Thinking about buying a RX-8
#26
Fact is, proper maintenance goes a long way with these cars. I believe just a tiny handful of RX-8 owners maintained the cars properly. I'm talking like maybe 5-10% of them. 'Cause we 'muricans don't want to be bothered havin' to maintain our cars, don'tcha know.
Heck, it's a pretty obvious issue when even long term Mazda rotary owners acknowledge the Renesis is an embaressment, or Rotary workshops love the RX8's only cause they keep them busy with rebuilds...... but hey, if it makes you feel better on your purchase, lets all keep pretending these issues are simply related to improper maintenance
#27
Smoking turbo yay
So there you have it. My '05, purchased new, is now almost 14 years old, and after 47K+ miles, has yet to have ANY engine problems. Not a single one. If the car has "design flaws," as you say, that shouldn't be possible now, should it? My '05 has the "paper thin" S1 radiator. My '05 has NO center oil injector. So how did it manage to get this far without dying? Do I have a magic RX-8?? Did a magic fairy come down in the middle of the night and wave her magic wand over my '05 Shinka? Uh, no.
Fact is, proper maintenance goes a long way with these cars. I believe just a tiny handful of RX-8 owners maintained the cars properly. I'm talking like maybe 5-10% of them. 'Cause we 'muricans don't want to be bothered havin' to maintain our cars, don'tcha know. Or even wash 'em. Add that center oil injector and who knows? Maybe the car can go a little further between oil fill-ups and oil changes. That's the conclusion I suspect Mazda engineers came to. Of course, if you check the oil every other fill-up the way you're supposed to, that center oil injector is kind of a moot point, isn't it?
Fact is, proper maintenance goes a long way with these cars. I believe just a tiny handful of RX-8 owners maintained the cars properly. I'm talking like maybe 5-10% of them. 'Cause we 'muricans don't want to be bothered havin' to maintain our cars, don'tcha know. Or even wash 'em. Add that center oil injector and who knows? Maybe the car can go a little further between oil fill-ups and oil changes. That's the conclusion I suspect Mazda engineers came to. Of course, if you check the oil every other fill-up the way you're supposed to, that center oil injector is kind of a moot point, isn't it?
New York isn't that hot from what I have looked up. Idling in the middle of Texan/Californian (40+C/104+F) summer is a different story.
As for "Americans can't check oil level", I don't think our friends on the other side of the pond is particularly better.
And heh, the Owner's Manual does say 8k miles between oil changes are fine, at least in certain regions. Even the Canadian schedule says 5k miles...
Put it this way: I call BS on the whole "50k miles and the engine is toast" thing, but you have to admit it has some poor design decisions, and that's fine. Every car does. Does it get in the way of me enjoying the car? No. I still like it.
Either way, OP has an RX-7. If he can put up with an RX-7, an RX-8 should be no problem.
S1 radiator core is quite a bit thinner than S2 unit, though.
Heck, it's a pretty obvious issue when even long term Mazda rotary owners acknowledge the Renesis is an embaressment, or Rotary workshops love the RX8's only cause they keep them busy with rebuilds...... but hey, if it makes you feel better on your purchase, lets all keep pretending these issues are simply related to improper maintenance
Really, the big problem is that the emission laws are getting more and more ridiculous, to the point that companies have to either cheat(VW is not alone now) or come up with untested technology to meet over-the-top standards.
Even reliable cars like Honda isn't much better off nowadays. Google "Honda VCM lawsuit" and "Honda 1.5T oil dilution". What an embarrassment to the company that built the legendary F20C.
Last edited by UnknownJinX; 10-25-2018 at 06:42 PM.
#28
TBF they addressed some issues with the Renny. There are some good design choices.
Really, the big problem is that the emission laws are getting more and more ridiculous, to the point that companies have to either cheat(VW is not alone now) or come up with untested technology to meet over-the-top standards.
Sure, emissions compliance is the big reason the Mazda rotary evolved into the Renesis. But its the same playing field every other manufacturer were/are playing in too. Plenty of vehicle manufacturers have managed to still design and fit performance engines to production vehicles that have shown to be vastly more reliable, and needing less ongoing, specialized pampering, compared to what the Renesis does...
Don't get me wrong, I'm a rotary guy through and through. Have been daily driving and racing rotaries long before they were even mainstream popular. Probably built over 50 engines, from stock 10A through to ported and turbocharged 20B engines fitted to dragsters, and then everything in between. So I'm not hating on the rotary, but just trying to be honest and pragmatic with what Mazda did with the Renesis, which was take a design that already had a shaky reputation for reliability and simply made it even worse - not by a little bit, but by a lot.
It's funny then to read forum posts where people try to justify the fragility of the motor on every other possible aspect, other than the obvious fundamental and inherit flaws in the design. In this day and age of technology, advanced materials and quality control, it's simply not acceptable to me that a mass produced engine could be so consistently unreliable, given what they should have learnt from their earlier motors.
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Loki (10-25-2018)
#30
I honestly believe that the RX-8 would look a lot better if people stopped comparing it to a FD. IIRC the FD sold for about the same in 1993 and the RX-8 did 20 years later. Which is Corvette money. The RX-7 people should be comparing it to is the S5 (89-91) NA FC with the back seat or 2+2. That car was rated at about 150hp or so, you couldn't fit any adults in the back seat, where as the RX-8 has the most roomy back seats of anything that is a sporty coupe.
#31
Smoking turbo yay
Lol, that was great. if you really want to see some heated debate hope on the 7 club and look up if OMP is better then Pre-mixing. I honestly believe Mazda should have the OMP use 2-cycle or similar instead of the oil from the pan. They maybe able to improve emission with the correct oil.
I honestly believe that the RX-8 would look a lot better if people stopped comparing it to a FD. IIRC the FD sold for about the same in 1993 and the RX-8 did 20 years later. Which is Corvette money. The RX-7 people should be comparing it to is the S5 (89-91) NA FC with the back seat or 2+2. That car was rated at about 150hp or so, you couldn't fit any adults in the back seat, where as the RX-8 has the most roomy back seats of anything that is a sporty coupe.
I honestly believe that the RX-8 would look a lot better if people stopped comparing it to a FD. IIRC the FD sold for about the same in 1993 and the RX-8 did 20 years later. Which is Corvette money. The RX-7 people should be comparing it to is the S5 (89-91) NA FC with the back seat or 2+2. That car was rated at about 150hp or so, you couldn't fit any adults in the back seat, where as the RX-8 has the most roomy back seats of anything that is a sporty coupe.
And yeah, 8 isn't comparable to FD at all. The FD was possible because before the economy bubble burst in Japan, a lot of Japanese car makers were making cars before they even consider the possibility that these cars probably won't sell. The 20B-REW Eunos Cosmo is a perfect example before Mazda actually went on and made the Amati V12 car they had in their plan...
#32
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On "design issues":
Consistently short lifespan would point to either:
1. Insanely bad design -- like, the kind that the most basic testing regime would catch -- or
2. Sacrificing longevity for some other goal, on purpose, in a calculated way.
Pretty clear that neither is the case with the Renesis. Mazda is neither incompetent enough for #1 nor foolish enough for #2.
When engines are troublesome, it's because of some combination of the following:
1. The design and development process didn't properly simulate real-world conditions
2. The design itself is too sensitive to something or other
3. Manufacturing problems
When those things happen, you don't expect all engines to die early. You expect variation. Many engines would die early, but some would last a long time. The same is true of any complex manufactured part.
That's exactly what happens with the Renesis.
Consistently short lifespan would point to either:
1. Insanely bad design -- like, the kind that the most basic testing regime would catch -- or
2. Sacrificing longevity for some other goal, on purpose, in a calculated way.
Pretty clear that neither is the case with the Renesis. Mazda is neither incompetent enough for #1 nor foolish enough for #2.
When engines are troublesome, it's because of some combination of the following:
1. The design and development process didn't properly simulate real-world conditions
2. The design itself is too sensitive to something or other
3. Manufacturing problems
When those things happen, you don't expect all engines to die early. You expect variation. Many engines would die early, but some would last a long time. The same is true of any complex manufactured part.
That's exactly what happens with the Renesis.
Last edited by IamFodi; 10-31-2018 at 09:09 AM.
#33
On "design issues":
Consistently short lifespan would point to either:
1. Insanely bad design -- like, the kind that the most basic testing regime would catch -- or
2. Sacrificing longevity for some other goal, on purpose, in a calculated way.
Pretty clear that neither is the case with the Renesis. Mazda is neither incompetent enough for #1 nor foolish enough for #2.
When engines are troublesome, it's because of some combination of the following:
1. The design and development process didn't properly simulate real-world conditions
2. The design itself is too sensitive to something or other
3. Manufacturing problems
When those things happen, you don't expect all engines to die early. You expect variation. Many engines would die early, but some would last a long time. The same is true of any complex manufactured part.
That's exactly what happens with the Renesis.
Consistently short lifespan would point to either:
1. Insanely bad design -- like, the kind that the most basic testing regime would catch -- or
2. Sacrificing longevity for some other goal, on purpose, in a calculated way.
Pretty clear that neither is the case with the Renesis. Mazda is neither incompetent enough for #1 nor foolish enough for #2.
When engines are troublesome, it's because of some combination of the following:
1. The design and development process didn't properly simulate real-world conditions
2. The design itself is too sensitive to something or other
3. Manufacturing problems
When those things happen, you don't expect all engines to die early. You expect variation. Many engines would die early, but some would last a long time. The same is true of any complex manufactured part.
That's exactly what happens with the Renesis.
People had issues when trying to Turbo the Renesis, and I am not really sure if it is truly do to the side port exhaust or because they are trying to turbo a 6 port engine. If you look into how hard it is to turbo a FC RX-7 6-port engine and make good power you may understand. I never tried but from what I have read it is not that easy. I am not sure if it is a tuning issue or what.
I believe a MSP rotary could be better if it have housing exhaust ports that could be opened at higher RPMs to increase power but be closed at cruise to improve emissions however; I have no idea how it should be built or implemented.
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