why is the rx-8 not that popular?
04-05-2008 | 08:44 PM
#76
Void Where Prohibited
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,046
Likes: 0
From: Mineola, TX
As a sales manager who has sold Mazdas since the beginning of 05 (and more rx8's then any line-sales man in the NW 06-07) I thought I'd put in my two cents (for what its worth).
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceived fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceived fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
04-05-2008 | 09:07 PM
#77
mazda salesman
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: NE Portland, OR
Sorry about the multiple posts. My server here at work is a bit wacky and didn't show my posting.
"1.) It's Wankel, not Wankle. The FB sold wonderfully because it had clear advantages over the competition and much of that had to do with the rotary. Fast forward 20+ years and the advantages are minimal and the cons are still present.
2.) They sold worse than Mazda expected. They didn't hit their first years sales goals and the first few years had production outpacing demand by a good amount which led to cars sitting on lots for a long time and having to be deeply discounted to be moved. This killed resale more than anything.
3.) Yeah, there's some misinformation, but Mazda has done plenty to shoot themselves in the foot. They dropped the ball on the cooling and design of the FD. They dropped the ball on the horsepower ratings more than once with the RX-8. Then the video surfaced about the owner surveys and RX-8. Then the recall and a lot of replaced engines. Those are all real problems and have nothing to do with misinformation.
4.) There's nothing perceived about it... The fuel economy is poor. It might be somewhat close to cars like the Z or G35, but look at the straight line performance and horsepower of those heavier cars, and then consider they still often get better mileage. Don't fool yourself, sportscar owners still care about gas mileage. Now more than ever with the current and forecasted price of gas.
5.) Numbers aside, if you're used to having good torque down low the RX-8 will feel a little doggy, it's as simple as that.
6.) I haven't read it in a long time so no comment here."
Boy, I guess we know where you stand on the issue. With the ability to put a spin on like that you ought to be selling cars. Come see me about a job, I have a Nissan store that always has a bunch of 350z's sitting there with rebates going up every month, I'm sure they could put you to work...
__________________
"1.) It's Wankel, not Wankle. The FB sold wonderfully because it had clear advantages over the competition and much of that had to do with the rotary. Fast forward 20+ years and the advantages are minimal and the cons are still present.
2.) They sold worse than Mazda expected. They didn't hit their first years sales goals and the first few years had production outpacing demand by a good amount which led to cars sitting on lots for a long time and having to be deeply discounted to be moved. This killed resale more than anything.
3.) Yeah, there's some misinformation, but Mazda has done plenty to shoot themselves in the foot. They dropped the ball on the cooling and design of the FD. They dropped the ball on the horsepower ratings more than once with the RX-8. Then the video surfaced about the owner surveys and RX-8. Then the recall and a lot of replaced engines. Those are all real problems and have nothing to do with misinformation.
4.) There's nothing perceived about it... The fuel economy is poor. It might be somewhat close to cars like the Z or G35, but look at the straight line performance and horsepower of those heavier cars, and then consider they still often get better mileage. Don't fool yourself, sportscar owners still care about gas mileage. Now more than ever with the current and forecasted price of gas.
5.) Numbers aside, if you're used to having good torque down low the RX-8 will feel a little doggy, it's as simple as that.
6.) I haven't read it in a long time so no comment here."
Boy, I guess we know where you stand on the issue. With the ability to put a spin on like that you ought to be selling cars. Come see me about a job, I have a Nissan store that always has a bunch of 350z's sitting there with rebates going up every month, I'm sure they could put you to work...
__________________
04-05-2008 | 09:35 PM
#78
Rex8
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Since when is a Legacy GT, Grand Prix GPX, Impala SS, and G35 your average family sedan? Those happen to all be exceptional sports sedans or performance versions of their respective models. By your measure why not include some BMWs, Benzes, Acuras, Infinitys, etc.....I've raced Accords and as a matter of fact they are governed at 130.
04-06-2008 | 03:03 AM
#80
Rex8
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
You're so right about the ratio of Mustangs to RX8. I was tempted to buy a Mustang GT myself, that is until I test drove the RX8. I may go weeks without seeing an RX8 and when I do see one I usually don't recognize it at first. I notice it as a sharp car first then it hits me, " hey that's an RX8" dam that looks good. I used to be the guy who would speed up to get a better look at the 8 since they are so rare.
04-06-2008 | 03:10 AM
#81
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
im still in debate over a 'stang and an rx8, though the more and more i get on this forum, the more and more im leaning to the 8 lol.
plus i agree with you guys on the rarity thing. even though i love the mustang, every time i see one i think, "oh cool, another mustang"
i do like to stick out and be unique, a.k.a., rx8
theres like 40,000,000 stangs on the road where i live, and in 16 years since i moved here, ive seen 2 different RX8's. a white one and a red one haha. this is in OC also
plus i agree with you guys on the rarity thing. even though i love the mustang, every time i see one i think, "oh cool, another mustang"
i do like to stick out and be unique, a.k.a., rx8
theres like 40,000,000 stangs on the road where i live, and in 16 years since i moved here, ive seen 2 different RX8's. a white one and a red one haha. this is in OC also
04-06-2008 | 03:55 AM
#82
Rex8
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
There you go !
I'm still in debate over a 'stang and an rx8, though the more and more i get on this forum, the more and more I'm leaning to the 8 lol.
plus i agree with you guys on the rarity thing. even though i love the mustang, every time i see one i think, "oh cool, another mustang"
i do like to stick out and be unique, a.k.a., rx8
there's like 40,000,000 stangs on the road where i live, and in 16 years since i moved here, I've seen 2 different RX8's. a white one and a red one ha-ha. this is in OC also
plus i agree with you guys on the rarity thing. even though i love the mustang, every time i see one i think, "oh cool, another mustang"
i do like to stick out and be unique, a.k.a., rx8
there's like 40,000,000 stangs on the road where i live, and in 16 years since i moved here, I've seen 2 different RX8's. a white one and a red one ha-ha. this is in OC also
04-06-2008 | 06:11 AM
#83
Blue By You
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,717
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee
Sorry about the multiple posts. My server here at work is a bit wacky and didn't show my posting.
"1.) It's Wankel, not Wankle. The FB sold wonderfully because it had clear advantages over the competition and much of that had to do with the rotary. Fast forward 20+ years and the advantages are minimal and the cons are still present.
2.) They sold worse than Mazda expected. They didn't hit their first years sales goals and the first few years had production outpacing demand by a good amount which led to cars sitting on lots for a long time and having to be deeply discounted to be moved. This killed resale more than anything.
3.) Yeah, there's some misinformation, but Mazda has done plenty to shoot themselves in the foot. They dropped the ball on the cooling and design of the FD. They dropped the ball on the horsepower ratings more than once with the RX-8. Then the video surfaced about the owner surveys and RX-8. Then the recall and a lot of replaced engines. Those are all real problems and have nothing to do with misinformation.
4.) There's nothing perceived about it... The fuel economy is poor. It might be somewhat close to cars like the Z or G35, but look at the straight line performance and horsepower of those heavier cars, and then consider they still often get better mileage. Don't fool yourself, sportscar owners still care about gas mileage. Now more than ever with the current and forecasted price of gas.
5.) Numbers aside, if you're used to having good torque down low the RX-8 will feel a little doggy, it's as simple as that.
6.) I haven't read it in a long time so no comment here."
Boy, I guess we know where you stand on the issue. With the ability to put a spin on like that you ought to be selling cars. Come see me about a job, I have a Nissan store that always has a bunch of 350z's sitting there with rebates going up every month, I'm sure they could put you to work...
__________________
"1.) It's Wankel, not Wankle. The FB sold wonderfully because it had clear advantages over the competition and much of that had to do with the rotary. Fast forward 20+ years and the advantages are minimal and the cons are still present.
2.) They sold worse than Mazda expected. They didn't hit their first years sales goals and the first few years had production outpacing demand by a good amount which led to cars sitting on lots for a long time and having to be deeply discounted to be moved. This killed resale more than anything.
3.) Yeah, there's some misinformation, but Mazda has done plenty to shoot themselves in the foot. They dropped the ball on the cooling and design of the FD. They dropped the ball on the horsepower ratings more than once with the RX-8. Then the video surfaced about the owner surveys and RX-8. Then the recall and a lot of replaced engines. Those are all real problems and have nothing to do with misinformation.
4.) There's nothing perceived about it... The fuel economy is poor. It might be somewhat close to cars like the Z or G35, but look at the straight line performance and horsepower of those heavier cars, and then consider they still often get better mileage. Don't fool yourself, sportscar owners still care about gas mileage. Now more than ever with the current and forecasted price of gas.
5.) Numbers aside, if you're used to having good torque down low the RX-8 will feel a little doggy, it's as simple as that.
6.) I haven't read it in a long time so no comment here."
Boy, I guess we know where you stand on the issue. With the ability to put a spin on like that you ought to be selling cars. Come see me about a job, I have a Nissan store that always has a bunch of 350z's sitting there with rebates going up every month, I'm sure they could put you to work...
__________________
No spin, very much the truth. Refute anything I just said... I really like the RX-8, it just wasn't for me and if I to buy a 350Z or an RX-8 I'd probably pick the RX-8. Though I'd have to think hard if I could buy a 350Z for 8,000 below MSRP like you could with the RX-8 when there were too many of them put on lots by Mazda.
04-06-2008 | 06:21 AM
#84
Blue By You
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,717
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee
Since when is a Legacy GT, Grand Prix GPX, Impala SS, and G35 your average family sedan? Those happen to all be exceptional sports sedans or performance versions of their respective models. By your measure why not include some BMWs, Benzes, Acuras, Infinitys, etc.....I've raced Accords and as a matter of fact they are governed at 130.
). Don't know where you live, but where I am the cars I mentioned are quite common and they're hardly anything special. As for your last statement, congrats on being a moron and racing someone over 130 mph on public roads.
04-06-2008 | 06:23 AM
#85
Blue By You
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,717
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee
Ike lost all automobile credibility with this priceless quote:
"I've known 9 people with Miatas. Of those 9, 5 were gay men, 2 were women, and none of them bought the car because of handling or any type of performance. They wanted a cute affordable car with a droptop..."
To imply that the MX-5 is anything less than one of the finest sports cars of all time flies in the face of what every automobile journalist—and anyone who truly understands what makes a sports car great—has known since it came out 19 years ago. Unbelievable.
NY Times, 3/16/08:
"SOMEWHERE along the line, the Mazda Miata became a pop-culture punching bag. The Miata appears in the movies “Corky Romano” and “Super Troopers,” as well as Comedy Central’s “Reno 911,” cast as the car of choice for the comically misguided. How can a serious sports car attract this sort of undeserved mockery? Probably because it’s too subtle.
I love gross displays of brute force as much as the next American, so I can see why the Miata is one of the most misunderstood cars on the market. It doesn’t have side pipes or a hood scoop or a name that conjures images of bloodlust and rage. Therefore we should pick on it.
Now, like a lot of people, I get seduced by outrageous horsepower and blinding acceleration. So I tend to forget how wonderful the Miata is, because you need to drive it to understand its appeal.
On paper it seems unremarkable, but a mere spec sheet won’t divulge the essence of this car. Its 166-horsepower engine doesn’t make face-melting power, but it seems to have no flywheel whatsoever, and a blip of the throttle results in an instant, melodic zing that begs you to match revs on your next downshift. The shifter feels as though a team of engineers spent months working on its action, and a flick of the wrist rewards you with the rare feeling of metal engaging metal, a precision machine at work.
The chassis won’t generate blackout-inducing G-forces, yet note the steering wheel when you ease off in a corner: it stays almost where it is, having almost no self-centering tendency.
There’s no traction control, no stability control, no computers subtly undermining your throttle or steering inputs with their own second-guesses. It’s just you and the car, and it’s great gobs of fun.
The Miata is, and always has been, a meticulously engineered sports car for hard-core purists. But it gets used as a Corky Romano sight gag because it’s not macho in any way that our culture comprehends.
It is probably inevitable that Mazda will eventually buff up the Miata’s image by giving it the 263-horsepower turbocharged engine from the Mazdaspeed 3. The resulting car will be faster, but I have a feeling that, hardtop or softtop, the original version — so light, so fluid, so balanced and slick — will still be the best."
"I've known 9 people with Miatas. Of those 9, 5 were gay men, 2 were women, and none of them bought the car because of handling or any type of performance. They wanted a cute affordable car with a droptop..."
To imply that the MX-5 is anything less than one of the finest sports cars of all time flies in the face of what every automobile journalist—and anyone who truly understands what makes a sports car great—has known since it came out 19 years ago. Unbelievable.
NY Times, 3/16/08:
"SOMEWHERE along the line, the Mazda Miata became a pop-culture punching bag. The Miata appears in the movies “Corky Romano” and “Super Troopers,” as well as Comedy Central’s “Reno 911,” cast as the car of choice for the comically misguided. How can a serious sports car attract this sort of undeserved mockery? Probably because it’s too subtle.
I love gross displays of brute force as much as the next American, so I can see why the Miata is one of the most misunderstood cars on the market. It doesn’t have side pipes or a hood scoop or a name that conjures images of bloodlust and rage. Therefore we should pick on it.
Now, like a lot of people, I get seduced by outrageous horsepower and blinding acceleration. So I tend to forget how wonderful the Miata is, because you need to drive it to understand its appeal.
On paper it seems unremarkable, but a mere spec sheet won’t divulge the essence of this car. Its 166-horsepower engine doesn’t make face-melting power, but it seems to have no flywheel whatsoever, and a blip of the throttle results in an instant, melodic zing that begs you to match revs on your next downshift. The shifter feels as though a team of engineers spent months working on its action, and a flick of the wrist rewards you with the rare feeling of metal engaging metal, a precision machine at work.
The chassis won’t generate blackout-inducing G-forces, yet note the steering wheel when you ease off in a corner: it stays almost where it is, having almost no self-centering tendency.
There’s no traction control, no stability control, no computers subtly undermining your throttle or steering inputs with their own second-guesses. It’s just you and the car, and it’s great gobs of fun.
The Miata is, and always has been, a meticulously engineered sports car for hard-core purists. But it gets used as a Corky Romano sight gag because it’s not macho in any way that our culture comprehends.
It is probably inevitable that Mazda will eventually buff up the Miata’s image by giving it the 263-horsepower turbocharged engine from the Mazdaspeed 3. The resulting car will be faster, but I have a feeling that, hardtop or softtop, the original version — so light, so fluid, so balanced and slick — will still be the best."
04-06-2008 | 08:39 AM
#86
Rex8
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
I stand corrected.....
You said average, I just said V6 family sedan (forgive me for the V8 GXP and 4 cylinder Legacy inclusion ). Don't know where you live, but where I am the cars I mentioned are quite common and they're hardly anything special.
As for your last statement, congrats on being a moron and racing someone over 130 mph on public roads.
). Don't know where you live, but where I am the cars I mentioned are quite common and they're hardly anything special. As for your last statement, congrats on being a moron and racing someone over 130 mph on public roads.
What began for me as a "tongue in cheek" response to a fairly insignificant query appears to have escalated into a quasi "battle of Wit and words". As usual I attempted to blend a mix of humor and levity to my posts in part to entertain those willing to read them. It seems, Ike, you have a penchant for debate and, I'm guessing, are quite skilled at it based on your impressive number of posts. In an effort to promote a more civil discord I acquiesce to your superior........ness.
04-06-2008 | 10:44 AM
#87
Thanks for your insightful and honest posts. Nice to get perspective from the other side of the desk.
I really couldn't care less about resale. I'm firmly in the niche and will hold on to my '8 for a long time.
For me, it's just plain fun to drive and I kinda like being unique, even if that was never my intention.
I really couldn't care less about resale. I'm firmly in the niche and will hold on to my '8 for a long time.
For me, it's just plain fun to drive and I kinda like being unique, even if that was never my intention.
04-06-2008 | 01:21 PM
#88
Wut da F Y'all lookin' @!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 1
From: Germany
It is also much safer to experience 90% of your car's 0-60mph performance than it is to experience 90% of the handling capabilities of the rx-8 on public roads. I would guess (completely made-up numbers of course) that fewer than 20% of rx-8 owners actually will ever experience the handling capabilities of their cars. When people say "handling" they really mean "sporty feel".
Point being, that at least people who go for brute force will most likely actually use their car's for what they bought them for...
I disagree with people saying the rotary is one of the reasons the car hasn't done well. I don't think joe schmoe public knows the difference between a rotary and a piston engine. The guy said it well that a v6 sedan has better acceleration, a corvette better gas mileage, and the looks are love it or hate it. Most people buying cars have very simple needs, and a unique engine and rocket-ship styling are usually not on that list.
Point being, that at least people who go for brute force will most likely actually use their car's for what they bought them for...
I disagree with people saying the rotary is one of the reasons the car hasn't done well. I don't think joe schmoe public knows the difference between a rotary and a piston engine. The guy said it well that a v6 sedan has better acceleration, a corvette better gas mileage, and the looks are love it or hate it. Most people buying cars have very simple needs, and a unique engine and rocket-ship styling are usually not on that list.
One other incident that took place was I stopped at a Sonics and after my food came I attempted to start my car up and it wouldn't spin up right away so some idiot with a mouth full of food screams out "ROTARY". I at that point had pretty much started to narrow down what the real problem was and that was actually that I was getting bad tanks of gas on the base I am assigned to. Of course this goofball didn't realize that (and the RX-8 can be picky I guess).
So I can honestly say in my experience there is some validity to the perception of this better than advertised engine causing some concern on the part of potential buyers. I fortunately have had an FC before so this wasn't a scary proposition for me but if I hadn't taken the risk that I did with my '88 RX-7 GXL then I would have never risked a car with the false information out there like this car has.
04-06-2008 | 10:26 PM
#89
Registered
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Madison, WI
I bought this car cause I love the way it looks and feels when you drive it. I love the fact it's rare because it turns so many heads, I wonder if I got my pant's on the right way... and I do.
I am one of those people that wanted something unique...all my buddies drive BMWs, AUDIs and smilar vehicles, laughed at me when I chose the 8 because it was a "mazda" and not a european car like theirs. But now when we go somewhere and park our cars, people come upto me and say "wow, what kind of car is that". the common word I get for my 8 is "SEXY". And all my BMW/AUDI buddies who paid alot more than I did, are thiking "wish I got the same compliments for my car".
It's a sports car, so I don't care about the gas mileage. Keeps me from driving it all day.
It's a rotary engine, so those guys don't even know how to compare.
It's a unique design (specially the doors)....
AND it's rare....which gives us 8 owners...BRAGGING RIGHTS in my opinion
I am one of those people that wanted something unique...all my buddies drive BMWs, AUDIs and smilar vehicles, laughed at me when I chose the 8 because it was a "mazda" and not a european car like theirs. But now when we go somewhere and park our cars, people come upto me and say "wow, what kind of car is that". the common word I get for my 8 is "SEXY". And all my BMW/AUDI buddies who paid alot more than I did, are thiking "wish I got the same compliments for my car".
It's a sports car, so I don't care about the gas mileage. Keeps me from driving it all day.
It's a rotary engine, so those guys don't even know how to compare.
It's a unique design (specially the doors)....
AND it's rare....which gives us 8 owners...BRAGGING RIGHTS in my opinion
04-07-2008 | 09:18 AM
#91
I hear ya. My buddies have been trying to get me into a Bimmer for years now. They are fine machines, but I really do appreciate the Rotary's unique capabilities.
I bought this car cause I love the way it looks and feels when you drive it. I love the fact it's rare because it turns so many heads, I wonder if I got my pant's on the right way... and I do.
I am one of those people that wanted something unique...all my buddies drive BMWs, AUDIs and smilar vehicles, laughed at me when I chose the 8 because it was a "mazda" and not a european car like theirs. But now when we go somewhere and park our cars, people come upto me and say "wow, what kind of car is that". the common word I get for my 8 is "SEXY". And all my BMW/AUDI buddies who paid alot more than I did, are thiking "wish I got the same compliments for my car".
It's a sports car, so I don't care about the gas mileage. Keeps me from driving it all day.
It's a rotary engine, so those guys don't even know how to compare.
It's a unique design (specially the doors)....
AND it's rare....which gives us 8 owners...BRAGGING RIGHTS in my opinion
I am one of those people that wanted something unique...all my buddies drive BMWs, AUDIs and smilar vehicles, laughed at me when I chose the 8 because it was a "mazda" and not a european car like theirs. But now when we go somewhere and park our cars, people come upto me and say "wow, what kind of car is that". the common word I get for my 8 is "SEXY". And all my BMW/AUDI buddies who paid alot more than I did, are thiking "wish I got the same compliments for my car".
It's a sports car, so I don't care about the gas mileage. Keeps me from driving it all day.
It's a rotary engine, so those guys don't even know how to compare.
It's a unique design (specially the doors)....
AND it's rare....which gives us 8 owners...BRAGGING RIGHTS in my opinion
04-07-2008 | 11:44 AM
#92
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Ike lost all automobile credibility with this priceless quote:
"I've known 9 people with Miatas. Of those 9, 5 were gay men, 2 were women, and none of them bought the car because of handling or any type of performance. They wanted a cute affordable car with a droptop..."
To imply that the MX-5 is anything less than one of the finest sports cars of all time flies in the face of what every automobile journalist—and anyone who truly understands what makes a sports car great—has known since it came out 19 years ago. Unbelievable.
"I've known 9 people with Miatas. Of those 9, 5 were gay men, 2 were women, and none of them bought the car because of handling or any type of performance. They wanted a cute affordable car with a droptop..."
To imply that the MX-5 is anything less than one of the finest sports cars of all time flies in the face of what every automobile journalist—and anyone who truly understands what makes a sports car great—has known since it came out 19 years ago. Unbelievable.
04-07-2008 | 12:09 PM
#93
I bought this car cause I love the way it looks and feels when you drive it. I love the fact it's rare because it turns so many heads, I wonder if I got my pant's on the right way... and I do.
I am one of those people that wanted something unique...all my buddies drive BMWs, AUDIs and smilar vehicles, laughed at me when I chose the 8 because it was a "mazda" and not a european car like theirs. But now when we go somewhere and park our cars, people come upto me and say "wow, what kind of car is that". the common word I get for my 8 is "SEXY". And all my BMW/AUDI buddies who paid alot more than I did, are thiking "wish I got the same compliments for my car".
It's a sports car, so I don't care about the gas mileage. Keeps me from driving it all day.
It's a rotary engine, so those guys don't even know how to compare.
It's a unique design (specially the doors)....
AND it's rare....which gives us 8 owners...BRAGGING RIGHTS in my opinion
I am one of those people that wanted something unique...all my buddies drive BMWs, AUDIs and smilar vehicles, laughed at me when I chose the 8 because it was a "mazda" and not a european car like theirs. But now when we go somewhere and park our cars, people come upto me and say "wow, what kind of car is that". the common word I get for my 8 is "SEXY". And all my BMW/AUDI buddies who paid alot more than I did, are thiking "wish I got the same compliments for my car".
It's a sports car, so I don't care about the gas mileage. Keeps me from driving it all day.
It's a rotary engine, so those guys don't even know how to compare.
It's a unique design (specially the doors)....
AND it's rare....which gives us 8 owners...BRAGGING RIGHTS in my opinion
04-07-2008 | 12:25 PM
#94
Huge hole is huge
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 1
From: Joplin, MO
No matter how much you guys don't agree with Ike, he does spout some good points. The FB was such a success, then come around to the end of the FC, and the price was getting just too steep for the people, then the FD came out, and it's gods gift to sports cars, until the reliability kicks in....that shocked people away from the Rotary for a looong while.
I love this car as much as any other enthusiast, but just flat out denying all of Ike's points because you don't want to believe it just isn't right...
But in the end, I'm still VERY, VERY proud to own this car.
I love this car as much as any other enthusiast, but just flat out denying all of Ike's points because you don't want to believe it just isn't right...
But in the end, I'm still VERY, VERY proud to own this car.
04-07-2008 | 12:48 PM
#95
Grand Chancellor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 58
From: Home of the NIMBYs
You know this is a funny thread. Considering this is a forum for RX-8 enthusiasts, members will always be critical of their own car. I am reminded of my Legacy GT forum days when the members complained about why is the Legacy not popular because it drives well, fast, looks good etc...
Folks there will always people who likes something over the other like every products. That what keeps our world turning.
For me the RX-8 is about balance. From performance, good looks and daily driving comfort. The nearest car that I can think of is the Cayman. But that doesn't have back seats. Some clueless folks will post something about it not fast. To me an owner of a stage II Cobb tuned 92x and a previous JDM STi owner, the 8 is fast in its ease of going about it. I love how from the ground up chassis and suspension design works with the smooth drive-train to deliver a pleasing driving experience. Lastly as a car enthusiast, I would still lavish the same kind of attention to the 8 as any other car past and present. And if that is an issue, then the 8 is not for you and that's alright with me. Just don't sit there an envy...
Folks there will always people who likes something over the other like every products. That what keeps our world turning.
For me the RX-8 is about balance. From performance, good looks and daily driving comfort. The nearest car that I can think of is the Cayman. But that doesn't have back seats. Some clueless folks will post something about it not fast. To me an owner of a stage II Cobb tuned 92x and a previous JDM STi owner, the 8 is fast in its ease of going about it. I love how from the ground up chassis and suspension design works with the smooth drive-train to deliver a pleasing driving experience. Lastly as a car enthusiast, I would still lavish the same kind of attention to the 8 as any other car past and present. And if that is an issue, then the 8 is not for you and that's alright with me. Just don't sit there an envy...
04-07-2008 | 02:43 PM
#96
Registered
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,972
Likes: 0
I've been waiting for Mazdaspeed Rx8 version since...2003.
I am still waiting.
I can get a 135i now, but I just keep coming back and read about rx8. 300hp/300tq is a lot, but...there are just so many of them!
My 1.8T is reaching 180,000km soon, and even tho I know I can still smoke a rx8 on a straight line, my heart keep asking me to consider it...
That said, do we have a good solution (NA, not super turbo stuff) on solving the power issue in rx8 nowadays? Is the racing beat ecu the best solution so far?
Thanks....
I am still waiting.
I can get a 135i now, but I just keep coming back and read about rx8. 300hp/300tq is a lot, but...there are just so many of them!
My 1.8T is reaching 180,000km soon, and even tho I know I can still smoke a rx8 on a straight line, my heart keep asking me to consider it...
That said, do we have a good solution (NA, not super turbo stuff) on solving the power issue in rx8 nowadays? Is the racing beat ecu the best solution so far?
Thanks....
04-07-2008 | 04:01 PM
#97
Registered
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 2
From: Chicago
I agree that the slight increase in maintenance probably scares off some prospective buyers, but if there's widespread belief that the 8 suffers from "engine failures" - which I doubt - it comes from the "engine failure" propoganda that you and five other people on this forum continue to propogate, and not from reality: that Mazda chose to replace - rather than repair - the small percentage of mostly '04 first-year-of-production cars that had engines that failed a compression test.
An engine that runs with some loss of power and that is then replaced - instead of just repaired - because it fails a compression test is NOT THE SAME as "engine failure". "Engine failure" is a commonly used expression that to the vast majority of people conjures up images of an engine suddenly making a loud, explosive sound as it suddenly freezes, stops dead in its tracks, releasing a dramatic cloud of smoke and sparks, leaving its poor, unsuspecting owner stranded in the middle of nowhere.
If Mazda had elected to repair the engines that failed the compression test there wouldn't be any talk of "engine failure," so I find it ironic that in taking the extra step of replacing the engines Mazda opened the door to pinheads casually throwing around highly negative, frightening and emotionally-loaded terms like "engine failure". But, like with any good propoganda, if you repeat it often enough it will, in time, become fact. Here, let me help you: ENGINE FAILURE! ENGINE FAILURE! Oh god forbid we buy a car that'll have an engine failure!!!
An engine that runs with some loss of power and that is then replaced - instead of just repaired - because it fails a compression test is NOT THE SAME as "engine failure". "Engine failure" is a commonly used expression that to the vast majority of people conjures up images of an engine suddenly making a loud, explosive sound as it suddenly freezes, stops dead in its tracks, releasing a dramatic cloud of smoke and sparks, leaving its poor, unsuspecting owner stranded in the middle of nowhere.
If Mazda had elected to repair the engines that failed the compression test there wouldn't be any talk of "engine failure," so I find it ironic that in taking the extra step of replacing the engines Mazda opened the door to pinheads casually throwing around highly negative, frightening and emotionally-loaded terms like "engine failure". But, like with any good propoganda, if you repeat it often enough it will, in time, become fact. Here, let me help you: ENGINE FAILURE! ENGINE FAILURE! Oh god forbid we buy a car that'll have an engine failure!!!
Engine not working + Engine replaced = Engine failure
Simple as that. Now myself and the other 4 people you mentioned must be pretty busy because there are a hell of a lot of threads that report engine FAILURE. I believe that in a miss guided attempt to prove that all is right in RX-8 land you started a thread surveying engine FAILURE rates among RX-8 user. Apparently you figured it would justify your illusion that there is no issue. Unfortunately your own survey showed a 20% FAILURE rate. If you go to a 350Z board or S2000 board and type in engine failure then do the same here you'll see the results that support the engine FAILURE issue in the RX-8.
Lets summarize this, shall we....
- Much larger volume of reported engine failures then on similar car boards.
- Your own survey showing 20% failure rate, this does have statistical issue but is still the best information we have.
- Mazda recalled 3 years worth of cars to test for engine FAILURE.
- Mazda redesigned the engine oiling system in the 08 to correct lubrication issues which were the cause of the engine failures in the current generation.
- Mazda never released a number for failure rate which in and of it self is telling. Of course I always find it amusing when you say it is a small number with out knowing any real numbers while ignoring the only numbers we do have access to, I guess god is giving this info to you in a dream.
....and you can offer what to support your illusion?????
Fan-boy < Facts
Last edited by Raptor75; 04-07-2008 at 05:08 PM.
04-07-2008 | 04:08 PM
#98
Registered
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 2
From: Chicago
Well put, especially number one. If this car could out run a 350z this thread would not exist. In the US 0-60 sells and the fact that to hit the 0-60 mark of 5.9 sec with a RX-8 requires a clutch dump at 7K RPM is not a good thing.
Again the RX-8 is a great car but you can like the car and be realist all at the same time.
Again the RX-8 is a great car but you can like the car and be realist all at the same time.
1.) It's Wankel, not Wankle. The FB sold wonderfully because it had clear advantages over the competition and much of that had to do with the rotary. Fast forward 20+ years and the advantages are minimal and the cons are still present.
2.) They sold worse than Mazda expected. They didn't hit their first years sales goals and the first few years had production outpacing demand by a good amount which led to cars sitting on lots for a long time and having to be deeply discounted to be moved. This killed resale more than anything.
3.) Yeah, there's some misinformation, but Mazda has done plenty to shoot themselves in the foot. They dropped the ball on the cooling and design of the FD. They dropped the ball on the horsepower ratings more than once with the RX-8. Then the video surfaced about the owner surveys and RX-8. Then the recall and a lot of replaced engines. Those are all real problems and have nothing to do with misinformation.
4.) There's nothing perceived about it... The fuel economy is poor. It might be somewhat close to cars like the Z or G35, but look at the straight line performance and horsepower of those heavier cars, and then consider they still often get better mileage. Don't fool yourself, sportscar owners still care about gas mileage. Now more than ever with the current and forecasted price of gas.
5.) Numbers aside, if you're used to having good torque down low the RX-8 will feel a little doggy, it's as simple as that.
6.) I haven't read it in a long time so no comment here.
2.) They sold worse than Mazda expected. They didn't hit their first years sales goals and the first few years had production outpacing demand by a good amount which led to cars sitting on lots for a long time and having to be deeply discounted to be moved. This killed resale more than anything.
3.) Yeah, there's some misinformation, but Mazda has done plenty to shoot themselves in the foot. They dropped the ball on the cooling and design of the FD. They dropped the ball on the horsepower ratings more than once with the RX-8. Then the video surfaced about the owner surveys and RX-8. Then the recall and a lot of replaced engines. Those are all real problems and have nothing to do with misinformation.
4.) There's nothing perceived about it... The fuel economy is poor. It might be somewhat close to cars like the Z or G35, but look at the straight line performance and horsepower of those heavier cars, and then consider they still often get better mileage. Don't fool yourself, sportscar owners still care about gas mileage. Now more than ever with the current and forecasted price of gas.
5.) Numbers aside, if you're used to having good torque down low the RX-8 will feel a little doggy, it's as simple as that.
6.) I haven't read it in a long time so no comment here.
04-07-2008 | 05:16 PM
#100
Grand Chancellor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 58
From: Home of the NIMBYs
