US RX-8 sales (not good)
03-04-2006, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
Was another thread really necessary? Just put your thoughts in the other thread and delete this one, if you don't a mod will do it for you.
03-05-2006, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by viggen
Sales not great because:
1. They haven't done anything to the car in three years! No powertrain enhancment, no refresh, no sport+ pacakge, nothing... The 350z on the otherhand, has had a styling refresh, interior upgrade, powertrain upgrade and better sales with a more limited 2 seat package
2. People still don't know what to maek of RX-8 -- lefitimate sports car, sporty coupe, what is it?
3. Poor marketing -- Mazda never positioned the car as a real sports car and focused on the rotary instead. Americans couldn't car less about whether or not the car has a rotary -- what kind of car is it, how much hp does it have and how fast does it go?
4. Low awareness -- I live in NJ now -- can't tell you how many people still come up and complement me on my car and have no idea what it is or that Mazda makes any sports car other then Miata. When I open the suicide doors in public, they continue to draw big crowds...
5. Fuel econ is a non-issue. Who buys a car like this for fuel econ?
6. Lack of power is the issue. Yes, RX-8 is a better all around car than 350z no doubt. But it's hard to argue with 300hp for the same price as our 232hp
7. Credibility. Mazda has lost a lot of credibility over the years by mis-representing hp figures. First with Miata, now with RX-8 which started at 250, dropped to 240, then 238, now 232. I can honestly say that if I knew the hp figure was really 232 back when I bought my car, I probably would have bought something else -- not entirely rational or intelligent, but probably true
8. And last, related to the above, how is it that for essentially the same monet we get 80hp less than 350z drivers. And tht's not counting the even bigger and more important torque disparity!
Very last, I have thoroughly enjoyed my RX-8 which is what really counts. Handling is a blast, as is downshifting to 3rd at 7000+ rpm. Plus, I love the looks and always look over my shoulder at the car as I walk away -- great styling, aggressive, good stance, sits low on the wheels, etc...
1. They haven't done anything to the car in three years! No powertrain enhancment, no refresh, no sport+ pacakge, nothing... The 350z on the otherhand, has had a styling refresh, interior upgrade, powertrain upgrade and better sales with a more limited 2 seat package
2. People still don't know what to maek of RX-8 -- lefitimate sports car, sporty coupe, what is it?
3. Poor marketing -- Mazda never positioned the car as a real sports car and focused on the rotary instead. Americans couldn't car less about whether or not the car has a rotary -- what kind of car is it, how much hp does it have and how fast does it go?
4. Low awareness -- I live in NJ now -- can't tell you how many people still come up and complement me on my car and have no idea what it is or that Mazda makes any sports car other then Miata. When I open the suicide doors in public, they continue to draw big crowds...
5. Fuel econ is a non-issue. Who buys a car like this for fuel econ?
6. Lack of power is the issue. Yes, RX-8 is a better all around car than 350z no doubt. But it's hard to argue with 300hp for the same price as our 232hp
7. Credibility. Mazda has lost a lot of credibility over the years by mis-representing hp figures. First with Miata, now with RX-8 which started at 250, dropped to 240, then 238, now 232. I can honestly say that if I knew the hp figure was really 232 back when I bought my car, I probably would have bought something else -- not entirely rational or intelligent, but probably true
8. And last, related to the above, how is it that for essentially the same monet we get 80hp less than 350z drivers. And tht's not counting the even bigger and more important torque disparity!
Very last, I have thoroughly enjoyed my RX-8 which is what really counts. Handling is a blast, as is downshifting to 3rd at 7000+ rpm. Plus, I love the looks and always look over my shoulder at the car as I walk away -- great styling, aggressive, good stance, sits low on the wheels, etc...
2.) It doesn't shine in any one area of appeal to any certain demographic and market. At first it seemed like this would help the RX-8, now it seems like maybe it needed a little more focused.
3.) True, and the ads and commercials for the RX-8 were cutesy and awful IMO.
4.) It's that way with a lot of cars, the mojority of the people on the roads have no clue what my car is and what it's capable of.
5.) It is an issue when you can buy a car that's faster and gets better gas mileage.
6.) Yes, HP means a lot in this market, especially in this day and age of tuner cars and mod crazy people. Which is another factor, the RX-8 just isn't as mod friendly as many other cars that it competes with.
7.) 232 is probably still a little generous unless the '06 turns out to be a little faster than the '04 and '05. But yes, a lot of people like to take that little bit of Mazda history and put down the RX-8 for the HP debacle.
8.) Well, the Z is a little more expensive than the RX-8, the R&D that went into that engine was also most likely not as costly as what Nissan had to do. Also, you can't get nearly as much off MSRP when buying a Z as you can when buying an RX-8, so the market has helped take care of that disparity.
03-05-2006, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 9291150
RX8 GT, you hit the nail on the head in terms of why the 8 has been a success, it is its own platform, meaning no compromises. I can't think of another everyday car that shares so little with other models.
Any car, especially the sporting types that share a platform like the EVO, STI, 350Z, etc. all are compromised. It is easily evident where each are compromised, be it in increased weight, weight distribution, suspension type and mounting points, center of gravity, etc. etc. etc.
They can make a quick car out of everthing, look at a 500HP SRT10 pick up truck! BUT, a true enthusiast can see and feel the differences. The STI and Evo types don't think of their cars as Lancers and Imprezas, but that is really what they are.
This is a reason why the RX8 is respected by automotive media, it is the real thing. If they based the Mazda flagship on a Protege, it would get little respect.
Any car, especially the sporting types that share a platform like the EVO, STI, 350Z, etc. all are compromised. It is easily evident where each are compromised, be it in increased weight, weight distribution, suspension type and mounting points, center of gravity, etc. etc. etc.
They can make a quick car out of everthing, look at a 500HP SRT10 pick up truck! BUT, a true enthusiast can see and feel the differences. The STI and Evo types don't think of their cars as Lancers and Imprezas, but that is really what they are.
This is a reason why the RX8 is respected by automotive media, it is the real thing. If they based the Mazda flagship on a Protege, it would get little respect.
03-05-2006, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by doctor_90210
There is nothing controversial about your statements. You are objectively correct on every single point you have made. You may have, however, people with low IQ's (who don't know it) trolling around "trying" too hard to pick apart what you say and their lackeys. Only an idiot with blinders and ego compulsion would even try to counter your statements.
03-05-2006, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by doctor_90210
There is nothing controversial about your statements. You are objectively correct on every single point you have made. You may have, however, people with low IQ's (who don't know it) trolling around "trying" too hard to pick apart what you say and their lackeys. Only an idiot with blinders and ego compulsion would even try to counter your statements.
The doctor is right, and Ike stop hyjacking this thread. We are'nt concerned with your Evo thoughts.
03-05-2006, 07:50 AM
#282
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While you verbal vultures go about picking the bones of the 'good as dead RX-8' - Mazda happily builds more RX-8s every day, expands the platform product line base very economically with the Miata..opps MX-5, and likely soon the Kabura (as already mentioned)
...meanwhile this keeps the watchful beancounters very happy digesting the amazing ROI made by a bunch of fanatic midnight-hour Mazda Rotary engineers on practically no budget passionately buiding a crazy 4-dr RD FME sports car that barely never was. Not to mention the intrinsic marketing value the car brings to all who know & love Mazda cars DNA.
Better find another easier meal... it's gonna be awhile
...meanwhile this keeps the watchful beancounters very happy digesting the amazing ROI made by a bunch of fanatic midnight-hour Mazda Rotary engineers on practically no budget passionately buiding a crazy 4-dr RD FME sports car that barely never was. Not to mention the intrinsic marketing value the car brings to all who know & love Mazda cars DNA.
Better find another easier meal... it's gonna be awhile
03-05-2006, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 9291150
RX8 GT, you hit the nail on the head in terms of why the 8 has been a success, it is its own platform, meaning no compromises. I can't think of another everyday car that shares so little with other models.
Any car, especially the sporting types that share a platform like the EVO, STI, 350Z, etc. all are compromised. It is easily evident where each are compromised, be it in increased weight, weight distribution, suspension type and mounting points, center of gravity, etc. etc. etc.
They can make a quick car out of everthing, look at a 500HP SRT10 pick up truck! BUT, a true enthusiast can see and feel the differences. The STI and Evo types don't think of their cars as Lancers and Imprezas, but that is really what they are.
This is a reason why the RX8 is respected by automotive media, it is the real thing. If they based the Mazda flagship on a Protege, it would get little respect.
Any car, especially the sporting types that share a platform like the EVO, STI, 350Z, etc. all are compromised. It is easily evident where each are compromised, be it in increased weight, weight distribution, suspension type and mounting points, center of gravity, etc. etc. etc.
They can make a quick car out of everthing, look at a 500HP SRT10 pick up truck! BUT, a true enthusiast can see and feel the differences. The STI and Evo types don't think of their cars as Lancers and Imprezas, but that is really what they are.
This is a reason why the RX8 is respected by automotive media, it is the real thing. If they based the Mazda flagship on a Protege, it would get little respect.
Personally, I think that one of the reasons sales are not so good is that the rotary engine is just a gimmick. The benefits (small size) are outweighed by the negatives (low torque, low power, guzzles gas, drinks oil). Porsche and Subaru achieve the same goals with their boxer engines (placing the engine low to the ground and as far back - or forward for the Porsches - as possible so as to improve weight distribution) without all the problems of the rotary.
03-05-2006, 10:32 AM
#284
Oh God, here Ike goes again.
For the record: Whenever I see an Evo on the road, I'm fully prepared to see a 17-20 year old -high on rice- behind the wheel, with that silly *** wing on the back of the car, looking to red light race.
Sorry if that description fits you, Ike. It may or may not.
I'd be embarrassed to pull up to work or meet with a client driving in something that looks like the Evo. It looks like it belongs in the X Games.
In fact, it looks like a Lancer with Downs Syndrome.
Having said that, it appears the Evo hits its mark just fine, is selling well, and new Evo owners are satisfied with their purchase. Good for them all.
The RX-8 is the best of all worlds. Great performance, sophisticated looks, upscale interior, quiet, drama free ride, a relatively unique car you don't see on every corner, and a semblance of a back seat when you need one in a pinch.
And eric - sorry bud, but the STi is almost as hideous, with the ricer hood scoop, and the ugly *** rear end.
Economy cars with larger engines and upgraded shocks/struts/brakes are still economy cars. That they didn't bother to do much with the rental car interiors is the deepest cut.
For the record: Whenever I see an Evo on the road, I'm fully prepared to see a 17-20 year old -high on rice- behind the wheel, with that silly *** wing on the back of the car, looking to red light race.
Sorry if that description fits you, Ike. It may or may not.
I'd be embarrassed to pull up to work or meet with a client driving in something that looks like the Evo. It looks like it belongs in the X Games.
In fact, it looks like a Lancer with Downs Syndrome.
Having said that, it appears the Evo hits its mark just fine, is selling well, and new Evo owners are satisfied with their purchase. Good for them all.
The RX-8 is the best of all worlds. Great performance, sophisticated looks, upscale interior, quiet, drama free ride, a relatively unique car you don't see on every corner, and a semblance of a back seat when you need one in a pinch.
And eric - sorry bud, but the STi is almost as hideous, with the ricer hood scoop, and the ugly *** rear end.
Economy cars with larger engines and upgraded shocks/struts/brakes are still economy cars. That they didn't bother to do much with the rental car interiors is the deepest cut.
Last edited by RotoRocket; 03-05-2006 at 10:47 AM.
03-05-2006, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sti_eric
I guess it's just sad, then, that Subaru and Mitsubishi can take a crummy econobox and turn it into a high performance car that costs the same as an RX-8, yet can outaccelerate, outhandle, outbrake, and generally outperform Mazda's supposedly "pure sports car" built on a specially built chassis.
Personally, I think that one of the reasons sales are not so good is that the rotary engine is just a gimmick. The benefits (small size) are outweighed by the negatives (low torque, low power, guzzles gas, drinks oil). Porsche and Subaru achieve the same goals with their boxer engines (placing the engine low to the ground and as far back - or forward for the Porsches - as possible so as to improve weight distribution) without all the problems of the rotary.
Personally, I think that one of the reasons sales are not so good is that the rotary engine is just a gimmick. The benefits (small size) are outweighed by the negatives (low torque, low power, guzzles gas, drinks oil). Porsche and Subaru achieve the same goals with their boxer engines (placing the engine low to the ground and as far back - or forward for the Porsches - as possible so as to improve weight distribution) without all the problems of the rotary.
Outbrake - not sure
Outhandle - never
Outperform - to each his own
Negative
Low Torque - yes like many race engines - better in tUrbo form
Low power - perhaps to those who thinks only size matters
Drinks Oil - a little thirsty perhaps
Gimmick - I disagree being "RX8_GT" and you agree being "STI_Eric"
Oh - and Porsche are built from the ground up as sports cars - not upgraded sedans or econoboxes. EVOs and STIs are very nice cars - just not my cup of tea.
One final question - having never visited a EVO or STI forums - Are there RX8 owners over there talking down EVOs and STI ?
Last edited by RX8_GT; 03-05-2006 at 10:46 AM.
03-05-2006, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Oh God, here Ike goes again.
For the record: Whenever I see an Evo on the road, I'm fully prepared to see a 17-20 year old -high on rice- behind the wheel, with that silly *** wing on the back of the car, looking to red light race.
((((((In fact, it looks like a Lancer with Downs Syndrome.)))))) .
For the record: Whenever I see an Evo on the road, I'm fully prepared to see a 17-20 year old -high on rice- behind the wheel, with that silly *** wing on the back of the car, looking to red light race.
((((((In fact, it looks like a Lancer with Downs Syndrome.)))))) .
03-05-2006, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by RX8_GT
Outaccelerate - yes
Outbrake - not sure
Outhandle - never
Outperform - to each his own
Outbrake - not sure
Outhandle - never
Outperform - to each his own
Originally Posted by RX8_GT
Negative
Low Torque - yes like many race engines - better in tUrbo form
Low power - perhaps to those who thinks only size matters
Drinks Oil - a little thirsty perhaps
Low Torque - yes like many race engines - better in tUrbo form
Low power - perhaps to those who thinks only size matters
Drinks Oil - a little thirsty perhaps
Originally Posted by RX8_GT
Gimmick - I disagree being "RX8_GT" and you agree being "STI_Eric"
Originally Posted by RX8_GT
One final question - having never visited a EVO or STI forums - Are there RX8 owners over there talking down EVOs and STI ?
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
And eric - sorry bud, but the STi is almost as hideous, with the ricer hood scoop, and the ugly *** rear end.
03-05-2006, 11:09 AM
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The down side of the Sti is it's an econobox, appliance fitted, from the factory,to put down numbers that match real sportscars. You can do the same with a civic for alot less money. Any base car model can be made to perform #'s like a sportscar. That's why so many mustang owners mod the hell out of their GT's and cobras.
03-05-2006, 11:09 AM
#289
Originally Posted by sti_eric
I find that the only people who talk down about the way the STi and Evo look are car owners who are totally insecure with their car purchase when they see what they could've had with performance car like an STi or Evo.
I'm not insecure in the least. That the STi is about 1.3 seconds faster to 60 and faster in the 1/4 mile than the 8 is about your only bragging right. If you drive it to take advantage of these attributes, you'll be getting far worse mpg than I do (which has been an honest 19-20 mpg).
The car is objectively ugly, just like the Evo, and both have cheap *** interiors, noisy suspensions/interiors and go kart ride quality.
Enjoy your riced out econobox. I'd rather have my 8 anyday buddy.
03-05-2006, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Nope. Never going to happen.
I'm not insecure in the least. That the STi is about 1.3 seconds faster to 60 and faster in the 1/4 mile than the 8 is about your only bragging right. If you drive it to take advantage of these attributes, you'll be getting far worse mpg than I do (which has been an honest 19-20 mpg).
The car is objectively ugly, just like the Evo, and both have cheap *** interiors, noisy suspensions/interiors and go kart ride quality.
Enjoy your riced out econobox. I'd rather have my 8 anyday buddy.
I'm not insecure in the least. That the STi is about 1.3 seconds faster to 60 and faster in the 1/4 mile than the 8 is about your only bragging right. If you drive it to take advantage of these attributes, you'll be getting far worse mpg than I do (which has been an honest 19-20 mpg).
The car is objectively ugly, just like the Evo, and both have cheap *** interiors, noisy suspensions/interiors and go kart ride quality.
Enjoy your riced out econobox. I'd rather have my 8 anyday buddy.
pizowned...
03-05-2006, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sti_eric
(STi and Evo)I find that the only people who talk down about the way the STi and Evo look are car owners who are totally insecure with their car purchase when they see what they could've had with performance car like an STi or Evo.
No Eric, we are'nt jealous. Nor are porsche, s2000,350Z, Bmw,corvette,miata,soltice,ferrari,lamborginni,rx7 , or any other true sportscar enthusiast.
03-05-2006, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Roaddemon
No Eric, we are'nt jealous. Nor are porsche, s2000,350Z, Bmw,corvette,miata,soltice,ferrari,lamborginni,rx7 , or any other true sportscar enthusiast.
03-05-2006, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Nope. Never going to happen.
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
I'm not insecure in the least. That the STi is about 1.3 seconds faster to 60 and faster in the 1/4 mile than the 8 is about your only bragging right. If you drive it to take advantage of these attributes, you'll be getting far worse mpg than I do (which has been an honest 19-20 mpg).
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
The car is objectively ugly, just like the Evo,
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
and both have cheap *** interiors
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
noisy suspensions/interiors and go kart ride quality.
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
Enjoy your riced out econobox. I'd rather have my 8 anyday buddy.
03-05-2006, 01:21 PM
#295
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Originally Posted by sti_eric
First, I own an RX8 and I love it. However, I am a realist when it comes to the car's qualities. The only reason that I appear to "talk down" about it is that I am not some rotary leghumper who thinks that the RX-8 is the greatest car ever built and that no one should ever mention its downsides.
I find that the only people who talk down about the way the STi and Evo look are car owners who are totally insecure with their car purchase when they see what they could've had with performance car like an STi or Evo.
Why does this bother you so much?
03-05-2006, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Roaddemon
The rx8 has about the same EPA ratings18/24 as the Sti 18/23.
03-05-2006, 01:43 PM
#298
Originally Posted by sti_eric
So are you trying to say that the RX-8, when driven easy, has better gas mileage than the STi when driven hard?
Originally Posted by sti_eric
The STi and Evo are aggressive and masculine, while the RX-8 is bulbous and feminine. The RX-8 is a good chick car, I'll give you that.
The STi and Evo scream "I'm just a lowly econobox, and my makers crammed a highly modded 4 banger under my hood, and they didn't even bother to give my interior a reach around!" And when my warranty is up, I'll add the mods I want, but don't need.
The RX-8 is so far better looking that the Imprezzzzza and Lancer, there's no contest.
Originally Posted by sti_eric
Talk about cheap interiors...we've already had to replace both hvac *****, one of the heating vents, and the center console thingy. Haven't replaced anything on the STi yet. No rattles, either. Please list for me what about the interior of the RX-8 is better than the STi. I bet you really don't know anything, just what you've heard on the internet. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
99.9 out of 100 normal people would agree that when it comes to interior refinement, texture quality, and ambience, the 8 is closer to an Infinity, while your car is...well.. what it is.
Exactly.
Originally Posted by sti_eric
While I'm at the track enjoying my car, enjoy sitting at home telling everyone that your RX-8 looks better.
Last edited by RotoRocket; 03-05-2006 at 01:52 PM.
03-05-2006, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sti_eric
I own an RX8 and I love it. However, I am a realist when it comes to the car's qualities. The only reason that I appear to "talk down" about it is that I am not some rotary leghumper who thinks that the RX-8 is the greatest car ever built and that no one should ever mention its downsides.