Vizacar

I've read on here that you shouldn't keep the clutch depressed while at a stop light and should put it into neutral instead, usually with no reason why. Since I've been driving a stick for over 20 years and keeping the clutch depressed while at a stop light with no ill effects, I went searching for the answer.

I could only find 3 reasons why you should keep it in neutral instead:
1) Big rigs have a tendancy to overheat the clutch if depressed too long
2) Early British sportscars of the 50s & 60s used carbon throwout bearings which wore out quicker.
3) If the clutch is depressed and you get rear ended while waiting at the stop light you have a tendancy to pop the clutch and smash into the car in front.

Is there a technical reason why you shouldn't keep the clutch depressed while stopped? Links would be appreaciated.

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

you'd rather hold your foot down to the floor for 2 minutes waiting for a light to change rather than just put the car into neutral?

rx8wannahave

Yeah, what he said^...lol

I thought about this also, if the wait is short then I'll keep the clutch pressed down (5 sec wait) but if I'm stopped at a red light (> 5 sec) then I'll put the car into neutral.

Vizacar

That's beside the point but thanks for your input. Anyone have a TECHNICAL reason? :p

tuj

Most clutch wear occurs when the clutch is engaging or disengaging, not when it is completely engaged or disengaged. Its possible this could put some wear on the throw-out bearing. Personally, I just find it annoying to have to keep my foot down that long, but on a motorcycle, I tend to hold the clutch and not shift to neutral.

I wouldn't be too concerned, as long as you are completely depressing the clutch.

Vizacar

Talked to a person at work who is intimately familiar with transmissions and he said that the hydraulics and pressure plate are under pressure which could lead to premature failure. It is not really a concern on todays cars but was a great concern with older models. Still a good practice in his opinion to put it in neutral.

Funny thing is our brakes and clutch hydraulics are combo so the system is under pressure anyway while the brakes are depressed at the light. Although he did mention the slave cylinder in the transmission. Do we have one?

pcimino

There's some wear on the throwout bearing if the pedal is depressed.
My wife's car got rear ended by someone at a light who's foot slipped of the clutch.

Practice the good habit of putting it in neutral and keeping your foot off the pedal and on the brake. After a week or two it'll be second nature and you can stop thinking about it.

KYLiquid

holding it down will put more stress on the bearings and such. it wont damage the clutch or the trany, but it will put more stress on the parts of the clutch system.....

the clutch system/assembly is only made to engage/disengage the clutch in short bursts. not hold that load.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I've been told that holding the clutch in causes the springs/fingers on the pressure plate to loose tension over time. And premature throwout bearing failure.

wisconsinben

gracias, all. this is some interesting information. i too have been driving manual transmissions since the age of 16 and had never heard anything about this. overall, sounds like a good practice...time to change some old habbits.

Vizacar

That is what I was told too.

I called 2 transmission repair shops and they said the same thing. With todays materials and machining there is no technical reason to do it, although your clutch might not feel as stiff after 50,000 miles or so if you use it a lot, especially keeping it under load while sitting, as the pressure plate will lose tension. They didn't think the throwout bearing was a concern anymore.

Anyway, since I became concerned about this I've noticed I'm thinking about it while at the stop lights and putting it in neutral. In a couple of weeks, it'll be second nature as mentioned above. It'll take that long to break my 20 year habit though.

Thanks everyone.

Frostee

now, just out curiousity, if youre sitting at a light, and you have your foot on the clutch, and your foot slips off the clutch, and your car jumps forward and you hit the person in front of you, doesnt that tell yousomething else? that maybe, just maybe, youre stopping a bit too close to the person in front?

Y&Y

Of course not! I mean you gotta be able to read all those nifty little messages on the bumper stickers. :p

Frostee

my bad, i fergot about those

Astral

Yeah, and why aren't you holding down the brake pedal, so that even if you slip your foot off the clutch, you don't actualy move all that much?

I have accidentally dropped the clutch when turning off my car the other day (I forgot to put it in neutral), lurching forward an inch and stalling the car. Because I always press the brake when stopped (habit from the days of driving an auto tranny).

Frostee

not just that, but when i stop the car, i can usually see their tires, if not some road even. that lets me know im close enough but not too close. even if i were to fall off the clutch without being on the brake, the lurch would only be about 6 inches (guessing here) and there would still be tons of room between me and the car in front. if i were 6 or closer, then i would hit the car in front, but that would also mean i was way too close to them.

i dunno, maybe its just me :o

Krankor

Delightful thread. Got some nice technical confirmation that all the "oooo, don't do it types!" are overdoing it. I shall continue to clutch at lights. With all the "oooo, you'll wear out your bearings!" posts I've seen on this site, not ONE has ever sited an ACTUAL INCIDENT of someone having a significant problem with this. Whereas, I, like Vizacar, have always done it, racked up lots of miles on cars, and never had a single problem. And never known anyone who had a single problem. It makes COMPLETE sense to me now that once-upon-a-time this was a real issue, and now it perpetuates as an old wives tale.

Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT

Aseras

If i'm going to stop I don;t even use the clutch, I just pull it out of gear as I'm about to brake and slow down... unless I know it's going to be a while ( like rolling up to a long redlight ) and then I'll just let the engine brake and when it goets to 5-10 mpg I'll pull it out of gear...

280RX-8

My dad never made a big deal about it, he just said it was a little safer in case I slipped or somebody rear-ended the Hell out of me.He also mentioned the pressure plate, but this was years ago, and the car was a 91'.
Now as for pulling up too close to the car in front of you...in driving school and defensive driving they told us to make sure we had enough room to go around the car in front of us in case of trouble...seems a good idea in these road-rage/carjacking happy days.

Y&Y

When I first got my 97 honda crappy (civic), my salesman told me not to leave my foot on the clutch. I asked why and he said "cuz it'll wear it out". But the dude was old and was probably thinking of the cars of old. But who knows. Can anyone confirm, when leaving your foot on the clutch, isn't a problem anymore? I mean starting what year has most car manufacturers have improved this aspect of the tranny.

Astral

My rule of thumb is that when the car is in neutral, the clutch is out. I sit at stop lights TYPICALLY in neutral, except if I feel that I'm about to go or if the stop light is short.

So it's like, I have a "neutral/relaxed" position, and "I'm about to go/in gear/clutch disengaged" position.

Sure, maybe the throw-out bearing may not really ever wear out, but why put extra wear on it?

I don't like sitting at a long light with the clutch disengaged, too much effort to keep holding it down. It also prevents me from being tempted to creep during long lights, saving clutch some.

But that's just me.

glassetcher

Astral, what you said! I'm from the old school. When I learned to drive a stick over 30 years ago I learned that that if the clutch wasn't actually doing something, it should be disengaged. I remember a number of years ago, when a friend was riding with me in the Mach I, that he thought he "never saw someone get off the clutch as fast" as I do. Unless I think I am going to move in the next few seconds, or if I am on an upgrade and want to temporarily keep the car cycling forward (for an imminent takeoff when the light changes) rather than come to a complete stop in neutral and have to restart in 1st the clutch is disengaged. I have over 150K on the Mach I clutch and have never replaced it. I'll stick with my technique

Zoom, Zoom!

Astral

glassetcher: I think we used the term "disengaged" differently, but we agreed on the same thing. I meant "disengaged" as in "the clutch is not connected to the transmission" (as in my foot is down on the pedal).

Heh, I'm "new school" (been driving stick.. uhh.. 1.5 months?) but I've been trying to learn the different techniques.

When rolling up to a stop light, slowing down pretty quickly, I know people who clutch in, stick the car in neutral, clutch out and brake to a stop while in neutral and the clutch pedal not depressed (=out, =engaged, whatever...). However, I like to push in the clutch and row through the gears as I slow down (quickly shift 4-3-2, then neutral), so that if I have to get going, I can just blip the throttle, clutch out (engage it) and get going without having to choose the right gear (because I'm already in the right gear for the speed). Only when I brake to less than 10mph, I stick it in neutral and then stop depressing the clutch pedal.

So I guess that amounts to a longer time spend with the clutch depressed than just sticking it into neutral, while slowing down, but, hey, it's not all that much more time (just 5-10 seconds slowing down).

staticlag

If you rest your foot on the clutch while you are driving, yes you will wear the clutch out. When your foot is not completely depressing the clutch, it should not be touching the pedal at all.

tacho9k

There really isn't an accurate, proven reason why you shouldn't...but I am Mr. Paranoid, therefore when coming to a stoplight I always throw it in neutral after the last downshift.

Its easier burn up the clutch after long extensive periods of it being depressed, especially in the hot summer heat of a western climate like Nevada, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, etc.