I totally agree with you too

 

I couldn't agree less.

It all depends on how you define its class. If you limit its class (and therefore its sales) to "car for sportscar enthousiasts", then you cater to a limited market, many of them of the "I only care about hp and stats" crowd, with which the 8 doesn't do particularly well. The key thing about the 8 is that it's not JUST a sports car, its more practical than that. I contend that there are people who don't go looking for a sports car because they have practical considerations, who might buy an 8 if they knew how well a car could do both. THOSE people don't read car magazines.

People like, oh, me, for instance.

 

Good point nranly... but this still makes the 8 very much an enthusiasts car. If we are talking about gross numbers, something needs to be done to reach the people outside of the R&T magazine world.
I do completely agree with the points you make though, and Ive never really relaized (even though is stupidly obvious) that paper ads essential have infinate ad time. Interesting observation.

 

I think the 8 really stands out as a "Family Mans Sports Car". That to me is its strongest possition of attack on the market.

 

As an economist, I'll tell you that the declining sales reflect several factors including a natural sales reduction over the life cycle of a new car (especially one that was as initally exotic looking and niche oriented as the 8), and a bad rap about the stated power for the car vs the reality of the dyno tests.

But most important has been the dramatically higher current prices of fuel and even more dramatically increased fears about the possibility of future fuel prices combined with many reports of 8s getting 10-13 MPG and Mazda saying FU/deal with it to those poor owners.

You see folks, the cost of MPG is NOT LINEAR. As you get closer to 0 MPG, each mile per gallon lost is more expensive. This dynamic accelerates very rapidly below 20 MPG.

Here's a mathematical illustration: the cost difference between 60 and 30 MPG is the same as 30 MPG and 20 MPG and the same as 20/15 and 15/12 and 12/10. In other words the dollar cost difference per mile driven between 20 MPG and 60 MPG is the same as the cost difference between 15 MPG and 10 MPG.

Why is this? It is because when you are considering cost you should think about it in gallons per mile, rather than miles per gallon, since you are paying for gallons not miles. By flipping the fraction (taking the inverse), you'll see that the difference between 1/10 to 1/12 to 1/15 to 1/20 to 1/30 to 1/60 is exactly the same.

So what does this mean for the 8? Assuming gas at $3/gal (probably a conservative number given the new consensus fears about future prices over the last two years), each one of these break points represents $50 per 1000 miles driven or $5000 per 100K miles.

So if someone fears that the 8 will get 12 MPG instead of 15 or 20 it's a difference of $5000-10000 per 100K miles. And if some gets 10 MPG, add another $5K to that cost. Suddenly it makes sense that the cars are selling at such deep discounts to the original pricing for the car. These discounts would make up for the differences in expectations for fuel consumption costs since the actual MPG seems to be dramatically less than stated by the EPA and Mazda.

All of this assumes that gas will not rise dramatically above $3/gal. If so, and Mazda does not do something to reinstill confidence that the 8 can achieve 20 MPG consistently, you can expect valuations of all 8's, new and used to fall.

20-30 MPG seems to be the sweet spot. Below 20, costs accelerate very rapidly, above 30, they decelerate very slowly. What does that mean? Be wary of any car that gets below 15 MPG (like it or not the 8 has a bad rap for this) and don't pay up for a hybrid that gets 45 MPG instead of it's much cheaper equivalent that gets 35 MPG.

For the sake of the 8 and the rotary, I hope Mazda finds a way to address this issue before it's too late!

 

Magazine advertising is advertising......and Mazda doesn't do it for the RX8. I personally get Car & Driver, Motor Trend and Hotrod mags at home. I have yet to see an ad from Mazda for the RX8. I also get Maxim and Playboy and have never seen an RX8 ad in then either. Where is Mazda advertising the RX8?

 

he was quoting dave chappelle stand-up. pretty sure that was just a joke.

 

id rather see boobies than an rx8 if i got playboy.

for the record, ive seen rx8 2 pages spreads in C and D before...usually in the early pages.

 

Boobies are nice.....but I actually enjoy the articles too.

When was the RX8 advertised in C&D? not recently that's for sure. I've only been a subscriber for about 13 months......so if Mazda advertised in C&D back in 2004 I wouldn't know. If you can, please provide the issue #......I'd like to check out what the ad looked like.

 

gas prices affect all cars though.
the rotary will always by design be difficult to generate the same mileage as a comparable piston engine.

your formula serves true, but to blame sales soley on gas prices rising is ignoring the relative nature of the economy. Even if prices fall, the 8 will still suffer from 'the fear of worse mileage' and "cost more to maintain".

I'd blame sales drops on a bunch of factors, many of which Zoom listed (new cars, factory burning, etc), and hp wars of course and it being niche car before i even thought about gas prices.

 

After reading this thread, I just wanna roll my eyes.

The 8 is a car for the 'particular' customer, not Joe Sixpack. Why? Try these factors:

1. Bold styling. Scares the types who like boring, invisible 'me-too' cars. Believe it or not, that's what the market wants... boring, me-too cars. Eye-poppers are an exception.

2. Rotary Engine. Scares people who are allready scared and ignorant about pistons.. let alone rotors.

3. Gas. This one's known since the mid-70's. No way around it, live with it.

4. Despite the four doors and four seats, it's a sports car. Most people don't want sports cars -- they want safe, cheap, reliable, BORING transportation.

This car will never sell high numbers. It's not meant to. It never was. It took 10 years for the Miata to hit 700,000 copies, and that's the best selling roadster *in history*. The corvette took about 15-20 years to hit 1 million cars.

Of course, none of this matters, because it seems people here think this car should sell 500,000 units per year... it'll never happen. Car's too different, strange, abnormal for that kinda sales.

So, to pay the bills and rake in huge profits, Mazda makes the 2, 3, 6, MPV and others. The 3 in particular is a hot item, it IS selling 200,000 units per year or better (worldwide.)

And lest ye all forget, the original SA/FB Rx-7 (1979-85) sold slowly as well. So did the FC, and of course we all know the FD was a dismal sales failure (and at 46,000 dollars BASE, no wonder...)

 

its a 2 page ad with all the doors open and the usual "a car like no other" type stuff....

i have subscribed for countless years, so i'll try to find it, but if you haven't seen it, probably late 04 early 2005 issue. Ive seen it since i've owned the car a few times and I bought mine summer 04.

 

^ so what your saying is the Mazda can do no better in fuel economy of the rotary nor sales of their RX car than the 70's ??? Wow, no wonder they don't advertise!!!

"The new Mazda RX8.....the same damn car since the 70's"

 

No, that would put it back into a niche car. Lot's of singles and non-family types drive them too, like me. I don't have kids.

 

I really want to see it now!!! I am going to go back through the issues that I have........I don't remember seeing an RX8 ad......but I may have over-looked it. I definitely haven't seen one since I got my 8 in Aug '05.

 

I have kids....but they're not allowd in the 8

What?.....I have the Shinka.....I don't need them puttng their feet on the back of my Light Parchment leather seats. Let them do that in my wifes car

 

I too acknowledged that other factors are contributing to the sales decline.

But my point is that the 8 and all cars with sub-20 MPG (especially those w/sub 15 MPG) will suffer the most if fears of explosive gas costs continue. See SUV sales. This will make this car even more of a luxury item, applicable to those who are still willing to own the car at a higher cost.

And very few owners experience 20+ MPG on this car on a consistent basis from what I've read on this forum. Me personally, I get 15 city and 20 hwy. Too bad 80-100% of my driving is in the city.

Plus with such a wide reported variance, a normal economic buyer will consider the worst case and discount the car's value to reflect 15 MPG even if some are able to get 20 MPG. It doesn't help when consumer reports showed their road test at 13.8 MPG.

 

Bascho.... I think you need to sell your 8 and get an Acura TL...

Also... As a doctor, studies have shown that the hand-free link does not decrease car accidents... (although it may increase the car's coolness factor)...

 

totally agree- just like the '65 stang. they should do more marketing in this direction.

 

Now I really would like to know how you "drive" and when you say "No matter how I drive" to you mean to driver below 2K rpm at all times ?

I really really would like to know.

 

Yeah, it was just a joke. Haha, what a great standup routine that was. Bully for you and your awesome job. My job is to sit around and look important and then post on the RX-8 forum when no one is looking. I'm getting pretty good at it.

I'll bet you 5 e-dollars that more SUVs and other various "gas guzzlers" were sold last year than hybrids -- by a factor of 10 probably. We're Americans. Sure we care about the cost of gas, but we mostly care about blaming everything on someone else. It's what we do. It's how we get out of bed in the morning -- sheer rage and discontentment. People hear a 10 second sound byte, believe it, and then will fight to the death to defend it. We never enter any discussion like we have something to learn -- only something to prove.

If you were right, everyone would buy Civics or hybrids. But people buy gigantic SUVs and don't give a crap about the environment or who they may kill while telling Sally in the backseat to keep her hands off her brother. People who are paying $30k on a car do not care about gas mileage (relatively speaking). They care about performance in all it's facets. Cost is an issue, but I think people are generally more concerned with maintenance costs than gas prices.

Everything I've read and heard from the media and random people I've talked to has lead me to believe that if the RX-8 had more power, it would sell better. This isn't 1994 and this isn't the RX-7. This is right smack in the middle of a horsepower war. Mazda may have bigger fish to fry than just selling a few thousand more units of a particular car, but I still think it's true.

BTW, hiiiiiiiiii biiiiiiiiird....got any smaaaack biiird? i need it!

 

I would think gas mileage would be the last concern of buying a sportscar as much fun to drive as the 8. Most sportscar owners have other cars they use for excessive driving. Lot's of us store our 8's for the winter and only drive them on Sundays to church. My point is I drive my 8 less then my other more economical car. The 8 is for fun. I can always drive it less and my bike more if gas prices climb too high. It's not an issue with me.

 

8 is my daily car. Got it Last June and right now I have like 10700 miles on it (yep, just hit that number last night)

and Gas cost ... sigh. I dont really cared about it anymore. consider the fact that I have to fill it up every 2-3 days. Highest I've ever paid for gas was like a very nice $3.90 per gallon.

Now Im paying around 2.6 , all premium of course.

I just spent so much that I dont really give a crap about gas anymore. now what worries me is that how reliable it really is. I do my oil change every 2-3 K miles and clean my filters every 5K. I even changed my gear and rear diff oil at 5K .... so ...

Maybe its time for another Gear and Rear Diff oil flush .... :O

 

I think you mean more torque is desired by most. I personally like the flat torque curve and high rev engine. It does it so well. Like a sportbike. The 8 also has a good ballance of power and drivability. I don't need whiplash everytime I step on it. It's a fine ride the way it is.

 

Yeah, I don't mean to bash the 8 or put words in everyone's mouth. I'm just saying that with more torque the car would have a broader range of appeal. Right now you see a few minor complaints (tires, flooding, gas mileage, rattling, etc) and one major complaint. If you fix all the minor complaints (not easy to do I'd say), I don't see it making a huge change in sales. You change the one major one, the minor problems will become even less important. It's got the looks and the moves. Now it just needs the get up and go.

I know that more torque is everyone's cup of tea, but I think it would appeal to the masses. Again, not saying this is a good or bad thing, just something I see that is true IMO.