BlueEyes

They're definitely not neccesities for everyone. Maybe for you.

StealthFox

yeah but the base is basically a POS econobox, hell you can get auto 04 bases for dirt cheap now, like 18k. i wish mazda made the car a little more high end like the 350z

REMillers

High end how? Power, sure we all want that.

But interior wise it matchs the 350, comfort is always dependant on the person. But high end? You mean make it more expensive.

Nope more expensive and people won't buy this car, the fact it is a good bargin is a saleing point.

BlueEyes

this is pretty dumb.

StealthFox

high end as a 33k car instead of a 26k car. i was comparing it high end as to the 350z if you re read my post more carefully...what were you thinking? like boxster type of high end???

REMillers

In response I ask what you meant by high end in comparison to the 350. That’s exactly what I asked, no confusion as to a boxter....

Do you want the 8 to have more power? Better interior? High price tag? You are very vague on the "wish it was a little more high end like the 350z" portion.

Overall what Mazda offers the Rx8 for is a good range, with good options; good performance for what Mazda is normally known for-Driver comfort, confidence and track ability.

StealthFox

you miss thier main point that they carry thoughout their entire sportscar line from the start. balance. its the one thing not a whole lot of cars other than british roadsters and proper german sportscars such as porsche and some of the italian exotics have, its the key to the cars handling so damn good, which is why typically this car can handle a corner 2-3 times the speed limit comfortably stock. and i mean high end as in the starting price, so people always look at the starting price and classify it as a lower car, for example the evo is considered a low mid 30s car, the rx8 is considered a high 20s car. this probably doesn't bug you, but i dont give a **** anyway. basically the car has a spread from 18k used to 33k new which is a small thing that bothers me a small bit, and probably bothers only a small amount of people.

FoxTypeR

Clearly paying more for my car each month would make me enjoy it more. Consider the price you pay at the pump and the car wash the difference between the RX-8 and a 350z, which I think looks better abandoned on the side of the road with mud all over it than driving around on the streets, but hey, that's just me. I don't really understand why anyone would complain about their car costing 7,000 less than the competition, though I would draw more similarities to the G35.

You also have to consider that you're comparing the two broadest ends of the spectrum here in terms of price difference between the two transmissions (and therefore engines) and interior equipment. Did you ever see the price difference between a 5-speed V6 Firebird and a 6-speed V8 Trans-Am WS-6? Or a 5-speed stripped V6 Mustang and a V8 Cobra? Or perhaps an I4 and V6 Accord? There's a LOT of cars with a 15k difference in price. And as far as depreciation goes... Go look up the blue book value on a 2004 V6 Pontiac Grand Am SE with 20,000 miles. I have a co-worker that paid 23k new, still owes 18k and the car is now worth less than 9k. Why don't you go complain about that? He owes over twice what the car is worth.

Sigma

The "starting price" of the 350Z is lower than the RX-8.

Comparably equipped, no matter where the trim level is, the two are virtually dead-even in price until you get up to the 35th Anniversary edition.

For one, you can't compare Used prices. I could look at Mustangs and say that the car ranges from $2000 Used to $40,000 New (or whatever a Roush or Steeda goes for thesedays).

New, the RX-8 ranges from $27k to $34k. In car terms that's not that much. The Mazda3 has a spread of $10K new. The Mazda6 has a spread of $13K new.

The 350Z ranges from $27k to $40k.

And even if you did want to compare Used the 350Z ranges from $18K used to $40K new -- that's an even bigger range.

dwynne

Unless you are a well trained track driver most folks can't perform as well as the DSC system can. We for sure can't actuate individual brakes as needed to correct the path of the car. Most of us will get into a spin situation very few times in our lives (unless you are a really insane street driver) so we don't have a lot of practice catching a spin. When I used to autox all the time I was better at than I am now, but I could still mess up WHEN AT THE TRACK and paying full attention. When cruising on the streets it is too easy to forget the lessons of the track.

ABS is another must have. We can practice threshold braking all we want, but when the truck pulls right out in front of us when are going hard onto the brakes and most folks will keep it there. With ABS we don't have to think, just react. The problem with ABS is folks don't realize they can still steer the car if they need to. So in addtion to keeping the tires from flat spotting in four long black marks, it lets you keep control of the car.

Same with DSC. It has a switch so you can turn it off for a track event but then leave it on for cruising around town. "You never know" when it might save your behind. In the case of the person who started this thread - might have saved them from ever going around at all.

Most everyone these days grows up driving FWD cars. With FWD no matter what goes wrong you just lift and it will usually get better. Then someone moves up to RWD cars with no DSC (base 8, S2000, etc) and they take a turn too fast amd the back end gets loose and the driver goes "oops, I need to lift - I am going too fast". This induces trailing throttle oversteer and the car rotates MORE - then they normally panic and lift all the way which can end up in snap oversteer and around you go. You can be countersteering the whole time and still go around if you lift hard enough and transition the weight off the back tires. Spins may be the #1 single car wreck cause in a car like the S2000 (the newer models are less prone to coming around due to changes Honda made). Heck, even a Miata is pretty easy to rotate if you lift enough - and on hot race tires (ask me how I know ). It is pretty wild at a track even to see experienced drivers start to lose it in a corner and GET ON THE GAS MORE along with counter-steering to save the car.

DSC is an electronic safety net that is really needed in a RWD car for just about everyone.

The sports pack on a 6mt adds just $1,118 to the dealer cost and includes the HID headlights, fog lights (really useful if you do the fog light mod listed here), and the DSC w/traction control. That to me is a super bargain. For a auto 8 it is even more of a must have, since you get the LSD, larger brakes, and better suspension and all the other stuff. It does add $1,721 to the dealer cost, but again well worth it.

I think if you try to sell a base "stripper" car you would have a lot harder time and would end up having to discount it to move it out. I would not buy it no matter how much you discounted it, but that is just me :D

Dennis

rx8wannahave

I"m glad you didn't hurt anyone, didn't get hurt, didn't mess up your 8, and I hope you really did learn a lesson. We all can be dumb at times so I'm not going to ask for blood but they are right...you really need to think of someone other than yourself when your playing with your car.

Keep it on a track when you want to really push the 8.

Glyphon

DSC does not do what you think it does. it compares the direction the wheels are facing with the direction that the car is actually moving, and if it detects a slide/spin, it will apply the brakes independantly at each wheel as needed to cease the loss of control condition, and reduce the throttle if needed.

now, that said, DSC is absolutely worthless if the tires don't have traction. and considering that you were driving highway speeds in the rain on tires with little tread depth, the car detected the spin and tried to control it, but since you were most likely hydroplaning, the tires had greatly reduction traction and the DSC couldn't control the spin. and as for the over correcting, that was most likely you overcorrecting.

um...no its not. a stripped auto 8 new is $25,935. a stripped 350z is $26,800. that's $865 more than the 8.

DARKMAZ8

buddy, I was going too fast and DSC would not help in my situation, trust me. I'm not sure how else to explain it better but the car wanted to spin to the right(which would of caused serious damage) and I managed to get it to spin left. I'm not a street racer but I do like pushin the 8 in the corners. Any real driver would never want dsc or tcs. I'm still very happy with the base and in the long run, most ppl will want to buy the base if modding the car was a factor.

Sigma

I was obviously comparing Manual to Manual -- the only real means to compare the two. Not only is the ATX RX-8 not even in the same league as the 350Z, but thanks to equipment configurations the lowest priced ATX-equipped 350Z is a $30,300 model. Since there is no stripped-model ATX 350Z you can't compare it to a stripped-model ATX RX-8.

DARKMAZ8

An automatic 8 will always be worth less in the used car market.

StealthFox

hmm, i wanted the DSC in the 8...that must mean im a "fake" driver. i suppose my logic of having fun on the road with a little safety and being able to open it up completely and turn it off for autox/track use makes no sense to a "real" driver

StealthFox

thank you captain obvious.

dwynne

Me too, I must be a fake 8 driver as well. Heck I even wish I had it on the S - for sure that time I did a "90" before I caught it - good thing no one was coming in the other lane

DSC has come in handy in both the BMWs I owned and in the C5 'vette I had. I expect at some point it will come in handy on the 8 as well.

We don't know if it would have saved the original poster from going around or not, but we know he does not have access to each brake individually nor reflexes as fast as the DSC computer - so it might have. You are correct in if there is no available traction you are hosed no matter if you have it or not. For sure I want the safety net as I drive around just in case. Anyone who says they don't need or want it is probaly just going to raise the insurance rates for the rest of us - eventually

Dennis

StealthFox

you have a good taste in cars dennis

Sigma

A "real driver" would never mess up enough to have DCS engage on the street in the first place.

By the time DCS engages you've already screwed up. It's there to keep you from killing yourself and others. Yeah it sucks on the track if you want to really get the tail-wagging, but that's why there is an Off button. There's no reason at all a 'real driver' wouldn't want DCS while driving on the street unless you were a 'real reckless driver'.

Saying that a real driver wouldn't want DCS on the street is like saying a real driver wouldn't want Air Bags. If a time ever comes for them to be used, you're grateful that they're there because the proverbial **** has already hit the fan.

dwynne

Thanks

Pretty sad that my new 8 gets about the same gas mileage commuting to work (15mpg) as the 394hp M5 I just sold But I knew the mileage would be bad when I got the 8 - but I am hoping it gets better with more miles on the car and/or newer flashes to the computer.

The 8 cost a lot less and is cheaper to insure, so there is that....

Dennis

DARKMAZ8

I didn't mean that only real drivers drive without dsc but saying that an 8 without dsc is worthless and will not sell is just wrong. I was just saying that ppl that want a base 8, want it without those options because the car will weigh less and dsc and tcs will be useless on a track IMO.

Shinka13

Good way to correct yourself, you know people were going to keep at you for the "real driver" comment, myself included. I "learnt" the hard way we sometimes say things and they come out the wrong way. Track puproses is about the only reason I can imagine someone wanting a base anything. (With a few exceptions of course)

BlueEyes

I want the base because I hate leather in sports cars

Sigma

You can get Touring and get all the equipment except Leather, Power Seats, and Heated Mirrors.