DARKMAZ8

yeah, the cloth seats are the shizzy....

DARKMAZ8

I don't think you can in canada. We only get the gs or gt model.

Sigma

Ah, my bad. Yeah, that would make things tougher.

StealthFox

the car is supposed to be a fuggin comfortable daily driver sporty car. not a JGTC 500 class race car. if im gonna niggle over 50 pounds i'll buy a more true sports car or lose some weight or kick my passenger out. im cruising along the streets going to school and occsionally a stoplight drag, i'll sacrifice a .001 difference in 0-60 for my amenities, or just shift better than you to make up for it. >.>]

-edit-

oh and by the way i dont think 'learnt' is a real word

DARKMAZ8

Actually The base is 150lbs lighter and "learnt" is a "real" word.

OH and BTW, I don't think you have a valid drivers licence yet! Although, I'm impressed that you "learnt" so much about the 8 since your dad's probably too busy at work.

Sigma

In a 1/4-mile that 150lbs adds up to a good couple-tenths. You can feel it, for sure. The lack of a moonroof also makes the base car quite a bit more nimble.

Shinka13

Yeah, I totally forgot about the leather versus cloth thing. Honestly, I think I prefer cloth.....it's just been awhile since owning a car w/ cloth. My wife's Jeep, I wanted the V8, therefore we got stuck with the leather. Good point though.

How does the lack of a sunroof make the 8 more nimble? I know they are easier to drive with a helmet on w/o the sunroof.

DARKMAZ8

Yeah, 150lbs doesn't seem like a lot of weight on paper but you can definately feel the difference. I have no regrets. My friend has the GT, he and I both agree that my base is faster. I also plan on further weight reduction with a titanium exhaust and a resonated midpipe. Replacing the heavy *** stock wheels will help too.

Sigma

Moonroofs add a lot of weight right where you least want it -- at the highest point of the car. In the day where Mazda is literally mounting radiators at an angle to shift just a pount or two just millimeters lower to the ground, and even going so far as to shave ounces off a rear-view mirror, we go and stick a 50lb moonroof in our car.

A 50lb moonroof basically shifts the center of gravity of the car up about three-quarters of an inch. Doesn't sound like much, but that's a rather substantial difference.

To give you an idea on how big of a difference it can make, Mitsubishi replaced the roof of the new EVO with an aluminum one that saved about 9lbs off the roof of the car. Just those few pounds made the car noticeably more stable in the corners and made it significantly less likely to lift a wheel in the turns.

I'm not chastising moonroofs. I love 'em. But there is a price to pay if you're really super-concerned about handling.

DARKMAZ8

^^^^what he said

I'd just like to add that a moonroof also takes away some of the rigidity of a vehicle.

StealthFox

you're friggen stupid. i dont need to say anymore, i wouldnt know where to start

StealthFox

your priorities are messed up. with the car you're looking for you need to dump the 8. GIVE UP its not a ******* true purpose built sportscar that minute things like moonroofs are going to severly alter your already subpar performance or really matter. go buy yourself an FD, miata, EVO, used NSX, porsche boxter, lotus elise or better yet a track car. if you're going to bitch about 150 pounds, go buy a car thats light in the first place and is a purpose built sporting car. its like, if you want to get a fit girl, and theres a fat chick and a fit chick in front of you, would you ask the fit girl out and have what you want right away? or would you ask the fat chick out and bust your ***** trying to get her to lose weight? you could also say its like buying a geo metro to make into a fast street racer car, or buying a miata to make a good worktruck.

BlueEyes

Dude, the 8 can be whatever we want it to be. If I can only afford 1 car (cause my dad doesn't buy them for me), need 4 seats, want RWD, and something to take to the track, I have slim pickings. In Canada, it's rx8, mustang, G35, 3 series and that's about it. It is the lightest car that fulfils my needs. I don't know why you're getting angry over it, drive around in your leather, sunroofed 8 and be happy, we'll do the same. Just get out of the way if we're ever on the track together

I should find out what paint is the lightest.

Sigma

Some people want a car that they like to drive everyday but can also serve as a competitive track car when they want it to be.

The FD is too unreliable for most as daily driver and has no rear seats. The Miata, the Boxter, the Elise, and the NSX all also don't have backseats. The EVO for most is probably just ugly.

Every one of those cars an RX-8 buyer could have bought when they bought their RX-8 but they didn't for whatever reason. It didn't suit them, didn't fit their needs, or they just thought it was ugly.

Some people want their vehicles to both pull their boat and haul their family around -- hence we got SUVs. Some people want their vehicles to do that plus be a luxury vehicle -- and we got premium SUVs. And some people want their daily driver to serve as a track vehicle when they want it to. Not everyone can have Daddy go buy them a different car for every purpose.

And for the record, I'd argue that the RX-8 is just as much a purpose-built sportscar as any of the above with the exception of the Elise.

BlueEyes

I don't understand what's stupid about that. Do you understand physics? 150 lbs is a considerable difference.

KYLiquid

nissan makes a base 350z, and its garbage, NO LSD, crappy suspension...ect. and in auto form it can be had for very low 20's if your haggle with the dealer.

the base 350z and base rx8 are for 2 reasons : people who want the image of having the car, and like the looks/style but dont care about whats under the skin and people who want to build a race car (IMO).

have you ever driven a 911 or any of the rear engine porsche's from even just 10 years ago? so much oversteer.... sure it handles great, but i wouldn't say it has perfect balance...so much weight out back, 1 mistake and your spining into the kitty litter (if your lucky) or the woods.

DARKMAZ8

I guess if I'm stupid, then that makes you stupider :p

KYLiquid

I was watching a episode of 5th Gear where they were testing out systems such as traction control and stability (spin) control. It was in a Jaguar (FWD, Automatic) and it was being driven on 'black ice' as well as the snow covered surface of a frozen lake. They were using winter tires, but not studded tires. So the situations were pretty 'real life' for anyone who drives in the winter months up north.

They found that on a slight uphill grade when the road was covered in 'black ice' the car was IMPOSIBLE to start from a stop with the TCS (traction control) off. Once on, even mashing the gas would get you moving after a second of mild wheels spin.

They later tested the SMS (stability control) on the snow covered frozen lake. They had him drive at something like 50mph and he had to avoid 3 objects (foam walls). He had to swerve right, left, right. With the SMS off, he was able to avoid the first wall, and just miss the 2nd wall, but after passing the 2nd wall the car started to spin, and even with muliple attempts at this...he was unable to save the car from going out of control or into the 3rd wall. With the SMS on, he was not only able to miss each wall but by a greater margin AND didnt lose control of the car. The way the SMS functions ( Limiting throtle and applying brakes) it not only kept the car in the drivers control but also slowed the car down.

The car was being driven by Tiff Neddel (spelling?) he is a race car driver that had been a Formula1 driver as well as still competing in road racing/touring cars. While ANY driver can lose control of a car, I would say that he is equipted better than most to control a vehicle.

While the programing and effectiveness of the Jaguar system may be different than the RX8, i have heard the RX8 has one of the better systems out currently.

Bottom line (IMO) the system is to help you keep the car in control under NORMAL driving habbits (not going 3 times the posted limit thru turns, or triple digit speeds on highway off-ramps, ect) in snow, wet, dry, sandy, muddy, ect given the car is in good mechanical condition (brakes, tires, drivetrain all good) its not a cure all for driving like a mad-man(woman) but its a saftey net in case things get a little out of hand.

I enjoy having it on my car...its not a permission slip to drive like a fool...but it does allow me to relax a little when im driving home from work in a rain strom, ect.

I can switch it off partialy (TCS) or totaly (TCS/DSC) if I want, say at a track day or autox even, but there is really no need to have it off when driving on the street.

That said, I was also watching a Best Motoring video (rotary reborn) and they said the even with the TCS/DSC in the RX8 and 350z COMPLETELY TURNED OFF (7+ sec. method) the drivers could still feel the system 'fighting' them when they got into EXTREAM slides/out of control. So im interested to know if the system really goes off 100% (anyone know?)

that is all!

DARKMAZ8

Why are you getting so upset little fella? Fact is, I wasn't concerned about a sunroof, leather, heated seats, power seat, dsc, tcs, nav, ect. Why should I pay for it? The base 8 has everything that I needed so why carry all that extra weight? Don't hate on the base :p

DARKMAZ8

Dsc is a good safty feature for driving aggressively in bad weather.....that is all IMO.

KYLiquid

there is really no way to know that.

heres a little story ill share, its short : there is a 2-lane back road I take to/from work everyday...it has very light trafic the speed limit is 45mph there is a left hand turn (about 80* with a slight bank) on nice days when there is no one ahead of me I just go thru the turn at 50mph, same speed I travel down the road. I have noticed with the the DSC/TCS on, I dont feel the car doing anything, the car goes smoothly and quietly thru the turn, feels really good. One day I was coming home, thru the turn and happened to have the DSC/TCS off, I took it at 50mph as I usualy do...the car still felt good, stable...everything was normal EXCEPT i could hear a slight squeel from the back tires.

-------------------------------

I had no idea that the cars computer was aiding me at all...but it was, it was doing just enough to keep the car 'at the limit' without it was letting the car just start to step over the limit...

I am just glad that this car...like my miata gives VERY good feedback to the driver on what its doing and how much room you have left to play with.

DARKMAZ8

Thing is I was driving 120km in a 40km s turn. The more I think about it, it seem that the dramatic shift in direction is what caused the spin even more than the cold tires.

I don't think DSC would have a hope in Hell of saving me. DSC is for bad road conditions. I have heard that it is very hard to activate in the dry.

DARKMAZ8

But steathfox said he'll just shift better and make up the time. :D

DARKMAZ8

AMEN

storemannormin

I got to say I only read the first page of this post and wanted to add my 2 cents....
I was in the mountains in BC a month ago and was zipping through some serious s turn at 120 klm and had no problem gripping the road what so ever...I thought the 8 was made for the turns. I think you must of went over some loose gravel..Glad to hear you save it.