25-2002, 01:29 PM
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A message for JSG
JSG: I see you are currently in Tokyo. Have you seen anything on the market such as models of the RX-8 or any other such things?
If you have, maybe you can provide us with information on how to acquire some of these goodies like, company name, ordering info, costs, etc.
thanks very much.:p
If you have, maybe you can provide us with information on how to acquire some of these goodies like, company name, ordering info, costs, etc.
thanks very much.:p
10-25-2002, 09:37 PM
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Japanese goodies
If I find any I'll be sure to post but to be honest you guys have more information than we do! Frustrating given I sit considerably closer to the factory! I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow and see if there is any more news - the latest we got is it'll be at the LA show which isn't a lot of good when you're in Japan! 
Maybe some of you US guys can get down there? Of course it doesn't help that I can't read or speak Japanese very well 
but some things you just have to live with!
I'm going to go to the dealer tomorrow and see if there is any more news - the latest we got is it'll be at the LA show which isn't a lot of good when you're in Japan! Maybe some of you US guys can get down there? Of course it doesn't help that I can't read or speak Japanese very well but some things you just have to live with!
