View Poll Results: Would you have preordered if Mazda said the RX-8 was 220 hp, not 250?
Yes- the rest of the package is good enough, and it\'s a rotary!
36
30.77%
Yes, but for $25k loaded, not $30k. I wouldn\'t spend $30k for a 220hp Mazda.
42
35.90%
Nope. Performance is important- I want all 250 ponies present and accounted for.
39
33.33%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll
Would you have preordered at 220hp?
#26
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Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
Maybe my comments were harsh, and I never implied you to be a troll, a mustang hermit would be more appropriate. Throughout your posts you mention the RX8 has no power, probably good enough for your wife, and mutiple mention of your manly cobra. (A very fine machine in its own right). Many people who drive a Rotary for test drives or for a short periods of time,(me for one many years ago) drive them with preconcieved notions of a piston driven machine. This innate misconception ingrained in us by Ford, GM, Dodge, Honda, and many others, is that at or around 4500 or 5000 RPM you need to be thinking seriously about shifting. Right assupmtion for your Cobra, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG assumption for the one and only rule breaking Mazda rotary. It is at the 4 to 5K RPM in the rotary that you start to play, have fun, get real happy, and most of all, learn to respect the amazing difference between a rotary engine and its conventional counterpart. Most are afraid to make the jump, very few who do return to the status quo. No disrespect intended lethalchem. I wish you all of the fun and driving enjoyment I am currently having. Zoom, Zoom.
Maybe my comments were harsh, and I never implied you to be a troll, a mustang hermit would be more appropriate. Throughout your posts you mention the RX8 has no power, probably good enough for your wife, and mutiple mention of your manly cobra. (A very fine machine in its own right). Many people who drive a Rotary for test drives or for a short periods of time,(me for one many years ago) drive them with preconcieved notions of a piston driven machine. This innate misconception ingrained in us by Ford, GM, Dodge, Honda, and many others, is that at or around 4500 or 5000 RPM you need to be thinking seriously about shifting. Right assupmtion for your Cobra, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG assumption for the one and only rule breaking Mazda rotary. It is at the 4 to 5K RPM in the rotary that you start to play, have fun, get real happy, and most of all, learn to respect the amazing difference between a rotary engine and its conventional counterpart. Most are afraid to make the jump, very few who do return to the status quo. No disrespect intended lethalchem. I wish you all of the fun and driving enjoyment I am currently having. Zoom, Zoom.
I agree with you completely about the need for high revs on the RX-8, which takes us back to my thoughts about the gas milage that I was trying to suggest in my post a few posts up. While test driving the Rx-8, the salesman actually told me to drive it like I would my own car, so I did:p . It kicked second out fairly well.
I like to think of myself as an individual who has an open mind, and I thoroughly enjoy learning about other vehicles. I can assure you that I'd not consider buying a car for my wife if I thought there was something wrong with it. I had much more fun driving the 8 than I did the WRX, even though the Subaru felt faster (I'm sure that's only due to the low end torque). There is no topping the style of the RX-8, and the comfort/interior of the Mazda is completely in another league altogether.
I've never been one to leave a car stock anyway, so the speed isn't so much of an issue to me as long as there's room for mods. Do you expect the 8 to have any difficulties pulling more power from it? I know the RX-7 was easy, but that was because of the turbo. If they could have kept the HP rating the same for both AT and MT, then I probably wouldn't be worried about it.
#27
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Originally posted by RX-Hachi
The June Best Car's (Japanese car mag) test results of the 250 ps vs. 210 ps versions of the RX-8 seem very odd. Both cars got about the same time for 0-100km/h (0-62mph) and 0-400m (Japan's 1/4 mi.) What's more the 0-100km/h of 7 secs is way off the pace for the 250 ps high power. Perhaps it's not just the US models with a power shortage...
http://www.artex.co.jp/Pages/Car/RX-...03_6-26_03.jpg
The June Best Car's (Japanese car mag) test results of the 250 ps vs. 210 ps versions of the RX-8 seem very odd. Both cars got about the same time for 0-100km/h (0-62mph) and 0-400m (Japan's 1/4 mi.) What's more the 0-100km/h of 7 secs is way off the pace for the 250 ps high power. Perhaps it's not just the US models with a power shortage...
http://www.artex.co.jp/Pages/Car/RX-...03_6-26_03.jpg
#28
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Originally posted by Chuck Clifford
No disrespect intended lethalchem. I wish you all of the fun and driving enjoyment I am currently having. Zoom, Zoom.
No disrespect intended lethalchem. I wish you all of the fun and driving enjoyment I am currently having. Zoom, Zoom.
#29
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With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.
You know, if we find out that there is NOTHING wrong with our cars (HP wise), this forum will be responsible for ALL of the bad press being leaked out; and WE will be solely responsible for the devaluation of our own car. Shame on us!
We all need to calm down, quiet down and see how Mazda responds before WE kill the rotary!
You know, if we find out that there is NOTHING wrong with our cars (HP wise), this forum will be responsible for ALL of the bad press being leaked out; and WE will be solely responsible for the devaluation of our own car. Shame on us!
We all need to calm down, quiet down and see how Mazda responds before WE kill the rotary!
#31
Originally posted by jonalan
With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.
You know, if we find out that there is NOTHING wrong with our cars (HP wise), this forum will be responsible for ALL of the bad press being leaked out; and WE will be solely responsible for the devaluation of our own car. Shame on us!
We all need to calm down, quiet down and see how Mazda responds before WE kill the rotary!
With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.
You know, if we find out that there is NOTHING wrong with our cars (HP wise), this forum will be responsible for ALL of the bad press being leaked out; and WE will be solely responsible for the devaluation of our own car. Shame on us!
We all need to calm down, quiet down and see how Mazda responds before WE kill the rotary!
Good post. I agree with you 100%
The real injustice is that there are 2-3 posters here that either decided against the RX-8 earlier (before the dyno controversy) or never intended to buy it in the first place, and they are the ones that are making the most noise about the so-called missing HP. I won't name names, but most people that reads through these threads can pick them out. Real shame.
In addition I agree with people that think like MPester. If the car ends up getting the performance results, why get hung up about the HP numbers? Before some of the dyno results came out, all you heard was how much everyone liked how fast it was, or how much power there was. Now all you hear is that there COULD be up to 23% hp loss to the wheels, and this car is now a POS slug of an automobile. NOTHING changed to make this car slower between then and now, EXCEPT for the suspected HP numbers, and that perception in some people's minds.
Last edited by RX-8 Zoomster; 08-05-2003 at 09:45 PM.
#32
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Originally posted by jonalan
With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.
With all the freaking out people are doing on this forum in regards to the "alleged" lack of HP, I'm happy to see that 70% of us would STILL have preordered the car at 220hp.
I agree with the above post, let's see some real life 1/4 mile times and that will tells us how fast the car is. But what about that Japanese mag getting almost exact acceleration times for BOTH the 210ps and 250ps versions? How do you explain that?
Also, I hope you are not including me in one of those "two or three" people that are "stirring" the pot. If you look at the poll there are a lot more concerned owners than three. The only reason I would like to get to the bottom of this is because I'm very serious about the 8 being my next car next spring and I would like it to have the advertised 247hp.
#33
Originally posted by Quick_lude
But what about that Japanese mag getting almost exact acceleration times for BOTH the 210ps and 250ps versions? How do you explain that?
But what about that Japanese mag getting almost exact acceleration times for BOTH the 210ps and 250ps versions? How do you explain that?
Originally posted by Quick_lude
Also, I hope you are not including me in one of those "two or three" people that are "stirring" the pot. If you look at the poll there are a lot more concerned owners than three. The only reason I would like to get to the bottom of this is because I'm very serious about the 8 being my next car next spring and I would like it to have the advertised 247hp.
Also, I hope you are not including me in one of those "two or three" people that are "stirring" the pot. If you look at the poll there are a lot more concerned owners than three. The only reason I would like to get to the bottom of this is because I'm very serious about the 8 being my next car next spring and I would like it to have the advertised 247hp.
I do agree that Mazda needs to provide some comforting answers for those like you that are in the market for the RX-8.
But honestlly, if the car got 6 sec 0-60 times, would you care if the rear hp was only 187 instead of 207? Like I said before I'm not hung up about the HP numbers, as long as the car turns performance times like the magazine reviews. If it does turn out there is that much loss (23%) to the rear, I would be depressed from the excessive loss. But on the contrary, I would be pretty damned impressed from the performance it is getting on that 187 hp, as compared to cars that are at least 10-20% higher HP.
#34
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I find it kind of strange that a Japanese mag is posting numbers on a car that is not readily available in Japan. The Japanese automatic and 6MT both came with the 210 HP engine, they do not drive a 250 HP version of the RX8. Maybe they were comparing the auto and 6 MT Japanese version cars that are both 210 HP, thus giving them similar numbers.
#35
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Originally posted by RX-8 Zoomster
But honestlly, if the car got 6 sec 0-60 times, would you care if the rear hp was only 187 instead of 207?
But honestlly, if the car got 6 sec 0-60 times, would you care if the rear hp was only 187 instead of 207?
I want Mazda to deliver what we all paid for! Are you reading this Mazda? Why have a carbon graphite driveshaft, an aluminum hood, etc...? I want the 250 hp to go along with all that. If you don't, fine. I do.
I'm picking mine up this week, hopefully today. I just want all 250 horses under that aluminum hood! I paid for them, so I want all 250 of them. It's only right and fair. I can handle the problems that come with it, but only if Mazda owns-up to them and fixes the problem in whatever way is deemed acceptable by all. Fisrt thing is they gotta start the communication flowing here. It's amazing to me how they can remain so darned silent!
#36
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Some of you may or may not know that a similar problem happened with the Cobra in 1999. As more owners dynod, it was evident that there was 20hp missing. Ford put out a recall, and the intake was replaced with the proper one, fixing the problem. I find this encouraging, and perhaps there would be a similar recall on the RX-8 IF they did indeed find a descrepency. I doubt anyone would really care that Mazda didn't speak up about it, as long as they fixed the problem in the end.
As for me, I'm just disapointed they had to limit the rpms on the automatic. All new (meaning new chasis design/first year released) vehicles will have little bugs to iron out. I just wish it was in another area because I know we (wife and I) won't want to wait to buy the car, but I also know that Mazda will fix the problem and bump the AT HP up where it belongs in the next year or two..then I'll be grumpy:p .
As for me, I'm just disapointed they had to limit the rpms on the automatic. All new (meaning new chasis design/first year released) vehicles will have little bugs to iron out. I just wish it was in another area because I know we (wife and I) won't want to wait to buy the car, but I also know that Mazda will fix the problem and bump the AT HP up where it belongs in the next year or two..then I'll be grumpy:p .
#38
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Re: re
Originally posted by MPester
Car magazines have tested 0-60 in 5.9 sec. So, I don't care if it's 220 or 247hp for the 5.9sec. I am still getting it.
Car magazines have tested 0-60 in 5.9 sec. So, I don't care if it's 220 or 247hp for the 5.9sec. I am still getting it.
RX8-U-UP:
You are wrong about the 250PS 6MT not being available in Japan - do a search before making such statements:
Originally posted by JSG
In Japan we have:
base - cheapest 5 sp manual (210ps)
E-type - no classic Jaguar but a 4 sp auto (again 210ps)
S-type - 250ps 6 sp manual
John
In Japan we have:
base - cheapest 5 sp manual (210ps)
E-type - no classic Jaguar but a 4 sp auto (again 210ps)
S-type - 250ps 6 sp manual
John
Last edited by pelucidor; 08-06-2003 at 11:33 AM.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JSG
In Japan we have:
base - cheapest 5 sp manual (210ps)
E-type - no classic Jaguar but a 4 sp auto (again 210ps)
S-type - 250ps 6 sp manual
You may think Japan has three versions of cars, but they all get the same numbers, that can't happen. Sound like a standard 5 speed, standard six speed, and an auto four speed duking it out with the same 210 HP engine.
Originally posted by JSG
In Japan we have:
base - cheapest 5 sp manual (210ps)
E-type - no classic Jaguar but a 4 sp auto (again 210ps)
S-type - 250ps 6 sp manual
You may think Japan has three versions of cars, but they all get the same numbers, that can't happen. Sound like a standard 5 speed, standard six speed, and an auto four speed duking it out with the same 210 HP engine.
#40
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Yep, but one of those 210PS engines should be making 250PS - that's the problem in a nutshell.
I don't THINK this - I KNOW that in Japan the S-type with 6MT has 250PS (247HP) according to Mazda, and several on this forum have bought one since it was released there in April. Where is you evidence?
Do you really think that Mazda will offer a 250PS 6MT car to the rest of the world and not in their own country where emissions regs are much more lax and most cars make more HP than in the USA (e.g. a 240HP S2000 in the USA makes 250HP in Japan).
I don't THINK this - I KNOW that in Japan the S-type with 6MT has 250PS (247HP) according to Mazda, and several on this forum have bought one since it was released there in April. Where is you evidence?
Do you really think that Mazda will offer a 250PS 6MT car to the rest of the world and not in their own country where emissions regs are much more lax and most cars make more HP than in the USA (e.g. a 240HP S2000 in the USA makes 250HP in Japan).
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I know this sounds redundant. Everything that seems to be happening, sounds like the indications descibed when the third ports were not being used, either by programming error or mechanical failure. A 247 HP engine without its third ports operating is essentially a 210 HP engine. Or even worse, as some results have shown, if the ECU starts dumping fuel in anticipation of ports openning, and they don't, that could explain the lag some people feel at the point where they should feel a surge. The less than optimum performance specs in the band where performance should be peaking is another indication of this problem. As opposed to the 210 HP engine, where the ECU and ports are working perfectly, according to the mapping and controls that are set up. Those long ago threads and magazine articles that talk about a kick when the third ports open up, I don't feel. It doesn't feel bad, it just dosn't feel as described. My money's on another third port error, either by design, or otherwise. I'm getting close to 1500 miles, so I will soon put the design alternative to rest. Partial Zoom, Partial Zoom.
#42
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More knowledgeable people than you and I have debated this at length already. Compaddicts dyno graph shows the tertiary ports opening at the correct rpm (small blip on curve) - the graph itself is as expected up to 6000rpm but above that it has the right shape but is not steep enough. A/F ratio is the current most likely culprit (see Paul Yaw's comments - we are not worthy!) which might be be modifiable via ECU update (it might even happen automatically at, say, 5000 miles).
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