Thinking of buying an RX8
02-15-2008, 05:05 PM
#76
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I wish there was an overall ratio of the RX-8's that have had major problems verses ones that have had none for every RX-8 to provide to you and everyone else that questions this car's reliability. It would make it much easier. I can tell you that it seems this car has developed a reputation for being unreliable throughout the general public due to early gremlins and lack of knowledge on the car's engine itself and that's simply not true. You can say I'm biased but you are in an RX-8 forum some some bias is a given. 
thanx for your help -
02-15-2008, 05:23 PM
#77
The reliability is pretty good. There are still an engine issue which may or may have not been resolved, only time will tell.
The MPG on this car is horrible, don't kid your self. The best High way mileage I have heard of is 24mpg. The average is closer to 20mpg, I average between 18mpg to 21 mpg High way. My city driving is 12 to 13MPG. Do not over estimate the MPG, I did and it bugs me to this day.
The MPG on this car is horrible, don't kid your self. The best High way mileage I have heard of is 24mpg. The average is closer to 20mpg, I average between 18mpg to 21 mpg High way. My city driving is 12 to 13MPG. Do not over estimate the MPG, I did and it bugs me to this day.
02-15-2008, 06:10 PM
#78
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Raptor75... lol engine issue as in Side seals failing? might explain the additional oil injector for the 09's
I'd recommend an s2000 if u don't need a 4door 'obviously with the TT as an option', since this car is like getting married..... through the good times and the bad, even if the engine dies, you must take it apart and bring it back to life.... and like most keepers, likes to be driven hard
Have fun shopping!
I'd recommend an s2000 if u don't need a 4door 'obviously with the TT as an option', since this car is like getting married..... through the good times and the bad, even if the engine dies, you must take it apart and bring it back to life.... and like most keepers, likes to be driven hard
Have fun shopping!
02-16-2008, 09:02 AM
#84
High maintenance? Much ado about nothing.
Talk of the 8 being high maintenance is greatly exaggerated. Day to day, owning and driving the 8—in terms of maintenance—is pretty much the same as owning and driving an ordinary car. All this talk about flooding, being stranded, not being able to rely on the car is a lot of hot air.
Starting reliability
I've owned my 8 since Feb '06. The engine ALWAYS fires right up, first turn of the key, every time, no exceptions. Doesn't matter if it's 100º or sub-freezing cold, summer or winter, or if it's been sitting parked for two weeks, it always starts right up. It's as reliable as my toaster.
General reliability
No issues. No squeaks, no rattles. (Well… sunroof rattled a little over bumps, when open. They fixed it.) Basically, I just take her in for oil changes.
Flooding
Much ado about nothing. I've never flooded the car; I dare say most 8 owners never have either. The only thing you have to remember—the ONLY thing—is to not start her up first thing in the morning (stone cold engine), move her 10 feet (say you have to move the car in your driveway so another car can get by), and then turn her off. That's what might cause her to flood. Might.
If it's first thing in the morning and you have to move the car a few feet, just remember to let her idle for three or four minutes—then rev to 3K RPM for 10 seconds—before turning off the engine.
Or… drive it for three or four minutes before turning her off (revving to 3K unnecessary). A 20 minute drive is NOT NECESSARY. Three or four minutes. That's it.
Now… let's say you drive to the mall and shop for a couple of hours. You get back into your 8, start it, and then shut her right off (maybe you forgot to buy something). Will it flood? No. Because the engine wasn't cold. That's only when the car's been sitting overnight, or for many, many hours.
So, as long as you remember to not start her up first thing in the morning and then shut her right down again, ten seconds later, you'll be fine. It's not hard to remember; I don't give it a second thought. Frankly, even before I bought the 8, I can't recall situations where I had to move my car ten feet first thing in the morning. Doesn't come up much in real life. And if, by chance, it should, I'll just remember to let her run a few minutes before turning her off.
"The 8 is high maintenance"
Uh… no. There's just two little things, and they're not very hard to remember. One, avoid flooding, which we've discussed. Two, you're supposed to check the oil level every other fill-up. Excuse me, but aren't you supposed to do that with every car? I always have, so that's not different for me. Oh, and another thing, you'll hear "the 8 burns oil, or guzzles oil." Nope. Doesn't. It sips oil, in very small amounts. I add maybe a quart over 2,000 miles. Big deal. And it burns oil by design. There are people who will casually tell you "the 8 burns oil," as if it were an old VW with a defective head gasket. No. The Renesis injects a small amount of oil on purpose.
Mileage
The others are right, you won't get great mileage with this car. I usually get 17-18mpg doing 65% highway/35% city. All highway, maybe 22mpg.
But in terms of reliability, I have no hesitation in recommending the 8. For me, reliability is not even an issue.
Starting reliability
I've owned my 8 since Feb '06. The engine ALWAYS fires right up, first turn of the key, every time, no exceptions. Doesn't matter if it's 100º or sub-freezing cold, summer or winter, or if it's been sitting parked for two weeks, it always starts right up. It's as reliable as my toaster.
General reliability
No issues. No squeaks, no rattles. (Well… sunroof rattled a little over bumps, when open. They fixed it.) Basically, I just take her in for oil changes.
Flooding
Much ado about nothing. I've never flooded the car; I dare say most 8 owners never have either. The only thing you have to remember—the ONLY thing—is to not start her up first thing in the morning (stone cold engine), move her 10 feet (say you have to move the car in your driveway so another car can get by), and then turn her off. That's what might cause her to flood. Might.
If it's first thing in the morning and you have to move the car a few feet, just remember to let her idle for three or four minutes—then rev to 3K RPM for 10 seconds—before turning off the engine.
Or… drive it for three or four minutes before turning her off (revving to 3K unnecessary). A 20 minute drive is NOT NECESSARY. Three or four minutes. That's it.
Now… let's say you drive to the mall and shop for a couple of hours. You get back into your 8, start it, and then shut her right off (maybe you forgot to buy something). Will it flood? No. Because the engine wasn't cold. That's only when the car's been sitting overnight, or for many, many hours.
So, as long as you remember to not start her up first thing in the morning and then shut her right down again, ten seconds later, you'll be fine. It's not hard to remember; I don't give it a second thought. Frankly, even before I bought the 8, I can't recall situations where I had to move my car ten feet first thing in the morning. Doesn't come up much in real life. And if, by chance, it should, I'll just remember to let her run a few minutes before turning her off.
"The 8 is high maintenance"
Uh… no. There's just two little things, and they're not very hard to remember. One, avoid flooding, which we've discussed. Two, you're supposed to check the oil level every other fill-up. Excuse me, but aren't you supposed to do that with every car? I always have, so that's not different for me. Oh, and another thing, you'll hear "the 8 burns oil, or guzzles oil." Nope. Doesn't. It sips oil, in very small amounts. I add maybe a quart over 2,000 miles. Big deal. And it burns oil by design. There are people who will casually tell you "the 8 burns oil," as if it were an old VW with a defective head gasket. No. The Renesis injects a small amount of oil on purpose.
Mileage
The others are right, you won't get great mileage with this car. I usually get 17-18mpg doing 65% highway/35% city. All highway, maybe 22mpg.
But in terms of reliability, I have no hesitation in recommending the 8. For me, reliability is not even an issue.
02-16-2008, 11:38 AM
#86
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Yeah - I got my car used i think with a failing engine, and was one of the drivers that fell into the 'hard start' problem. Since the new engine, new plugs & wires, stronger battery... i haven't had a problem.
As far as the 09's go. It looks like from Rotary Gods post in the Tech section, it's getting 2 more oil injectors, 1 per rotor housing. Bigger oil pan... i'm waiting for the whitepaper when it comes out, this might be the engineers solution to some engines failing due to apex or side seal failures....
As far as the 09's go. It looks like from Rotary Gods post in the Tech section, it's getting 2 more oil injectors, 1 per rotor housing. Bigger oil pan... i'm waiting for the whitepaper when it comes out, this might be the engineers solution to some engines failing due to apex or side seal failures....
02-16-2008, 12:30 PM
#88
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lol... Sorry Razz1 dude is planning on buying a used one.. and it looks like warranties overseas aren't like they are here in the USA. I got a 2 year extended warranty that i just exercised an engine warranty claim on. So getting a used 8 i think is different then getting a regular used combustion cylinder car. And with web info popping up on he 09' engine change, best he be informed. 
dude is planning on buying a used one.. and it looks like warranties overseas aren't like they are here in the USA. I got a 2 year extended warranty that i just exercised an engine warranty claim on. So getting a used 8 i think is different then getting a regular used combustion cylinder car. And with web info popping up on he 09' engine change, best he be informed.
02-16-2008, 01:53 PM
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Why can't u believe it? This is a discussion forum on the rx8! And guess what we are discussing - the inns and outs of rx8s. There are of course other threads if you don't want to read this one - if it annoys you so much why don't you read something else?
02-16-2008, 02:17 PM
#91
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ehh.. front facia & foglights are different, higher end model is rumored to come with Recaro seats. Option for built in bluetooth hands free. Rear tail lights are different, side vents where strakes were optional are different... what else...
I don't know what package it is, but there is a package (i'm assuming if they offer recaros as a package, it will include this also) stiffer shock springs. But what releases in Japan vs what releases off their shores is always different.
But there are cosmetic differences. everyone on the board is very interested in the change in oil delivery... at least i am
I don't know what package it is, but there is a package (i'm assuming if they offer recaros as a package, it will include this also) stiffer shock springs. But what releases in Japan vs what releases off their shores is always different.
But there are cosmetic differences. everyone on the board is very interested in the change in oil delivery... at least i am
02-16-2008, 02:37 PM
#92
Although it's about time they rearranged the oil filter to the bottom, for greater ease of access, that's about all I like about the '09. They seemed to have just stuck on a bunch of plastic that detracts from the prior clean lines.
I would go for a slightly used/new '07/'08 if I were looking right now.
I would go for a slightly used/new '07/'08 if I were looking right now.
02-16-2008, 03:10 PM
#93
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yeah.. front fascia look better functional wise imo, but once u sla a licrnse plate on it....
i don't care for the rear lights at all. The additional injectors i wish would warrant a recall but it won't... heck the clutch pedal bracket should warrant a recall if it starts getting up there in numbers...
Car is a one of a kind comparatively... nearest match is the 350z, and i don't think access to the rear 2+2 seats is that great.. specially if u got 2 kids
i don't care for the rear lights at all. The additional injectors i wish would warrant a recall
but it won't... heck the clutch pedal bracket should warrant a recall if it starts getting up there in numbers...Car is a one of a kind comparatively... nearest match is the 350z, and i don't think access to the rear 2+2 seats is that great.. specially if u got 2 kids
02-17-2008, 07:50 AM
#94
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i think the styling of the car is perfect now - they will just be adding stuff that isnt needed cosmetically for me.
Oil delivery? It wouldnt make me wait a year for that, nah!
Oil delivery? It wouldnt make me wait a year for that, nah!
Last edited by steverothery; 02-17-2008 at 10:07 AM.
02-17-2008, 08:19 AM
#95
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Yep they just added a bunch of modern/trendy styling gimmicks for the sake of change. Nothing terribly wrong with the '09 but absolutely no reason to hold out for it.
02-18-2008, 02:22 AM
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Mazda needs to bend over and make a double din stereo standard... the new side vents look lifted from a bmw, rear lights goes to a vw passat (somebody gets cred on here for that). though the front Facia looks more functional, foglights look blah (I think having a license plate relocation would have been better IMO).
I wouldn't be surprised that a good portion of poor rx-8 sales are due to the sales reps themselves, with the dealers getting burned 04 to pre 06 with all the recalls and engine replacements... As a dealer, who really wants to move off their lot that type of possible return repair?
In response to the 'Slightly Different oil system'. It's more then slight, if those two additional injectors resolve the whitepaper report on surface area hotspots, it basically validates a flaw of imminent failure on pre 09's. Once again i'm being overly extreme, as there are a great majority of board members to say the least that have flawless daily runs with their 8. But how many have just treated there 8 as a typical combustion engine... start it up.. drive off while cold, start up.. oh gotta go grab something i forgot in the house, shutoff before warmup. 3k miles (Owners Manual states 5k service cycle between changes in 04 model) with oil detergents showing breakdown. By that i mean black oil vs near clear and clean, regardless if it's standard or synthetic, resistance to flashpoint reduces as the detergent molecules start to break down. factor that into the OMP that lubes apex seals and side seals using the same oil reservoir (OMP mod to bypass this into it's own reservoir is popular) adds another factor to engine longevity.
Hence regardless if you bought an 09' used, you don't know what the previous owner was like.
The oil design change for 09's IMO is monumental when you look at it from Manufacturers standpoint. Sure you see parts modification to increase the parts reliability for say (Starters, ignition system, crank & Journel bearings, oil pumps, fuel pumps) But thats to update an existing part that they found a better way to increase said parts performance for that chassis codes life cycle, I can't think of/don't know of a car manufacturer that has changed engine design mid life-cycle. With the additional 2 oil injectors, in turn warranting a bigger oil pan and different OMP <-- pump for the internal injectors. Screams to me they revisited the design, and found the only solution is NOT to modify an existing part of the "system", but to include additional parts (External factor) to increase Engine Reliability.
I don't know whether to commend Mazda into being pro-active and including this pre 16x design release. Or throwing my hands in the air (which i'm obviously doing) saying W-heres T-he F-un! when they can just look ahead, knowing pre 09' owners are shafted to a higher probability of engine failure.
I'm seriously not trying to steer you away from the 8. But unless you buy it new, you really don't know how it's been handled the last 30k or 16k of it's life. Which is why I stress the warranty part to C.Y.A. With emissions requirements for ULEV, and this car marketed globally, + USA C.A.F.E tightening the ropes on Manufacturers, it's a awesome that Mazda can still bring this to the market.
Oh, if you happen to get the 09' with the Recaro seats and don't like em. I'll trade you
I wouldn't be surprised that a good portion of poor rx-8 sales are due to the sales reps themselves, with the dealers getting burned 04 to pre 06 with all the recalls and engine replacements... As a dealer, who really wants to move off their lot that type of possible return repair?
In response to the 'Slightly Different oil system'. It's more then slight, if those two additional injectors resolve the whitepaper report on surface area hotspots, it basically validates a flaw of imminent failure on pre 09's. Once again i'm being overly extreme, as there are a great majority of board members to say the least that have flawless daily runs with their 8. But how many have just treated there 8 as a typical combustion engine... start it up.. drive off while cold, start up.. oh gotta go grab something i forgot in the house, shutoff before warmup. 3k miles (Owners Manual states 5k service cycle between changes in 04 model) with oil detergents showing breakdown. By that i mean black oil vs near clear and clean, regardless if it's standard or synthetic, resistance to flashpoint reduces as the detergent molecules start to break down. factor that into the OMP that lubes apex seals and side seals using the same oil reservoir (OMP mod to bypass this into it's own reservoir is popular) adds another factor to engine longevity.
Hence regardless if you bought an 09' used, you don't know what the previous owner was like.
The oil design change for 09's IMO is monumental when you look at it from Manufacturers standpoint. Sure you see parts modification to increase the parts reliability for say (Starters, ignition system, crank & Journel bearings, oil pumps, fuel pumps) But thats to update an existing part that they found a better way to increase said parts performance for that chassis codes life cycle, I can't think of/don't know of a car manufacturer that has changed engine design mid life-cycle. With the additional 2 oil injectors, in turn warranting a bigger oil pan and different OMP <-- pump for the internal injectors. Screams to me they revisited the design, and found the only solution is NOT to modify an existing part of the "system", but to include additional parts (External factor) to increase Engine Reliability.
I don't know whether to commend Mazda into being pro-active and including this pre 16x design release. Or throwing my hands in the air (which i'm obviously doing) saying W-heres T-he F-un! when they can just look ahead, knowing pre 09' owners are shafted to a higher probability of engine failure.
I'm seriously not trying to steer you away from the 8. But unless you buy it new, you really don't know how it's been handled the last 30k or 16k of it's life. Which is why I stress the warranty part to C.Y.A. With emissions requirements for ULEV, and this car marketed globally, + USA C.A.F.E tightening the ropes on Manufacturers, it's a awesome that Mazda can still bring this to the market.
Oh, if you happen to get the 09' with the Recaro seats and don't like em. I'll trade you
Last edited by whitebeau; 02-18-2008 at 02:27 AM.
02-18-2008, 12:54 PM
#98
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bit confused on some of what you said. You where a bit unclear about the oil system? Whats the big advantage of this new design then? And how big an advantage it is to one person, might not be to another.
What are u talking about that every mazda before 09 is more or less dodgy and has a higher chance of not lasting/having engine failure? How what why when where?
Cheers
What are u talking about that every mazda before 09 is more or less dodgy and has a higher chance of not lasting/having engine failure? How what why when where?
Cheers
02-18-2008, 01:03 PM
#99
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"Oh no the Sky is falling (on old RX-8s)!" opinion about this (new oil system) is a bit much. There are 10 of thousands of pre-09 RX-8s out there in the big bad world that have not had the problems of a few re: engine replacements. Of those with problems only Mazda knows the cause(s) and they aren't telling numbers, maybe it's the oiling issue, maybe not, likely some though.
It's not the 1st time any automaker has made improvements in a car's engine, and won't be the last. And the rotary is not the only engine that can be made better and more reliable thru design improvements. Such is the nature of progress. FWIW the RENESIS is more reliable than ITS predessors, and hopefully the '09s and the 16x will be better still.
None of this should keep a sane person from making buy judements based on his or her perceived goals. It's just something to keep in mind that if you pay the big bucks for new, you get (as yet unproven) "improvements".
It's not the 1st time any automaker has made improvements in a car's engine, and won't be the last. And the rotary is not the only engine that can be made better and more reliable thru design improvements. Such is the nature of progress. FWIW the RENESIS is more reliable than ITS predessors, and hopefully the '09s and the 16x will be better still.
None of this should keep a sane person from making buy judements based on his or her perceived goals. It's just something to keep in mind that if you pay the big bucks for new, you get (as yet unproven) "improvements".
02-18-2008, 02:07 PM
#100
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true.. i am painting a bleak picture.
"Oh no the Sky is falling (on old RX-8s)!" opinion about this (new oil system) is a bit much. There are 10 of thousands of pre-09 RX-8s out there in the big bad world that have not had the problems of a few re: engine replacements. Of those with problems only Mazda knows the cause(s) and they aren't telling numbers, maybe it's the oiling issue, maybe not, likely some though.
True, it really does break down to oil change maintenance being the critical part i think. So I agree, it's a great engine. MNAO doesn't allow engine teardowns for warranty repair so true they are the key holder to the stats. I'm saying that they didn't just make an improvement to an engine, they made the improvement by adding an additional part in essence a complete engine revision, not something that can be applied to previous models without new omp, pcm flash, 2 injectors, modification to housing to accomodate the 2 injectors. Generally existing parts get revised for better performance, this is a revision to the design by ADDING to the Renesis design, not modifying an existing part.
In short, if your intended 8 steverothery has been taken care of, maintain the oil changes and you should be fine... statistically