9291150

Are YOU serious?

RX8_GT

Of course Ike is serious - See in his universe - his 'bashing' is simply stating the facts or THE truth - whereas my describing an EVO or STI as a well-modified car based on a econobox platform is clearly bashing.

Ike

Yeah, show me smartguy. I do it all the time so it should be easy information for you to come up with.

playdoh43

turbo engines are made to make low power NA because they emphasize durability, they use stronger heavier parts that can wistand a lot of boost. vs a non FI engine that emphasize light wieght parts that can rev higher and make as much hp as possible NA at the expense of toughness. its a pointless comparison to compare vs the NA form of a FI engine thats designed to make very little power NA by defualt.

saturn

I dunno if I would get involved with this whole "bashing" thing when you bashed the Evo and STi 7 minutes before making this post. Unprovoked I might add.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/fyi-rotary-displacement-clear-up-84388/#post1268746

Tim Benton

I feel this is wrong..since you could say the same thing for the FD. Flagship car, company image, most people still think of the 7 when they think Mazda, even though the miata has outsold them all. Sounds like they are having problems like the 7, without the price of the car skyrocketing like the FD did in the mid 90's due to exchange rates going nuts. Early blown engines in the auto's, even if blown out of proportion by this forum and the panic mode it went through.

Although it's glad to see that the 8 has sold better than the FD, which sold around 15K over the 3 years we could get them.

Tim
05 RX-8
93 RX-7
91 RX-7
89 RX-7 TII

yeah, I love the rotary RX cars

RX8_GT

Nice list of cars ......

Ike

spieder

Don't forget that Mazda has a new and unique manufacturing technology. They can build either the Miata or the RX-8 in the same factory. They can literally say we need 10k more RX-8's and have the factory start cranking them out in a day or two. When their done, a day or two later they can crank out Miata's again. It's a pretty sweet setup.

Ike

Didn't know that. That certainly makes things look more favorable for the RX-8 even if sales continue to be weak. Thanks for posting something on topic.

Raptor2k

How do you know that?

And what are the chances of a Renesis ending up in a Miata?

doctor_90210

Ike's beloved Broke Back Mountain didn't win the Oscar either.

sti_eric

So, then it's agreed. STi/Evo vs RX-8 comparisons are valid because of the number of people that cross shop them.

Platform does not make a difference. The only thing that makes a difference is the finished product. I would rather have the vehicle that is the superior finished product than the one that starts out better but in the end is a failure.

Ricer math will do you no good here. This is the kind of arguement supplied by riced-out Civic owners. The fact is, the STi has much more USABLE horsepower than the RX-8. For the RX-8 to have any power, you have to keep the RPMs above 7000. For this reason, the STi handily beats out the RX-8 in the driveability category.

I asked you to supply the list of cars that the RX-8 compares FAVORABLY to. The RX-8 is outperformed by all of these and is outhandled by all except the 350Z/G35. The only thing favorable about the RX-8 is that it isn't as much car as any of these, so it is much cheaper. Also, let me get this straight...other 4-door, 4-seat sports cars that are similarly priced (STi/Evo) are not in the same class as the RX-8, but 2-door, 2-seat convertibles that cost up to twice as much are? Get a clue. Oh, and it's Boxster, not Boxer. Boxer is the engine that is in all Subarus and Porsches.

rotary crazy

not really, that system of caculating the rotary displacement was made to make the piston engine competitive in racing( imagine the renesis runing agaist 1.3 litter piston engines ) and because many countrys charge taxes depending on the size of the engine ( in japan the rotary is class as a less than 2.0 litter engine and in other parts of the world its a 2.6) because the rotary breathe twice as much as a piston engine it does not mean the engine its 2.6 litters in fact if you use the same procces use to determin the size of a piston engine in a rotary you get 1.3 litters, for me the way to masure the engine has to be by fisical sice and weight, in this respect the renesis is just a bit smaller then a 2.0 litter piston engine.

Roaddemon

I disagree with all your stated stupidity. And Platform makes a huge difference or we'd all be driving sport eoconoboxes. Porsche would be out of bussiness. niether Subaru or mitsu make a factory sportscar platform. They don't have the resources, technology, engineering and $$$. They borrrow their econobox platform instead. When they make a real sportscar you buy one you can post all you want here. I doubt you'll be able to afford one anyway. Until then there's no comparison. Your just a basher here.

saturn

I thought every RENESIS was built by hand. Can they really crank them out that fast?

Roaddemon

1.3liter=1.3liter. No way around it. How it makes it's power in that 1.3 liter makes no difference. You can't change the size to 2.6 even though it makes that kind of power or more. It's still a 1.3l in size. A 2.6L would not fit inside our cars. That's part of the rx8 formula that makes it such a great sportscar on par with much more expensive sportscars.

DARKMAZ8

amen

Tyblat

iTrader: (1)

I live in Orlando, and I've seen about 10 in my area. I guess the area has something to do with it. I havent seen any commercials for the RX8. Maybe if Mazda publicised it, sales would jump?

Deslock

Obviously you didn't mean that Mazda could build 10k RX8s in a day or two, and I wouldn't be surprised if Mazda could quickly shift production emphasis at its plant from one model to another. However, I'm curious about this new and unique manufacturing technology. Can you give us more information?

Deslock

They are built by hand (or at least they were as of 2 years ago). However, the engine is very easy to assemble compared to a piston engine.

saturn

Look, someone tried to post on topic! What a strange thing to do!

Yeah, the whole no commercial thing seems odd to me as well as many others. I'm not sure if that makes a big change in sales, but it's pretty clear that the 8 isn't known outside the automotive community all that well and commercials would help. Who knows -- maybe Mazda likes the air of mystic.

Deslock

Every car is a compromise and extra cost is not the STI's only disadvantage. I've driven the 2005 STI and it was awesome: silly fast, excellent brakes, excellent grip and handling. However, it wasn't as balanced or responsive as the RX8, it understeered more (but not as much as I expected), its shifter was mediocre, and its ride was much stiffer (to be fair to the STI, I only had 20 minutes behind the wheel and I only took it up to 100 MPH - we did, however, go 130 when I was in the passenger seat).

So based on my experience, the RX8 is more fun and drivable in many ways (though, if I could get the STI for $24k, I probably wouldn't have an RX8 today).

Anyway, as far as "usable horsepower" goes, are you talking competition or everyday driver? Yep, on a track there are situations where you can get bogged down in a car with a narrow power band (and it's common knowledge that the STI will own the RX8 in almost any competition event). But on the street, I think the "useable" power issue is overstated.

First off, for every 3000 pounds worth of vehicle you hardly ever use more than 150 hp (if that) in every day driving. You only need 30-40 hp to maintain highway speed and accelerating around town doesn't require much either. I found that my wife's old Civic 5-speed had no trouble in city traffic while driving more powerful cars was usually just an example of excess. On the highway, if you're driving a high-revver like the ITR, S2k, or RX8, you simply downshift more.

Don't get me wrong... is it fun to step on it and get pushed back in your seat? Sure, and you don't get that in the RX8. And If you don't like needing to shift on the highway, clearly the RX8 is a poor choice. But it's misleading to say that "the STi handily beats out the RX-8 in the driveability category".

As far as favorability goes, are there any other non-FWD cars sold in the USA that have 4 seats while weighing less than 3000 pounds? (the base RX8 6MT is 2880) How about with 4 doors? Or 50:50 with low COG, low yaw moment, and nimble and balanced dynamics? Or a comfortable ride? Or tight steering? Smooth short-throw 6-speed? Responsive throttle? For less than <$25k? (common street price of RX8 6MT is $23k-$24k)

Roaddemon

GOOD ONE

Roaddemon

I thought only the very early models were hand built. I'm pretty sure it's all assembly line now.