Test drove an S2000 today (RX8 more fun for sure)
08-07-2006, 11:02 PM
#151
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Okay now you're getting even more desperate.
I am not going to go look up every single chapter but here's one that answers your very question.
http://www.delta-scca.org/
The Delta Region of the SCCA is the local chapter of the Sports Car Club of America for the New Orleans area. It is comprised of people from all walks of life who have in common a love of sports cars and racing. Delta was founded in 1954 by a group of sports car enthusiasts, and is the largest SCCA club in Louisiana, with over 130 members.
I am not going to go look up every single chapter but here's one that answers your very question.
http://www.delta-scca.org/
The Delta Region of the SCCA is the local chapter of the Sports Car Club of America for the New Orleans area. It is comprised of people from all walks of life who have in common a love of sports cars and racing. Delta was founded in 1954 by a group of sports car enthusiasts, and is the largest SCCA club in Louisiana, with over 130 members.
08-07-2006, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by shaolin
Okay now you're getting even more desperate.
I am not going to go look up every single chapter but here's one that answers your very question.
http://www.delta-scca.org/
The Delta Region of the SCCA is the local chapter of the Sports Car Club of America for the New Orleans area. It is comprised of people from all walks of life who have in common a love of sports cars and racing. Delta was founded in 1954 by a group of sports car enthusiasts, and is the largest SCCA club in Louisiana, with over 130 members.
I am not going to go look up every single chapter but here's one that answers your very question.
http://www.delta-scca.org/
The Delta Region of the SCCA is the local chapter of the Sports Car Club of America for the New Orleans area. It is comprised of people from all walks of life who have in common a love of sports cars and racing. Delta was founded in 1954 by a group of sports car enthusiasts, and is the largest SCCA club in Louisiana, with over 130 members.
08-07-2006, 11:05 PM
#153
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Originally Posted by hondasr4kids
I give up. go bang your head or something.
08-07-2006, 11:09 PM
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I believe "all walks of life" would cover any question you had about race, creed, age, body type, etc.
Look the fact of the matter remains...hundreds upon thousands of drivers have posted results pointing at one trend. Average times being less. It seems like you're fighting tooth and nail to try to kick up some sort of way to throw out track times...
These are the most credible because of the diverse sampling...we won't even consider the pros but I'm sure we all remember the BMI fiasco where the RX-8 got beat by everyone even the RSX-R, save for the Miata. So take your pick...diverse track times including amateurs showing the RX-8 being slower, or professionals showing the RX-8 being slower...
I don't like to consider the pros because it is more driver specific. However, there is no denying solo II results...too many drivers on too many levels to deny those results.
Find consolation in the fact that the top contenders in B-stock have been in RX-8's...although their times still behind the S2K...
Look the fact of the matter remains...hundreds upon thousands of drivers have posted results pointing at one trend. Average times being less. It seems like you're fighting tooth and nail to try to kick up some sort of way to throw out track times...
These are the most credible because of the diverse sampling...we won't even consider the pros but I'm sure we all remember the BMI fiasco where the RX-8 got beat by everyone even the RSX-R, save for the Miata. So take your pick...diverse track times including amateurs showing the RX-8 being slower, or professionals showing the RX-8 being slower...
I don't like to consider the pros because it is more driver specific. However, there is no denying solo II results...too many drivers on too many levels to deny those results.
Find consolation in the fact that the top contenders in B-stock have been in RX-8's...although their times still behind the S2K...
08-07-2006, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by shaolin
This is not the first time you put words in my mouth. Rear engined cars can be made to handle just the same as mid engined and as front engined. It's the way the car is balanced to counterweight the location of the engine that affects dynamics.
And again...you fail to comprehend that the driveshaft is acting as a lever from one point to another on to fulcrum ends. The weight of the shaft has no consequence in weight transfer. The carbonfiber driveshaft aids in weight savings and drive wheel response. Your constant rambling about yaw moment is of no significance in the discussion of drive shafts.
And again...you fail to comprehend that the driveshaft is acting as a lever from one point to another on to fulcrum ends. The weight of the shaft has no consequence in weight transfer. The carbonfiber driveshaft aids in weight savings and drive wheel response. Your constant rambling about yaw moment is of no significance in the discussion of drive shafts.
It is a well known engineering practice in the sports car industry to design a car with a low polar yaw moment. Are you disagreeing with this?
You don't have to counterweight a 911 because it's inherently balanced. Don't you get it?
08-07-2006, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by turbodiesel
You are the only one on here who fails to understand this concept.
It is a well known engineering practice in the sports car industry to design a car with a low polar yaw moment. Are you disagreeing with this?
You don't have to counterweight a 911 because it's inherently balanced. Don't you get it?
It is a well known engineering practice in the sports car industry to design a car with a low polar yaw moment. Are you disagreeing with this?
You don't have to counterweight a 911 because it's inherently balanced. Don't you get it?
It was you who touted 50/50 as being the end all be all. No kidding a low yaw moment is the goal of engineers...wow do you think?
I'm simply pointing out to you that the high points that you tout on the RX-8 have not been proven to result in lower yaw moment. If you continue to argue that they do, please show proof.
08-07-2006, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shaolin
hah...and the 911 is a 38/62 weight distribution...REAR bias.
It was you who touted 50/50 as being the end all be all. No kidding a low yaw moment is the goal of engineers...wow do you think?
I'm simply pointing out to you that the high points that you tout on the RX-8 have not been proven to result in lower yaw moment. If you continue to argue that they do, please show proof.
It was you who touted 50/50 as being the end all be all. No kidding a low yaw moment is the goal of engineers...wow do you think?
I'm simply pointing out to you that the high points that you tout on the RX-8 have not been proven to result in lower yaw moment. If you continue to argue that they do, please show proof.
By the 911 being inherently balanced means inherent low polar yaw moment with no need for counterbalance idiot.
08-07-2006, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by turbodiesel
By the 911 being inherently balanced means inherent low polar yaw moment with no need for counterbalance idiot.
08-07-2006, 11:47 PM
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shaolin:
You are missing the whole point. In a perfect world a car would have 50:50 weight distribution with a very low polar yaw moment.
Rear biased cars such as 911 have very low polar yaw moment.
The 8 is the closest thing we have that has both of these attributes. I have explained ad nauseum why the 8's polar yaw moment is lower than s2k's.
1. Longer wheelbase (longer fulcrum points)
2.Shorter longitudinal axis of rotary engine
3. Further aft (rearward) placement of rotatry engine
4. Lightweight carbon-fiber driveshaft
You are missing the whole point. In a perfect world a car would have 50:50 weight distribution with a very low polar yaw moment.
Rear biased cars such as 911 have very low polar yaw moment.
The 8 is the closest thing we have that has both of these attributes. I have explained ad nauseum why the 8's polar yaw moment is lower than s2k's.
1. Longer wheelbase (longer fulcrum points)
2.Shorter longitudinal axis of rotary engine
3. Further aft (rearward) placement of rotatry engine
4. Lightweight carbon-fiber driveshaft
Last edited by turbodiesel; 08-07-2006 at 11:50 PM.
08-08-2006, 12:55 AM
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Here's what Motor Trend had to say about the RX-8 and S2000's handling when they did a comparo, hopefully this helps bring some closure to the argument:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
08-08-2006, 12:57 AM
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and as discussed the s2k is 49/51 and according to some sources actually 50/50.
There is not a better quantitative analysis than solo ii...do you know what a solo ii track is? the single most handling biased track event there is. we have established that driver skill is an eliminated variable.
go do a google video serch for solo ii...there is no way you can say it is not characteristic of handling dynamics.
the purpose of achieving responsive handling is for track times especialy solo ii.
you love to say I contradict but you are the largest proponent of contradiction in this thread...track times are the only real results here, and are evident of handling dynamics...you still have no solid argument against the real world results...the s2k is more competitive in an event where handlin is key...what more do you want?
There is not a better quantitative analysis than solo ii...do you know what a solo ii track is? the single most handling biased track event there is. we have established that driver skill is an eliminated variable.
go do a google video serch for solo ii...there is no way you can say it is not characteristic of handling dynamics.
the purpose of achieving responsive handling is for track times especialy solo ii.
you love to say I contradict but you are the largest proponent of contradiction in this thread...track times are the only real results here, and are evident of handling dynamics...you still have no solid argument against the real world results...the s2k is more competitive in an event where handlin is key...what more do you want?
08-08-2006, 01:12 AM
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S2k is a great car.
But it is more expensive than a RX-8. I wonder how a A-spec (Jap only) RX-8 or a RX-8 with the MS or Tein suspension would compare with the S2k. I saw the video of the A-Spec RX-8 dominating on google videos.
But it is more expensive than a RX-8. I wonder how a A-spec (Jap only) RX-8 or a RX-8 with the MS or Tein suspension would compare with the S2k. I saw the video of the A-Spec RX-8 dominating on google videos.
08-08-2006, 01:24 AM
#167
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Originally Posted by turbodiesel
No souces needed it is self explanatory. Beating a dead horse.
s2k is not 50:50
This discussion is about handling not who can get down the track the fastest. Beating dead horse.
s2k is not 50:50
This discussion is about handling not who can get down the track the fastest. Beating dead horse.
Go tell a Elise owner that 50/50 is optimal... Most of the best handling cars in the world are NOT 50/50. You're a victim of marketing. Handling is not something that can be defined by numbers like weight ditribution, CG, or polar yaw moment, it's something you feel. Yes the RX-8 handles wonderfully, but the S2K handles even better.
Now go plagiarize something else to make yourself look even more foolish.
08-08-2006, 01:59 AM
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I was wondering how long was going to take before Ike jumped in here to put his $.02 on this.
So Ike, what you saying is, since I feel that my SUV handles better than my RX-8, that it actually does? Cool, never though of that.
So Ike, what you saying is, since I feel that my SUV handles better than my RX-8, that it actually does? Cool, never though of that.
08-08-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote from ike: "Handling is not something that can be defined by numbers like weight ditribution, CG, or polar yaw moment, it's something you feel. "
Subjective B.S. Oh hell yeah my F250 "feels" like it corners better than the 8 especially with them stiff shocks no body roll whatsoever.
Quote from ike: "Neither is the RX-8 there sparky, it's closer to 51/49 than it is 50/50. "
Wrong somebody on here posted the numbers a while back. They put the 8 on a scale and found it would be 50:50 with the spare tire. Do a search.
Subjective B.S. Oh hell yeah my F250 "feels" like it corners better than the 8 especially with them stiff shocks no body roll whatsoever.
Quote from ike: "Neither is the RX-8 there sparky, it's closer to 51/49 than it is 50/50. "
Wrong somebody on here posted the numbers a while back. They put the 8 on a scale and found it would be 50:50 with the spare tire. Do a search.
Last edited by turbodiesel; 08-08-2006 at 06:22 AM.
08-08-2006, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by shaolin
and as discussed the s2k is 49/51 and according to some sources actually 50/50.
There is not a better quantitative analysis than solo ii...do you know what a solo ii track is? the single most handling biased track event there is. we have established that driver skill is an eliminated variable.
go do a google video serch for solo ii...there is no way you can say it is not characteristic of handling dynamics.
the purpose of achieving responsive handling is for track times especialy solo ii.
you love to say I contradict but you are the largest proponent of contradiction in this thread...track times are the only real results here, and are evident of handling dynamics...you still have no solid argument against the real world results...the s2k is more competitive in an event where handlin is key...what more do you want?
There is not a better quantitative analysis than solo ii...do you know what a solo ii track is? the single most handling biased track event there is. we have established that driver skill is an eliminated variable.
go do a google video serch for solo ii...there is no way you can say it is not characteristic of handling dynamics.
the purpose of achieving responsive handling is for track times especialy solo ii.
you love to say I contradict but you are the largest proponent of contradiction in this thread...track times are the only real results here, and are evident of handling dynamics...you still have no solid argument against the real world results...the s2k is more competitive in an event where handlin is key...what more do you want?
Driver skill is the most important variable. Just for drama imagine some 90 year old lady vs Mario Andretti. You did say "all walks of life" Now can you get that through your thick skull?
Last edited by turbodiesel; 08-08-2006 at 06:32 AM.
08-08-2006, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueSky
Here's what Motor Trend had to say about the RX-8 and S2000's handling when they did a comparo, hopefully this helps bring some closure to the argument:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html
Nah, much better analysis can be derived from some of the geniuses on here.
08-08-2006, 08:31 AM
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for the fiftieth time...the sheer number of drivers involved would include all varieties of drivers...over 100 chapters of scca across the country with a wide variety of drivers in each and your argument is grannies vs andretti? are you serious? how absurd is that? hundreds and hundreds of drivers and now you defend your ridiculous fanboy argument with something as absurd as this.
by your logic 8 drivers as a whole are poor drivers. take your happy *** to the autocross section of the site and let them know...I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms. speaking of which there are quite a few people on both this and the s2k boards who autocross...let them all know that apparently if you drive an rx-8, you suck at driving and if you drive an s2k, you're a great driver...you know...since the national solo II trends can only be attributed to driver skill...naw...it couldn't be the cars...(insert sarcasm)
back to school for you...go take a statistics class. I'm appalled at your asinine argument...you may as well say the entire population is 50% grannies and 50% andrettis. there are no words to describe the stupidity in your statement.
by your logic 8 drivers as a whole are poor drivers. take your happy *** to the autocross section of the site and let them know...I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms. speaking of which there are quite a few people on both this and the s2k boards who autocross...let them all know that apparently if you drive an rx-8, you suck at driving and if you drive an s2k, you're a great driver...you know...since the national solo II trends can only be attributed to driver skill...naw...it couldn't be the cars...(insert sarcasm)
back to school for you...go take a statistics class. I'm appalled at your asinine argument...you may as well say the entire population is 50% grannies and 50% andrettis. there are no words to describe the stupidity in your statement.
Last edited by shaolin; 08-08-2006 at 09:06 AM.
08-08-2006, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 9291150
You mean this comprehensive test actually comparing the two cars in question? This test from a leading publication that actually ran both cars on the same day, same conditions, same testers, etc.?? This test that awarded the 8 first place???
Nah, much better analysis can be derived from some of the geniuses on here.
Nah, much better analysis can be derived from some of the geniuses on here.
the fact that it gave the 8 first place is purely from a subjective point of view. not that I disagree or agree with their placement, but the overall placement was more of their opinion on the cars as a whole. the 8 just does everything well, where the z and the s2k accelled in other areas...
as I said I'm no genius, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that the s2k is a better handling car than an 8...not a better all around car necessarily, just a better handler. that's all...
Last edited by shaolin; 08-08-2006 at 09:04 AM.