r0tor, i dont loose my mind over the SC vs TC argument. this stuff is super silly. but for me it is playtime when people make claims/opinion/statements of personal preference, that they cannot even defend accurately.(which i am also guilty of) Ignorance doesnt bother me, it just means you havent learned whatever the subject is. but when you have a working knowledge of something and still argue against what you know out of plain stubborness... that kind of person is a waste of space

and specificically i responded to you that way at you because you obviously did not read what i wrote. I obviously dont know everything(or even much lol) but for anyone to have any kind of intellegent debate over a subject one has to be able to fully comprehend the other parties communication, which means you have to read what they wrote, not what you think they wrote

 

^ too bad they don't teach that in school let alone college Paul.

 

I do not comprehend other parties communication because things like

is utter speculative bullshit that is not backed up by a shred of evidence and therefore does not even deserve an attempt at comprehending. In order to particiipate in an "intelligent debate" it requires parties to use their intelligence and bring facts to the table and not speculative bullshit like the above quote.

You have ASSUMED the overheated ports is ONLY applicable to overboosted turbos. You have ASSUMED that the overboosted tubros in question were Greddy units on RX-8's and not the Diasio cars. You also ASSUMED its all marketing bullshit to sell a supercharger. You have nothing more then a bunch of assumptions with nothing to back them up.

 

are ewe really back to that again? paul must have just mis spoke ( i er... typed )

 

for rOtor ................... who has something to gain ?

 

Oh, I know it. Definitely.

However, it is easier to just post the correction then it is to PM him, have a protracted conversation about beer, girls and cigars, forget what we were talking about in the first place, remember, suggest that he correct the first post and then start chasing down all of the quotes of the original bad information parroted by the newbs.

 

haha, now if said conversation included sharing unedited avatar pics, well then lets do it!

in all honesty, over the last few months i feel like i have begun to understand all of this stuff. i suppose(and feel) i just dont have my head wrapped around it well enough to really get into discussions about and explaining it to others.

 

/\ once you have done it and blown a motor you will be a lot wiser

 

just avoid the evil coils and you will have no problem.

 

shut up about those bloody coils already :LOL:

 

eeeeeevil

 

Okay, so i pretty much have 2 options, 1 bite the bullet and go turbo and take all precautions available and hope everything works out well, or 2 keep it NA in which case id like be getting a racing beat header, a mid pipe " not sure which one", exhaust "again not sure", pulley's perhaps sr, hks ground wiring, new spark plugs but dont know which are best, and iv already got the aem cai, and im not sure if i would go with ecu reflash from racingbeat or jus get the cobb accessport. The biggest factor right now is cost a turbo would put me back atleast 5 or 6 g's where as im looking at less than half that in keeping NA, so if i see a cheap used turbo on here that may be the deciding factor. Oh and how whp do u think with all those mods i mentioned i could attain? 215 whp maybe?

 

NA is easy. AP and catless midpipe. The rest is trash.

Your car will be close to what it is now, so don't expect magic.

FI is a whole different ballgame.

 

not true.

N/A sees gains from a full 3" exhaust. not just catless midpipe, headers and catback too. aem/ms and racing beat intakes give improved hp as well.

next thing i might try is throttle body polish. supposedly they have a noticeable effect on the renny. they did on the previous 13b.

we all know the AP works like you said.

but to say everything else is trash is just flat out not true.

there have been several - street legal - rx8s pushing 220whp and up. how are those no gains?

by the time im done modding my car, i know i'll be at least at 220whp n/a.

 

^ I guess if you're lucky. I have just about every NA mod that could impact HP and it has been tuned in person by MM and I got to 204rwhp on a dynojet. 220 is REALLY optimistic from what I have seen...

 

the ms exhaust is 2.5" if im not mistaken.

i personally believe the mazsport coils are hp REDUCING n/a. my ETs went down 2mph after i installed it. so figure that out. nothing changed, weather was REMARKABLY similar to my previous drag day. same temps, same air density, same humidity. it was consistent over 3 passes. it was also consistent over the next 2 times i went drag racing. another 6-8 passes. i removed it, my ETs went up 2mph. this isnt rocket science. needless to say i sold it.

you dont have a header. get one. eric meyer motorsports (koni challenge rx8s) use this guy. eric meyer owns a lot of the design of this header. it may be pricey, but hey.. if eric meyer uses it. i'd use it. http://www.petesspeedandfab.com/Home.html i'd wait and see about fluid motorsports one. but i have a good feeling about it. mazsport scarred me, now i wait 6 months for the personal reviews to come out. instead of pre-ordering like i did with my coils.

so no, i dont really think you're at your limit.

 

Big exhaust (3"), smooth intake and no CAT are what it takes (with tuning) to get the 220 range on a strong motor (full compression, good coils/plugs, proper oil metering). Just taking the muffler OFF of an RX-8 can make almost 10 HP on the dyno.
Jury is still out on the header - other Koni cars have seen similar power to EMM with the stock manifold.

 

agreed. but its just another option, thunder said he has just about everything. i was just pointing out more options.

i currently have mark's (teamrx8) header. i will be putting it in sometime when the weather gets better (spring, unless someone has a garage and wants to help me) because it will require some modding of the midpipe. i will have more to report on headers at that point. at the very least this header (and the fluid motorsports one) are a good deal lighter than stock.

edit: also, just to be the devils advocate. mark did do 224whp with a cat. it was a german DTM cat. he also paid $1000 for it.

 

Some of the high-flow CATs are almost as good as no CAT at all, until they melt.

 

he never had a problem with it. it was rated to 2000 degrees F.

its definitely the route i would go, if my car was already turbocharged/kitted/rims/etc and i had $1000 i didnt know what to do with.

 

Interesting feedback on the coils. When MM ran my car on the dyno, he didn't indicate that they were restricting the car in any way -- maybe it's hard to tell.

I will check out the header but I'm skeptical about what a header will add in HP and what it will potentially take away on low end torque. Anxious to see some dynos.

I will likely go FI at some point. If not, I will likely add 4.77 diff to the mod list

 

First, we never got your car up to 100% on the dyno.
Second, you would need a before and after comparison to see a uniform loss of power.
You didn't have any significant break-up on the dyno, but it wouldn't have become apparent until we really had the car dialed in 100% for fuel and MAF calibration.

 

^
Jeff, what is your take on whole coils thing? Do you believe there is an issue with Mazsport's coils or is the evidence to-date inconclusive?

 

I think the evidence speaks for itself.

That said, I was always uncomfortable with a "plug-n-play" solution that did not share the OE coils electrical characteristics.

 

mazsport coils are caca.

end of story