Why 4 Door!?
02-01-2008 | 01:51 AM
#1
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Why 4 Door!?
Just finished watching a 3 year old Japanese tv documentary called "project x" about the rx8...
...and found out
FORD was the one responsible for the rx8 to be a 4 door sedan!!!(which mazda ingeniousely pulled it off as a 2+2 suicide door coupe without much loss in performance)
But it was all in exchange for getting the grant from Ford to revive the rotary heritage, which ended in 2001?.
I did a search before I posted this so if someone already covered this, then god flame me!
(found 2 posts about the same program)
Wish it was in english though, it explains the history, people, technology, and all the sweat and blood that went in the creating the rx8, which "almost" brought tear in my eyes
whatever happened to that guy from yesterday with his new GT Stang? he would of appreciated the 8 more if he saw it and understud everyword
Rotary rules!!
...and found out
FORD was the one responsible for the rx8 to be a 4 door sedan!!!(which mazda ingeniousely pulled it off as a 2+2 suicide door coupe without much loss in performance) But it was all in exchange for getting the grant from Ford to revive the rotary heritage, which ended in 2001?.
I did a search before I posted this so if someone already covered this, then god flame me!
(found 2 posts about the same program)Wish it was in english though, it explains the history, people, technology, and all the sweat and blood that went in the creating the rx8, which "almost" brought tear in my eyes
whatever happened to that guy from yesterday with his new GT Stang? he would of appreciated the 8 more if he saw it and understud everyword
Rotary rules!!
02-01-2008 | 02:11 AM
#2
02-01-2008 | 04:41 AM
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Just watched the show a couple times, the rotary team practically made the new rotary powered car (which was to be a 2 door coupe) behind fords back with little or no funds. They got together after work to work on thier secret project.
Their test mule was a beat-up black miata, which they called it "roach car".
They ditched the turbo in order to cut costs, which was their priority, (one of the reason the 7s didn't sell well, too expensive)
The side port exhaust was their only answer to make up the HP. This was deemed impossible since the original rotary team thought of it thirty-something years ago, but they pull it off by designing a "water jacket" which runs through the side walls with the width of only 3.5mm cooling the engine more efficiently. Which also led to better emission.
The apex seals seem to be made from new compounds and is rounded at the tip for less drag = higher rpms= more power. (they spent 3.8mil just on this)(this is after ford OKed)
and blah blah blah...
Ya, smiley overkill. coudln't help it after finding the more button.
(source: NHK Project X)
someone stop me if these already mentioned
Their test mule was a beat-up black miata, which they called it "roach car".
They ditched the turbo in order to cut costs, which was their priority, (one of the reason the 7s didn't sell well, too expensive)
The side port exhaust was their only answer to make up the HP. This was deemed impossible since the original rotary team thought of it thirty-something years ago, but they pull it off by designing a "water jacket" which runs through the side walls with the width of only 3.5mm cooling the engine more efficiently. Which also led to better emission.
The apex seals seem to be made from new compounds and is rounded at the tip for less drag = higher rpms= more power. (they spent 3.8mil just on this)(this is after ford OKed)
and blah blah blah...
Ya, smiley overkill. coudln't help it after finding the more button.
(source: NHK Project X)
someone stop me if these already mentioned
02-02-2008 | 12:31 AM
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If I knew more about programs than cars, I'd post them. I've yet to learn all these buttons on this site. 
If anyone knows a site that uploads stuff and stores up to 400mb for free, I would gladly post it, unless they track me down and sue me.
If anyone knows a site that uploads stuff and stores up to 400mb for free, I would gladly post it, unless they track me down and sue me.
02-02-2008 | 12:40 AM
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Thanks for the information. You said the program is in Japanese?
I think that Ford is under the mistaken belief that if a car dosn't have 4 seats & 4 doors, it is impractical and won't sell. I would have bought it as a 2 seater. Those back 2 seats just collect crap anyway.
I think that Ford is under the mistaken belief that if a car dosn't have 4 seats & 4 doors, it is impractical and won't sell. I would have bought it as a 2 seater. Those back 2 seats just collect crap anyway.
02-02-2008 | 12:51 AM
#10
doubt anyone will track it down for copyright reasons if it's several years old and in Japanese lol
Last edited by ZoomZoomH; 02-02-2008 at 12:55 AM.
02-02-2008 | 12:57 AM
#11
Thanks for the information. You said the program is in Japanese?
I think that Ford is under the mistaken belief that if a car dosn't have 4 seats & 4 doors, it is impractical and won't sell. I would have bought it as a 2 seater. Those back 2 seats just collect crap anyway.
I think that Ford is under the mistaken belief that if a car dosn't have 4 seats & 4 doors, it is impractical and won't sell. I would have bought it as a 2 seater. Those back 2 seats just collect crap anyway.
02-02-2008 | 01:14 AM
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Thanks for the information. You said the program is in Japanese?
I think that Ford is under the mistaken belief that if a car dosn't have 4 seats & 4 doors, it is impractical and won't sell. I would have bought it as a 2 seater. Those back 2 seats just collect crap anyway.
I think that Ford is under the mistaken belief that if a car dosn't have 4 seats & 4 doors, it is impractical and won't sell. I would have bought it as a 2 seater. Those back 2 seats just collect crap anyway.
I was considering a 2 door coupe like the s2000 or the fairlady, but I thought the extra 2 seats in the back would be useful further down the road so I jumped on it....
and ya Japanese are short in general so the 2 seater Japanese coups are a tight fit for a 6fter
02-02-2008 | 01:40 AM
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Just finished watching a 3 year old Japanese tv documentary called "project x" about the rx8...
...and found out FORD was the one responsible for the rx8 to be a 4 door sedan!!!(which mazda ingeniousely pulled it off as a 2+2 suicide door coupe without much loss in performance)
But it was all in exchange for getting the grant from Ford to revive the rotary heritage, which ended in 2001?.
...and found out
FORD was the one responsible for the rx8 to be a 4 door sedan!!!(which mazda ingeniousely pulled it off as a 2+2 suicide door coupe without much loss in performance) But it was all in exchange for getting the grant from Ford to revive the rotary heritage, which ended in 2001?.
The actual P007 project done back in late 1992 at Mazda North America R&D in Irvince CA had the suicide doors as part of the original concept. This was because the Sports car sales of the time were dropping and disappearing and SUV's were increasing sales. It was clear that the FD was going to be a flop then and that Mazda product planners mis-judged the market with a small expensive two seater.
It was decided back then that the new rotary powered car would be sufficient to support a 6'3 person in the back seat, and the target cars were the BMW 3 series and the Z car. In fact there was a owners research group in the spring of 1993 and they compared the P007 (which later was renamed the RX-Evolve) to the 3 series sedan and the ZX. It was met with very high acclaim at the time. Remember this was at the time the FD had just come out the year before and the Supra just had gotten its major restyle to the last version of its run.
But it was not until 1998 when Mazda decided that it needed to once again try a new sports car, and the product planners had already decided that it would fit 4 people.
And that is when MNAO R&D brought back out the P007 shown with a Rotary engine in the layout and sold it to the Mazda execs of the time.
Remember that it was Mark Jordan the asst Chief Engineer at Mazda at the time, that decided on the Missing B pillar design, based on such cars as the Lancia Aprillia, the French Faced Vega, and the Chrysler 300 concept car.
This is all backed up by Jack Yamaguchi's book and by Mark Jordon.
So the 4 doors had nothing to do with Ford. They were Mazda North America R&D all the way. Mazda design engineers, not Ford guys.
In fact the only thing that could be moderately even considered Ford was that Martin Leach (who was head of product development and engineering at Mazda during that time) later went on to become the head of Ford of Europe.
Last edited by Icemark; 02-02-2008 at 02:09 AM.
02-02-2008 | 01:50 AM
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From: In the hills between San Miguel and Parkfield - "up in the boonie lands", Central Coast of California, Wine Country
It may have been warped genius, or dumb luck, but I sure love the way 4 doors let you get golf clubs, friends, pets, luggage, etc. into an itty bitty sports car -
It is invisable enough to fool the wash-rack gangsters, and pretty enough that after two years of ownership we still attract admiration -
And fast enough to bedevil our local 'stangs, Hondys, and Core- vettes....
Most Ford ideas scare me but this was all good!
It is invisable enough to fool the wash-rack gangsters, and pretty enough that after two years of ownership we still attract admiration -
And fast enough to bedevil our local 'stangs, Hondys, and Core- vettes....
Most Ford ideas scare me but this was all good!
02-02-2008 | 03:54 AM
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What ever Eight saw was BS or he didn't understand it.
The actual P007 project done back in late 1992 at Mazda North America R&D in Irvince CA had the suicide doors as part of the original concept. This was because the Sports car sales of the time were dropping and disappearing and SUV's were increasing sales. It was clear that the FD was going to be a flop then and that Mazda product planners mis-judged the market with a small expensive two seater.
It was decided back then that the new rotary powered car would be sufficient to support a 6'3 person in the back seat, and the target cars were the BMW 3 series and the Z car. In fact there was a owners research group in the spring of 1993 and they compared the P007 (which later was renamed the RX-Evolve) to the 3 series sedan and the ZX. It was met with very high acclaim at the time. Remember this was at the time the FD had just come out the year before and the Supra just had gotten its major restyle to the last version of its run.
But it was not until 1998 when Mazda decided that it needed to once again try a new sports car, and the product planners had already decided that it would fit 4 people.
And that is when MNAO R&D brought back out the P007 shown with a Rotary engine in the layout and sold it to the Mazda execs of the time.
Remember that it was Mark Jordan the asst Chief Engineer at Mazda at the time, that decided on the Missing B pillar design, based on such cars as the Lancia Aprillia, the French Faced Vega, and the Chrysler 300 concept car.
This is all backed up by Jack Yamaguchi's book and by Mark Jordon.
So the 4 doors had nothing to do with Ford. They were Mazda North America R&D all the way. Mazda design engineers, not Ford guys.
In fact the only thing that could be moderately even considered Ford was that Martin Leach (who was head of product development and engineering at Mazda during that time) later went on to become the head of Ford of Europe.
The actual P007 project done back in late 1992 at Mazda North America R&D in Irvince CA had the suicide doors as part of the original concept. This was because the Sports car sales of the time were dropping and disappearing and SUV's were increasing sales. It was clear that the FD was going to be a flop then and that Mazda product planners mis-judged the market with a small expensive two seater.
It was decided back then that the new rotary powered car would be sufficient to support a 6'3 person in the back seat, and the target cars were the BMW 3 series and the Z car. In fact there was a owners research group in the spring of 1993 and they compared the P007 (which later was renamed the RX-Evolve) to the 3 series sedan and the ZX. It was met with very high acclaim at the time. Remember this was at the time the FD had just come out the year before and the Supra just had gotten its major restyle to the last version of its run.
But it was not until 1998 when Mazda decided that it needed to once again try a new sports car, and the product planners had already decided that it would fit 4 people.
And that is when MNAO R&D brought back out the P007 shown with a Rotary engine in the layout and sold it to the Mazda execs of the time.
Remember that it was Mark Jordan the asst Chief Engineer at Mazda at the time, that decided on the Missing B pillar design, based on such cars as the Lancia Aprillia, the French Faced Vega, and the Chrysler 300 concept car.
This is all backed up by Jack Yamaguchi's book and by Mark Jordon.
So the 4 doors had nothing to do with Ford. They were Mazda North America R&D all the way. Mazda design engineers, not Ford guys.
In fact the only thing that could be moderately even considered Ford was that Martin Leach (who was head of product development and engineering at Mazda during that time) later went on to become the head of Ford of Europe.
Hey man whats with the hate'n
Maybe I got some of the dates wrong, and I sure the program exaggerated alot of things to cram it into a 40min show. I don't dissagree with you nore I don't think the show was BS, Im sure there are bits and pieces that fit together...
It says on the vid the project started sometimes after 1996 when rotary team was disbanded from 50 to only 5 people and when the rotary engine plant was only operated once every three months. (pretty much explains that they weren't planning on continuing anything after the 7, although they did produce different versions of it till 2002)
In august 1998 the team called Martin Leach, a managing director of Ford, and a former race car driver(which is why they chose him) , to the miyoshi test course in hiroshima to test drive the test mule inorder to get his favor, which eventually leads to the approval of the new rotary powered car, by the ford executives including Mark Fields.
In January 1999, they were told by one of Fords executive in Hiroshima(they didn't mention any name), they can build the car with one condition, "turning the 2 door into a 4"
It says that Nobuo Katabuchi (chief of designing?) came up with the bold idea of a rear hinged door, to shorten the length by 15cm and save 10kg. and I'm sure he didn't take all the credit, just as the chief.
also added that the rear door was made from aluminum which is 1/3 lighter and they used a new welding technology to make it happen...
They didn't go into detail about every little aspect of the car and every single person that worked on it, since it was mainly about the engine, and the 8 was pretty much built around the engine.
I'm sure there is another huge complex story behind the design concept. Although I couldn't find anything about the p007 on the net, except for another post you posted on the rx7club, I'm sure theres a story to that too...
so its not entirely BS
anyways
I'll try to get it on youtube, since its considered a imaginary vid that doesn't exist
02-02-2008 | 04:37 AM
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Down to two smily faces...not bad.
Well true or not, or even if just a bit true, I found it an interesting read along with the other persons detailed reply.
Back seats, got my vote, works well for a 7 yr old back there plus putting many things you might wish to put in the car if going for a ride instead of back in the truck.
One of the reasons I left the mx5 was it was just, ok sit down for this it is coming, too small and no storage areas. Well for me at least. I'm only 5'10" and a guy at work is way taller then me so yes, I know others do fit. I just happen to be a person that wants to have space to toss things in the car and if I had someone with me then the truck was the only place things could go in the mx5. Went to the store the other day and saw an mx5 with the top down and drink cup (one of those 24oz sizes) in the passanger seat. I mean really, the mx5 is meant for I assume pure sport car riders. Besides I think it rocks the low wide stance the rx8 has when looking out front from behind the wheel.
Well true or not, or even if just a bit true, I found it an interesting read along with the other persons detailed reply.
Back seats, got my vote, works well for a 7 yr old back there plus putting many things you might wish to put in the car if going for a ride instead of back in the truck.
One of the reasons I left the mx5 was it was just, ok sit down for this it is coming, too small and no storage areas. Well for me at least. I'm only 5'10" and a guy at work is way taller then me so yes, I know others do fit. I just happen to be a person that wants to have space to toss things in the car and if I had someone with me then the truck was the only place things could go in the mx5. Went to the store the other day and saw an mx5 with the top down and drink cup (one of those 24oz sizes) in the passanger seat. I mean really, the mx5 is meant for I assume pure sport car riders. Besides I think it rocks the low wide stance the rx8 has when looking out front from behind the wheel.
02-02-2008 | 09:38 AM
#22
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From: NYC
Funny, but I like the Freestyle doors and the back seats—even though I've never had a 4-door before. In fact, I wouldn't have bought an 8 if it had conventional rear doors. I love how people think the car is a coupe…
Friend's kid: Hey, nice car.
Me: Thanks, it's nice havin' four doors for a change.
Kid: That's not a four door.
Me: Yeah it is. (I then open them.)
Kid: Wow. Cool.
I also like those little doors on the back of the new Mini Cooper Clubman. Guess I have a thing for weird doors.
Friend's kid: Hey, nice car.
Me: Thanks, it's nice havin' four doors for a change.
Kid: That's not a four door.
Me: Yeah it is. (I then open them.)
Kid: Wow. Cool.
I also like those little doors on the back of the new Mini Cooper Clubman. Guess I have a thing for weird doors.
02-02-2008 | 08:40 PM
#25
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From: Sandy, Utah
I love the way the car is set up. those back 2 doors are the main reason I got it over the Z. Its just me and my fiance, so we only need the 2 seets, but even just carrying stuff in the car is so much easier.