wakeech

yes, how about less bickering, and listening to the people that HAVE DRIVEN the car, eh??

Spoonie

Like Car and Driver?

zoom44

no like Dan(rotarynews.com) ! who is one of the few people who have driven(at laguna seca) it that we can actually talk to.

Spoonie

I'm looking for unbaised opinions. Not to say that Dan is biased. But the name "rotarynews.com" speaks for itself.

zoom44

so dan were you able to feel it when it kicked in @7000 rpm like the vtec kicking in on the s2000?

chenpin

Um, you were saying something about openmindedness....:p

rotarynews.com

1. Acceleration in linear. It just keeps on going up until rev-limit. It keeps going and going, with no noticable dip until just around 9000rpm.

2. It is similar to a 2nd gen RX-7... on blow. The RX-8 is a delight if you've ever ownen or driven (and liked) a non-turbo RX-7, of any generation. We noticed no transitions on normal driving. It was sweet and smooth all the way up the rev range.

3. Cruising, below 3500 rpm, it takes a while for it to get into the sweet spot.. about 4500 on up.

wakeech

*blip*
*shift*
*smile* :D

rotarynews.com

Yes. "row the gear box"

I suppose that is another thing about driving the car, the gear box feels nothing like any previous RX-7.

It is very refined.
The gates are defined,
your shifts go quickly inline.


My 2nd had a short shifter in it, as well as my current 3rd gen. They are n-o-t-c-h-y. Not so with the 8.

The clutch was not heavy, in fact I don't even remember using it (a sign that it wasn't a problem)

ggreen29

Let's get full disclosure on this from the C&D mag itself (not the website):

Road Course laptime:

Mustang.....1:19.83/51.9mph
G35...........1:20.51/51.4
RX-8..........1:20.61/51.4

The difference is less than a second, or .98% slower. (Yes, that's less than 1%)

Other important items to sports car fans:

300 ft skidpad:

Mustang .85g
G35 .86g
RX-8 .91g (7% better)

emergency lane change maneuver:

Mustang.....66.9mph
G35..........70.6
RX-8.........72.4 (8% faster)

This slightly off center info is provided because the people at Mazda believe that driving around obstacles is more important than accelerating really fast toward them without shifting gears...or so it appears.

neit_jnf

Well, I've owned two N/A RX-7's one '84 with a slightly modified 12A engine and one '86 GXL with a stock 13B engine. Those are the fastest cars I've ever driven and those are the cars that'll remain in my memory forever. So I'm absolutely positive that I'll be more than satisfied with the RX-8's performance. Just fyi I lost the first gen in a crash (totalled but it wasn't my fault) and the second one just caught on fire by itself.

zoom44

and as many people wiser than me have pointed out, that could be made up with tires. it is well known that the oem tires on the g35c are better than on the 350z, so they are probably(i'm not a tire man) better than the RE040s on the rx-8.

thanks ggreen29 for the full story.

Gord96BRG

Excellent points - and they apply equally well, if not more so, to Spoonie and the other lack-of-torque proclaimers (for want of a better word than 'trolls').

Pleeeeze people, the car is not even out yet, no one has driven a production vehicle. and we are already saying it desperately needs improvement? Claiming a car that's not even out as needing improvement is both unrealistic and ignorant. Just how was this lack of torque determined? By the fact that is's less than one second slower on a road course than a car with nearly 50% more horsepower??!!

none of you here can claim you are 100% sure you will not own a RX8 - except, it seems, Spoonie. There are no RX8 owners on this forum at the moment, only car enthusiasts who are driving anything but the RX8. If someone makes comments about the lack of torque, just tell them "So what? It's still an awesome car." Of course, since they haven't even driven the vehicle that was declared the winner in the comparison test, just how on earth can they be so absolutely certain that the torque will be insufficient? It's completely ludicrous to make such absolute determinations without having driven the vehicle. There are plenty of people with an open mind who have refundable deposits on the RX-8 and who will drive it themselves to see if the torque is adequate by personal experience. Not our Spoonie - he knows already.

Spoonie, expand your horizons - consider the comparison test of the RX-8 and Nissan 350Z in the March 2003 issue of CAR (one of the leading British automotive magazines. Here's a couple of direct quotes for the debate:
So who's right - Car and Driver or CAR? Oh dear, Spoonie's gospel (which he selectively chooses, rigorously ignoring the sum of the verse deciding that the RX-8 is the best car of the three) has been challenged. Is it lacking torque or does it have good low-down torque? Not willing to actually experience the car and decide for himself, Spoonie is now in a philosophical conundrum that will have him doing about-faces until he spins into a black hole.

Regards,
Gordon

Maximus

Don,

Can you please post some links to such threads ???

Maximus

Hi Spoonie,

One suggestion for you...i mean seriously: please wait until you 'actually' test drive the RX-8 to see if it keeps up with traffic or not.

I currently drive a family sedan with "ONLY" 130 lb-ft torque and I have absolutely no problem keeping up with traffic. Its an automatic transmission and I dont even rev it hard to pass most of the traffic...just 3k-4k rpm max.

DonG35Miata

Well, the most disturbed BMW owner on their went by the name "UnleasHell". When the G35 was beating the 330i in the R&T and MT comparisons he felt the need to visit the board and bash the G35. I kept refuting him and he sent me a private message- the ****s are my edits, here's a taste:

Unleashell's PM to Don

Just do a search there under his username and you'l see more of him. He's the most whacked of them by far but the other guys felt a constant need to visit the board and defend their BMWs.

Let's be thankful Spoonie is the worst we have here!

DonG35Miata

Well, the most disturbed BMW owner on there went by the name "UnleasHell". When the G35 was beating the 330i in the R&T and MT comparisons he felt the need to visit the board and bash the G35. I kept refuting him and he sent me a private message- the ****s are my edits, here's a taste:

Unleashell's PM to Don

Just do a search there under his username and you'l see more of him. He's the most whacked of them by far but the other guys felt a constant need to visit the board and defend their BMWs.

Let's be thankful Spoonie is the worst we have here!

DonG35Miata

PS Spoonie, no offense, I like your posts!

AbusiveWombat

This was a great reply. Look everyone here need to be a little more objective and learn to accept other peoples opinion of this car. Every car will have it's faults...and some people may consider some things faults that you might disagree with...hey who cares.

You may love the high reving nature while others may not. I learned from driving my Prelude that I never wanted a low torque car again. Notice I didn't say "not a high reving". I loved the VTEC kick but I hated the lack of torque. I wanted a sports car that could accelerate faster than the Accord at any RPM. I liked the way that a 6 or 8 has power on tap at any moment.

And those that say it will be made up in gearing...no way. The Integra GSR and Integra Type R have different gearing and different engines (25hp advantage to TypeR) and it adds up to 0.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile.

For those that don't understand what the difference will feel like(big torque vs. little torque)...drive the G35 back to back with the RX8 when it comes out. Both have nearly the same acceleration. But totally different ways of getting it.

wakeech

please don't be obtuse... you cannot take a specific case (such as this) and apply it widely. to properly assess the RX-8's gearing next to the G35's gearing, you need to take the AT THE WHEEL drive ratio (gearing advantage), combining that with their masses, the shift points at what speeds through acceleration (it'll help a car by a few tenths if it doesn't have to shift one more time to get to a certain speed)... because you haven't done this, and others (Buger) have, you cannot say this is fact.

try this on for size
again, i will restate one of my seemingly unending requests that we all try using the search feature to really see what's been said.

thank you.

Quick_lude

I don't have specific data to quote but I've seen Type-R's do anywhere from 14.5 to 14.9 in the 1/4.. while the GSR is about 15.5 and up.. so it's a little more than .5 sec difference.. regardless..
I can't speak for the Rx-8 since I haven't driven it.. interestingly the Prelude has a similar amount of torque, 156 with about 120 at wheel from 2000rpm and up.. and it weighs 3000lbs. Personally speaking the only time I wish I had more torque is with 4 people in the car. Then the car does "feel" slower and I need to rev more.. but for everyday acceleration shifting at 4K rpm is more than enough.. 7500rpm redline. I would definitely wait for any reviews after a personal testdrive.. all these threads how it needs more torque are moot really..

Spoonie

Thanks. I feel the love.

I really don't want to **** anyone off. Some folks in an earlier thread wanted to know why I even hang out here. May I remind everyone that this thread started out with someone asking how the RX-8 performed in relation to its competition (namely 5-60 times). All I did was answer the question by quoting what was written by people who actually driven the car and recorded the results. If that upsets people, then I guess they have other issues to deal with. I'll admit, I didn't mention that the RX-8 won the competition. But does that really change anything?

takahashi

From a guy with linear delievery FF car:

I have a DC2 and I like to rev my car... literally everyday of my driving and hell yeah it is fun.

Peak power can be fun if you know how to use it. It makes the car goes very wild and understeer in the corner of a FF DC2. Which is good as the stock car set up so you feel like loosing back when you go into a corner. So heel tole drop a gear and cut into corner sharply and early... release the clutch and pwer down to slide out - just have enough grunt then - That is why S2K and RX8 will be so much fun for a FR. Then my drive will be perfect.

Bottom line: That bitch is born to be beaten - then hell yeah beat the hell out of it. :p

Btw...
S2K is quoted 0-100kmh for 6.7 sec... how can it be faster than RX8 - if quoted as around 6 sec???

If RX-8 is around 7 sec then why don't I mod my DC2

wakeech

... ahahaha... *rolleyes* look who's talking??

BlueAdept

There have been many "Torque" threads, but the main thing I "got" from them... is that looking at the numbers and saying that "this car has less than this one" simply doesn't work with cars like the RX-8...

If you're comparing the S2000, then mabe... but with somthing like the G35 there are other factors.

Torque needs to be measured at the wheels... (assuming they are the same size)... and so if you want to get a real measure for comparison then you've gotta take the gear ratio's into account, and perhaps weight...

Also, isn't it a good thing that the car doesn't feel as fast as it really is... doesn't that mean that it's more refined and has nice linear power delivery?... Isn't that how Mazda is positioning it in markets other than the pure sportscar?? For this car to be a success (and hence for there to be more rotary models, perhaps another 7 in future) this car has to sell to people other than those dedicated to a performance car.

Sure I want the car to be quick, but I'm sure we can wait until WE can drive the car to make a judgement for ourselves...