murix

Heh. Yeah. I was just invited to the bar by a group of girls I know but here I am reading this thread. Thanks for the entertainment!

MazdaRich

The S2K has proven to be just slightly quicker at autocross. The RX-8 is considerably quicker than it's numbers would indicate. See the fact that the 350Z has such a hard time keeping up with it. Not to mention we're starting to get competitive with the STi and Evo in STU.

I bought an RX-8 because I could afford a new one, and because I found the interior and ride to be far better than the Honda. Plus it's got a back seat!

turbodiesel

Quote from shaolin: " when a particular vehicle continues to dominate a class continually it is bumped up a class. as in the case with the s2k"

This comes as no surprise when there are significantly more s2k drivers then 8 drivers in the SCCA. Not to mention that they have 3 more years experience driving their s2k's.

Well then if the numbers are that close and nearly identical between the two cars it is just a matter of time before the 8 gets bumped up a class. Don't forget the s2k has been out over 3 years longer and just recently got bumped.

acumo

I like to live in the present and not some idealistic future. But by all means...

DailyDriver2k5

No i haven't missed the point.....last time i looked there is only one world , this world that we live on. So as far as i am concerned , if a magazine gets results , ITS REAL WORLD RESULTS! Wether it track, 0-60, 1/4 mile, braking, slalom, etc. There is bias in mags because the people that test the car actually like the car, thats a no brainer.

Example,If the S2000 gets better results in all areas than a RX-8 or Z, but they like the 8 because of how its drives , handles, etc, then thats not being biased. The S2000 is clearly the winner through there performance test , but they just like the 8 all around and would suggest the 8 as a runner up , etc.

This applies to other vehicles too...Real world , a Enzo or Porsche GT may destroy a Corvette Z-06 505HP in all catergories, but the testers, enthusiast, rather be in a Z-06 because of its daily driver capabilities. Yet they suggest this to the readers, future car buyers, enthusiast, etc. There not being biased one bit. If a l car just feels right, THEN IT JUST FEELS RIGHT even if this car feels better than the winning car.

In the end Results are Results , wether there from SCCA or Sports car International. Its up to you how you want to accept these results.

turbodiesel

This is to all fellow rotary owners. If you haven't tried it you should. This is how to deal with s2k fanbois and it is so much fun.

Quote from myself turbodiesel: "By the way, I like the fact that it burns oil, that's why I bought it. I like diesels too, the ultimate oil burner. It is such a f''n pleasure to hit the throttle and give fanbois like you a smokescreen.

HolyCross05

Copying paragraphs from other sites and pasting it here pretending like you wrote it is your idea of fun??? Haha, you're a riot. I have to admit though, it's been great watching everyone make a tool of you. But i'm sure you don't care because you'll probably register with a different name. I'll save you some time and suggest the name RotaryTool?

FRANCES

I'm glad you brought that up. There are only a few 8's in STU, but they are getting more competitive. They are allowing the wider tires which have been huge, the SCCA realizes that the handling capability of the chassis is not fully tapped with stock tire sizes. Our stock tire size is a limiting feature for autocross. It is the rules that govern racing that often determines who is fast. But for the street driver as I look at all the numbers in test reports, .3 seconds in a quartermile, and slolom times off by .5 sec is too close to call for us mere mortals (motortrend 2004 s2k vs rx8 vs 350z). The ride for me was much more comfortable on less perfect pavement, and my S2k driver buddy agrees. Mazda dealers will deal too, rarely Honda.

shaolin

okay...who are you arguing with? you misinterpreted solo ii time leads as quarter mile and 0 to 60...in a thread about handling you started rambling about quarter miles.

I never said magazine articles were bias. I said they were subjective. I agree that the 8 is the best car all around daily driven, but the s2k is better on track.

stu is also a valid point, however it changes a few variables from the stock situation.

where did this come from? speculation again. the s2k is produced in far fewer numbers than rx-8. sheer numbers and probability would suggest otherwise.

and as mentioned...we live in the here and now. the rx-8 has had plenty of time to get competitive...plus an overgeneralization of s2k drivers having 3 years advantage isn't a good assumption to make...thts why they tell the vehicle year in the results.

shaolin

okay here's my gripe. seversl of us here are scca members...as everyone knows mag results aren't always the best info...so we look for more info to support other info--such as scca results.

my gripe here is that a few rx-8 fanbois try to make unfounded claim and conjecture that the rx-8 handles better than the s2k. however, all publications and results suggest otherwise...no matter how close the numbers are, they are still different. the fanbois here have no proof of what they talk about only heresay, maketing technobabble, and speculation.

turbodiesel saying the rx-8's rotary setup makes it handle better than an s2k has no foundation other than his say so...furthermore, the results of all comparos and times whether from mag or track...show just the opposite.

so...go ahead and give me the smoke screen...real mature there guy...I'm only trying to be more objective about things in a thread where so many fanbois claim speculation and conjecture as truth.

F22C1

I agree. If the rx-8 has a better lower pole moment, why does it not put up better #'s consistantly? You'd figure a car with this advantage should have no problem "destroying" the Honda be it SCCA or even magazine racing.

The S2000 having a supposive "higher inertia" shouldn't have anything to lose then with it's handicap... that is if it did lose. Too bad at the end of the day it spits out the better numbers.

The bottom line: S2000 is a better performer even with it's "higher inertia" going against it. That just makes it all the more better underdog by this reference. Gee that must also mean S2000 drivers really know how to drive their cars well too...

turbodiesel

Lets not kid ourselves here, there are more s2ks than 8's registered with scca.

shaolin

oh? let me see the proof on those regitration numbers....I'm not saying its not possible but I am saying you're speculating and talking out of your ***.

turbodiesel

This has already been discussed and everyone is in agreement on this issue.

FRANCES

As I explained in the my previous quote, there a several things that go into the stock autocross set up. The S2k has a good wheel size for the chassis to accomodate azenis and other tires that are very competative right now. That is where the STU thing comes into play, allowing the 8 to have wider tires given the limited amount of potential power gained from mods to the engine, lets it take advantage of the chassis design whick is very good. You see the SCCA wants these cars to be in catagories based on certain amounts of set up required. Honda designed a solid platform for that in stock trim (read the rules, these cars are not off the lot set ups). The 8 is also good, but some things like wheel sizes that were optimum for road use are not necessarily good for autocross, and each car had to compromize in favor of one or the other.
And like I've said earlier, my buddy is untouchable in his SRT-4 running D stock, not even the 911 and C6 vette guys can match his times in our region. Very few of us can drive these cars at their potential.
So it seems were back to square one, even steven on these cars with neutral alignments and street tires in my opinion. One is unique in engine and engineering, the other is a drop top.

shaolin

No...you and frances are. I have seen no proof of this statement. It is speculation, and until you provide some source for your claim, it is not fact.

FRANCES

What are we arguing about again?

shaolin

I don't know it's stupid...

turbodiesel likes to call any and all results in the S2K's favor not reputable. Including various magazines and track times...that would all say the same thing.

But I was just calling him, and you if you're making the assumption, out on the fact that his claim that "there are more S2K's competing than RX-8 in SCCA" is speculation. S2K's are a limited production vehicle...RX-8's are mass produced...just go look how many your local dealer has. It just wouldn't make sense...but show me some registration numbers from a valid source and I'll agree with you...however, I'm just saying that he's speculating.

That's all he's done throughout the whole thread is speculate. And he calls it fact at the end of the day, when all TRUE figures and outcomes prove otherwise.

I agree with you though in the STU segment. The only problem here though is that it throws in alot of other variables that make all technical arguments more difficult to prove one way or another.

Anyways I love the RX-8...was waiting to see if the MS RX-8 ever comes out before I trade the S2K in...I was considering trading it in for a Cayman S, but not really sure yet. It's a real debate for me. The RX-8 is an amazing car...I do miss it...

Phantom 4 Door

Hey FRANCES I dnt think Shaolin wants to argue with you because you seem more learned about the situation and he may not win that battle...he would rather go after turbodiesel instead of ignoring him like a person should when they want some1 to shutup.

shaolin

I'm not arguing with anyone who grounds their argument in fact. I'm arguing with speculation...which is what turbodiesel is full of.

There's nothing to argue with Frances about. I do disagree with Frances that driver ability is the sole reason why RX-8's are slower than S2K's in solo ii, but that's beside the point. Frances does not speculate to the point of nauseum.

In fact, Frances stated that he believes both cars are equal in handling. This may be true with the addition of wider tires as in the case of STU classes, and that's fine. Why should I argue with him? He makes rational statements. However, the ranting of someone that the RX-8 is a better handler because of a bunch of marketing technobabble he can hardly understand is what I'm protesting.

Besides...I'm bored here at the office, and watching turbodiesel make a fool of himself is pretty entertaining.

turbodiesel

shaolin:

I have asked that you post the sampling population data from your precious scca days ago but you cannot produce these.

Now as already discussed if someone is into going to the track they are going to buy a 2 door roadster over a 4 door (freestyle door combo) with 4 seats like the 8.

Many of us on here have a problem with the scca result you posted showing some 20 s2ks vs 5 8's

shaolin

still speculation...

well there you have it...you just said it yourself...

more people want the s2k for track purposes than rx-8...argument closed.

turbodiesel

Argument is about handling. I didn't buy the 8 for going to the track, but if I can take it to the track and whup a 2 door roadster which is demoralizing IMHO, well then hey I can have my cake and eat it at the same time i.e. pick up swedish twins afterwards.

HolyCross05

Come again???

shaolin

yeah really...whup a 2 door roadster? all articles and track results say that's a difficult feat...even if you're talking about a miata.

swedish twins huh? wtf does that have to do with anything...I have a vehicle that can accomplish that as well...what's your point?