Wrong, I disproved that theory to my determent and embarrassment twice already. I'll learn eventually.

 

good point 6speed8

 

I second that, good post.

 

Put it this way...
For the city driving you mentioned, the 8 will promptly overtake the car in front of you from a stop before you realize it.

I love driving the 8 around the city because you can leave it in 3rd and really accelerate around other cars, and (more nice-ities) since you are in 3rd at upper revs it will compression brake when you let up the gas.

On the highway I hardly ever take it out of 6th. You can pull into the left lane to pass and run from 70 to 90 before you know it.

 

Before taking possession of my RX-8, one aspect I was concerned with had to do with torque.

I live in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountain Range, and I have a choice of a flat, very curvy road, or a steep hilly route to my workplace, which is 40 miles one-way.

In my previous ride, a 2000 Nissan Frontier Truck w/ 5sp manual tranny, I would have to downshift into 4th to maintain my speed while climbing the hilly route.

I was certain, the RX-8 with a 6th gear, that I would have to do the same thing. Once again, my RX-8 impressed me! No gear changes necessary to maintain speed.

However, while that route used to be my preferred, as it used to be the faster route, the RX-8 has now made the curvy route the fastest :D

 

Well I drive an unmodified 96 Pontiac Sunfire GT (a 44,000 mile engine got put in my car at 68,000 - first one went BOOM!) and I get almost every light, lane change, etc. I want because most drivers suck. For the regular driving competition (the one against the moron drivers between you and open road) the RX-8 is going to kick ***.

Sure you'll find someone with a car that can beat the RX-8, but at the power and speeds that takes most drivers will not have the ***** to really find out (assuming you do). A simple mistake or slow response can make a difference of at least half second.

I'm more concerned with winning the day-to-day competition with other traffic and be able to enjoy a fine drive (whether around town, out in the country, or on vacation) than in drag strip, closed course, or rally racing. If that was where my cajones got off I'd be driving me one of them rocket cars.

When you want the RX-8 to you can go 0-80 in 'fast enough to be illegal'. At least if the cop missed his morning donut and is suffering from low blood sugar. Where the Z really out performs the RX-8 is from that point forward. Up till there they are even enough that the driver and environent will make a difference. I think a lot of Z drivers will suffer from the timidness displayed by a lot of corvette owners who can (but never do) kick the Z and the RX-8 to the curb.

The Z is easier to win in than the RX-8, though. Just push the pedal and shift. Not much to it except with that 1+ G-force 1st gear you might want to start lifting weights. The RX-8 will require a little more practice and a little more attention to the details. And a mistake will cost you more.

In a twisty situation the winner will probably be settled either by who got in front first or just how much straight away the Z has to use to its advantage. Curvy enough and I bet the RX-8 pulls away from the Z.

Put a real road in the situation and the tenser and more reactive (at least in terms of speed) Z will want to skip off of bumps and road imperfections more than the RX-8. Again the RX-8 at least closes the gap if not actually pulling into the lead.

Against all mortal vehicles it won't matter if you wind it up or not. The high powered mini-van might actually leap from the line first, but 2-2.5 seconds later it is behind you (I actually had a minivan take off on me at a light while I was doodling with the radio on my last test drive - I still took his lane before the next light a few hundred yards down the road).

I have the feeling that the RX-8 is more than likely a lot more tunable to a persons own driving ability (in that how you drive it is how it responds) over a wider latitude than a Z. My Golf driving mother, bless her heart, would probably freak out in trying to drive a Z between the power and lesser visibility. I'm not exactly sure what would happen in the RX-8 (you have to know my mom and, no, she won't be driving it, dad on the otherhand ...), but I think she would find it surprisingly easy to drive.

The world (and the Japanese) is enrichened by the existence of both. I enjoyed all 4 test drives in the Z. Just not as much as I enjoyed the 5 in the RX-8. But it was close. Oh so close.

milo

P.S. To be honest the bad MPG stories are still freaking me out a bit. Until I order (and maybe even after then) I could always change my mind and get a Z. Maybe the other shoe is about to drop in the near future on the MPG issue much as the HP thing did.

 

I don't think it's that people are snobs. I notice that this forum has a very wide level of owner's 'sports car' experience. There are those that seem like this is their very first 'sports' car, and probably those where this car could maybe be their daily driven bad weather/beater car. Just like some people may think that a $30k car is very expensive, but some who wouldn't ever own anything less than $50k.

I see a difference when I read, for example, an RX7 board and this board. It is clear that the RX8 is more 'mainstream' and attracts wider variety of owners whereas the RX7 boards seem more of a 'hard core' enthusiast crowd. So fast or whatever are relative terms, but when writing most everyone always assumes that their audience is just like them.

 

The problem I have is that it is hard for me to feel like most cars are "fast", because I compare them to my modded 93 Rx7. But the 8 is very quick compared to most vehicles on the road. Speed is relative as mentioned by you guys, but I like that the 8 feels quick. Maybe it is the high revving or the quick shifting, I don't know. But this car is a kick to drive, and a lot more forgiving than my 7.

 

Actually on my Z forums, lots of people run there cars at the track and one just happen to menction that the last outing he was at the person that was driving the RX-8 "spent most of the day waving other cars to pass" and all the cars were in the same class. Also there was an all out track test of somewhere around 8 Japanese cars and the RX-8 came in 7th place besting only the Miata by a few tenths of a second. A few of the other cars in that test were the G35 coupe, Honda S2000, 350Z and Subaru WRX. FYI, the S2000 won, the 350z was the runner up.

Also FYI: The cornering grip diffrence between a 350z and a RX8 is only .02-.03 depending on the magazine you read. That diffrence is almost undetectable and will deffinatly not make up the power difference.

Not sure where you came up with all these imaginary random thoughts, I doubt you have driven both cars so extensive that you can make these comments.

 

Most tracks aren't the type of curvy I'm talking about. Not many tracks have no straight strip where, for sure, the Z is going to win. After all tracks are generally built to open up the extremes of a car. And, if talking about track driving, I have no experience driving either a Z or a RX-8 on a track, your right. However...

I was talking mostly about real roads and real drivers not tracks and expert drivers in my post. I've driven both enough to have my opinion on how most drivers will do in them on real roads. I'm not talking about simple hauling ***.

I don't drive tracks and I don't face expert drivers.

I know in either car I would win against most other drivers in the other car (I do that now in a Sunfire GT). I know that while both have excellent brakes the RX-8's lightness means it stops way shorter. I know I can design a course that the RX-8 would win handily based on the smaller turning radius, the shorter stopping power, the slight extra stick in a curve, and the visibility advantage on roads where hazards do come at you (something the track negates).

Take it or leave it that's my opinion and I would be happy with either car.

milo

 

the rx-8 has such a smooth power band it can be deceiving.....................but I think one guy on here made a comparison to the rsx-s...........not even close..........the 8 is faster...........I took a 350z out twice for a ride, ad it was not that much quicker, but did have more torque............I have owned a 200prelude, 2003 1.8t Jetta now.........BMW 325i........88 Mustang 5.0................88 rx-7......and the 8 is faster than all, even the Mustang............

 

Enough said right there....

The 8 car test were Pros, the other track info (about the RX8 waving people by all day) was directly from an everyday forum member.

Also you seem to just make blind assumptions with NO basis of facts, for example you menction the RX8's braking is better because its light... Do you know there is more to stopping becides weight? Like brake design and size? The RX8 vs 350Z stop in the same distance (1 magazine had the RX8 by 2 feet less)from 70-0 (standard test). Which basically means they are equal.

Not sure where you come up with all this nonsense, all these opinions from somebody that drives a sunfire. Have you driven either car? Have you ever driven a sports car?

 

Damn, harsh.

 

And enough said by you since I never said I was talking about the track experience. Real roads. Real drivers. The cars are close enough that either can win. That is enough said.

Not sure where you come from questioning my OPINION especially when I have laid out exactly in what conditions I'm talking about and where I have gained the insights.

I make no blind assumptions. I gave opinion based on my experience with each car and data from a lot of sources.

Road and Track's tests give a 60-0 stop of 119' and 80-0 stop of 217' for the Z. The RX-8 scored 114' and 202'. 80-0, 15' difference, on some courses that is significant.

I only drive a Sunfire as my car now because I was cheap last time. I have driven the Z 4 times. The RX-8 5 times. I've driven (not owned) Porsches, Camaros, Mustangs, a Conquest TSI, and a few hop-uped 70's muscle cars. My Probe GT, while not a true sports car, was real performer, especially on the curves.

Why don't you turn down the condescending tone you p****! My opinion is informed, but still only opinion. Chill out you big weenie!

milo

 

Close enough in handling and braking.. But there is also 1 more small tidbit. POWER! And about 60HP and 130TQ difference! The RX8 is putting out about 220-225HP and 140 at the crank vs 287HP and 274TQ.

 

Is there any thread you could visit that you don't turn into an RX8 v's 350Z horsepower pissing contest???

 

Let's just agree that BOTH the RX-8 and 350Z are awesome sports cars. I know I'd be very happy with either. I chose the RX-8 for the practicality of the back seat, styling, and smooth power. Others want the extra power & torque of the Z along with it's unique styling. That's fine....but after all, this is an RX-8 forum, not a 350Z forum, so expect folks to be biased.

 

Amen, well said o_town_racer

 

Which is exactly why I said a curvy course - and just to clarify a mean a really tight and twisty course. Why I 'conditioned' my statement with the noting of the need for a course with not enough straight away to let the Z use its advantage.

I think you missed some of the nuance of my earlier statements. I know at a drag strip, the oval, or any normal closed course the Z is going to win with drivers whose skills are all about the same. But limit the lanes, thrown in civilian 2-way traffic, traffic signals, cops, your life on the line and not some pro driver, green lights that are somewhat unpredictable, real pavment, and a wider variety of driver skill level and human reaction time and tell me its a done deal on who ends up back at the Quickie Mart first. In those conditions the driver is even more important than car anyway.

Since I quoted one Car & Track stat here is another interesting thing their data shows. Obviously the RX-8 driver has to be committed and wind the car up to achieve these numbers while the Z driver can pretty much just mash the pedal. Both should turn off anything that gives the computer control - DSC, et al.

The 350Z
0mph to...
...30mph 2.1sec
...40mph 3.3sec
...50mph 4.4sec
...60mph 5.6sec
...70mph 7.6sec

1/4 mile 14.3 @ 100.2mph.

The Rx-8
0mph to...
...30mph 2.1sec
...40mph 3.2sec
...50mph 4.5sec
...60mph 5.9sec
...70mph 8.0sec

1/4 mile 14.5 @ 95.6mph.

So early on the RX-8 can keep up (even beat up to 40mph) and then it falls off as the Z pulls away. But like I have said before it is easier to pull it off in the Z. You have to make the RX-8 perform for power. Otherwise it is quite tame.

0.4sec up to 70mph and 0.2sec at the 1/4 mile. How variable is human reaction to a red light turning green?

BTW, the Corvette gets 1/4 mile in 13.4 @ 101.1mph. Wish their owners drove them that way.

milo

 

Milo,

BTW, the Corvette gets 1/4 mile in 13.4 @ 101.1mph. Wish their owners drove them that way.

I know I'm not the best drag racer, so my RT and launches aren't always the best, but I've gone mid 13's at around 110 mph (after market intake, exhaust, and re-programmed ECU). I drive it like that when I can ;-)

 

Have you been under a rock for the last 2 months? The RX8 is hitting low 15's around 92MPH (and thats gonna be the norm no matter what excuses people come up with). 95% of 350z's are running between 14.0-14.3@100-101 (EVEN THE AUTOS). The one in the mag was pre-preduction before the ECU tweaks, you can almost call it a diffrent car.

So in reality with PRODUCTION RX8's, we are comparing a low 15 second car to a low 14 second car.. If you people still think the RX8's are really producing the numbers you quoted from C&D, its time to wake up to reality.

The RX8's would have no problem making those numbers IF it HAD the avertised power 250 (should be around 205-210 to the wheels) but it doesn't, its getting around 180 to the wheels and the 1/4 numbers are exactly what you would expect from that kind of power, low 15's. And if you believe the BS about the RX8 and dynos, I got a bridge I wanna sell you..

The RX8 will run consistant low 15's with occasional visits to the high 14's.. Thats the truth and if you don't wanna believe it, I feel bad for you. I seen it with my own eyes and also drove a friend's friend's RX8, it was quick, felt almost exactly as fast like my buddy's modded celica GTS (which runs 15.1-15.3@94) but much smoother.

Yes they are both nice cars, I am just stating that you mag racers have a lot to learn. Mag times are used as a guide, real numbers are what matters. Expecially when you are trying to compare to a pre-production RX8 that more then likly HAD the entire 250HP.

 

Blue 350Z: The Z, indeed, performs better than the 8. No question about that. The only down side that I see in the Z is the absence of the rear seating. Sometimes people do need something a bit more practical (such as taking your fellow colleagues out to lunch).

Back to the original question. Is the 8 slow?

Yes or no IMO.

The 6MT 8 is much slower than the C4S my colleague has. It is on par with the 330 (without the sport package) in the twisties. (None of my colleagues have the new accord coupe w/6MT so I cannot tell.)

It is, however, faster than any of the sporty coupes out there with an automatic. Also, the 8 is FAST in the eyes of my insurance company.

Being said that I believe the (6MT) 8 is a good replacement for the Solara. In fact I tested the V6 SLE when it first came out and settled for the Maxima because of the poor suspension tuning and lackluster acceleration for a sporty coupe. If you are looking for an auto, you may want to look at the new Solara V6.

And yes, the 8 is faster than my minivan and my P5.

 

It always amuses me how people abuse numbers to further their own point.

You guys don't seem to understand racing at all.

Track days are not racing, and if you're racing during a track day, you're being extremely irresponsible. Most people think they're above-average drivers- Especially those who go to the track and buzz around near other average drivers. You can talk about heel toe, torque steer, etc all day long, just like the kids out their in their 'modified civics'. When it really comes right down to it, most of you have no idea what 'fast' is, and that's just the truth.

Autocross is not racing, either. It's an interesting competition, and a great way to improve your driving, but if you're really racing at an autocross, someone is likely to get hurt.

Drag racing isn't really 'racing', but it is a sport. However, drag-racing a brand new, $30k car, stock, is an absolute travesty, and really pathetic.

Maybe you're just trying to figure out what your car can do the next time you need to accelerate from a dead stop down a perfectly straight quarter mile of road.. (Considered getting a job as a police officer?) but you shouldn't be proud of, or put much stock in, the numbers produced.

Now I really hope there is nobody out there actually RACING a brand new RX-8 or 350Z, stock.. that would be very silly.

Almost EVERYONE thinks of themselves as an above-average driver. Most people who have done a track day or two, maybe put in some time doing auto-X, done a few tuesday-night drags think they're very good drivers.. But I gurantee you that if you could take any car ever built, go to your local track, and run against a real racer in a Neon or a Miata, or even a pickup or crown vic, you'll get your *** handed to you.

With such a disparity in driver skill, why do people bother even comparing their cars? Drive what makes you happy, and let others drive what makes them happy. Don't delude yourself by thinking that 5hp or .02g or .01 sec is going to make the difference-- The only difference will be between slow and slower. If you decide to take up racing to improve your skill, you'll find that you don't even care to brag or bicker anymore, because you'll know you're fast.

-Kyśź

 

The 350Z SHOULD be faster, it has 50 hp more and over 100 lb ft of torque. The S2000 with 240 hp would give it a run for it's money, so it seems to me that yes the 350Z is fast, but not as fast as it should be. Once again someone comparing acceleration to the RX-8, so what? Who cares? If i wanted to go fast in a straight line and carrying people wasn't an issue, I'd get a top fuel dragster! There is SO much more to a car than acceleration, and for those that don't understand that, I say, perhaps someday you will.

 

Its not about how fast which car is, its about clearing up the facts of how fast what cars are. Just clearing the air to the people who still think the rx8 is running under 6 second 0-60's and low 14 1/4's.

And I don't know exactly where the 350z should be faster comment came from. I think a 13.9-14.1@101mph is pretty damn good for a N/A 3.5 V6 in a 3200lb car. And after the winter I am getting a True Dual Exhaust and pulleys ($700) and i'll be running 13.6-13.7@103ish. Plenty fast... All with getting 30+MPG on the highway.

If I wanted only speed and nothing else mattered like styling and quality, I would be sitting in a STI or a Cobra right now.