rotary crazy

you cant compare a rotary car with a piston car, the development of the rotary engine is much slower because of the # produce and how much money can be spend in R&D, and even with that in mind mazda makes a lot more concept cars with rotary engines than piston engines.

There is no reason why mazda cant do a 3 rotor renesis RX-8 other than cost, a 3 rotor rx-8 would cost more than $35,000, the engine is the easy part, the rest of the car has to be beef up to go with more torque, HP and heat, better brakes, transmision, suspension, ignition system, etc. All have to be change


MPG? Well if you put a 3 rotor in the rx-8 as it is you would get less than 10 mpg but if you change some things, you can get as good as 16/20 mpg

How? It is really simple in fact, a few thing can be tried out for example, smaller primary injectors, smaller primary ports for low rpm and cruising, lower gear rations on the trans as well as a lower final drive ratio 3.90 or even lower depending on the hp and torque that the engine makes. If some of you think none of this would make a change get a v8 and fit it with a 4.44 rear end and an rx-8 trans an drive around, lets see what mpg you can get

snizzle

Ok, so Mazda has a niche car that doesn't make that much money for them (compared to the rest of their lineup).... and they'll spend much more money on R&D to get little in return. Unfortunately the bean counters don't like that situation.

35-40K RX8 anyone? Oh and that's probably not the GT model.

It's easy to say oh look at this concept car, it's a rotary and has 1 inch thick cardboard seats. Sometimes it's just another way to grab attention which is what concept cars are about.

I'm not saying Mazda won't continue the development of the rotary, but I don't see a 35K 3 rotor in the future.

rotary crazy

I dont think it will

KoHC

I doubt it'll happen.

Assume Mazda build 3 rotor, next gen RX-8, the price will jump to about 40k MSRP for base model. And let's assume we will have 300hp and just slightly lower MPG (14?). We will hear the same complain as what we're hearing now, "MPG sucks for a 300hp car", "I wish this car has the same hp as corvette/Shelby GT500/whatever", "why don't they give us turbo/sc?"... etc.

With current automotive trend, they only way for Mazda to bring out 3 rotor engine is to figure out a way to increase MPG to "acceptable" level. And honestly, I don't see anyone willing to purchase a 300hp car that can only do 12~14MPG.

rotary crazy

mazda will improve the renesis with DI, refresh the look of the car and thats it for the next model, if a mazdaspeed does come out I think it will have a modest bump in HP and the usual suspension twicks

DONT EXPECT MUCH MORE THAN THAT

KoHC

Come to think of it, if they add direct injection for the next model, any chance to fit that into our 8?

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

You people kill me. The man offered up a suggestion to MNAO. And you all beat him down for it. I have lost all confidence in (most) of the people that replied to this thread.
GOOD GOD.

saturn

You're the boss!

dbright007

Got the same feeling as I was reading this thread.

mwc

Dear Mazda,

Please do this.

The Renesis is already a great engine, it just happens to be stuck in a car that is too heavy to give the same oomph as its closest competitors. There's no need to go to a 3-rotor or use forced induction. Just put it in a lighter car. The savings in development money can then be applied towards refining the Renesis. (i.e. working on emissions so that it doesn't have to run so rich, improving efficiency (mpg) in general, making it less prone to flooding, tweaking torque vs. rpm to give us a little more beans below 3k, etc....)

The RX-8 s still an excellent sports car that is practical at the same time. There's no need to dump it. It can live on in its second generation with the 2.3 litre turbo (with appropriate re-name).

Cheers

snizzle

Oh, i'm sorry.... didn't realize we couldn't critique ideas here. I now agree with everyone that says anything.

saturn

snizzle smells like poop!

snizzle

I knew something like that was coming, haha

½mv²

Just a little side note concerning Mazda prototypes & rotaries:

One of the many dork magazines I have a subscription to (Popular science/Popular Mechanics/etc.) had an interesting section about the future of the automotive industry, and some of the 2010 prototypes that look promising. One of them was the Mazda Mirage.

The Mirage is intended to mark the turning point for the Mazda Motor Company. Current plans are for the Mirage to the first step in converting all of Mazda's body designs to sleek, fuel-efficent, biodynamics. So far, the Mirage prototype has been displayed and designed to house several different types of engines, none of which have been the conventional gasoline powered genre. The typical concept-car-cameo-alternative-fuels have all made their appearances: electric, hybrids, hydrogen - but the one that's been stirring up the most buzz has been Mazda's very unique hybrid rotary.
Mazda's reputation for developing a strong line-up of one-of-a-kind vehicles (the turbocharged soccer mom from hell CX7, the legendary immortal roadster MX-5 miata, the piston-free cornering machine RX8) makes the new Mirage, with it's unique curves and razor profile, the perfect candidate for the next generation in the RX bloodline.





While, personally, I don't think the rotary hybrid will ever exist anywhere except on paper, it does show that Mazda has no intention of abandoning the RX. I think if you look back over Mazda's history with the rotary, you'll see that Mazda's engineers love that engine as much as we do.
The 20b 3-rotor was a hunk of ****. It was the first attempt at a mass-production rotary car, and it failed in every sense of the word, and probably a few more. Did they stop there? Did they say "well, that sucked; let's not do that again!"? Nope - they came back several years later and introduced the 1st gen RX7. Once again, a complete hunk of ****. Not only was it less powerful, but it still broke just as quickly. But they still had hopes for it... very high hopes. They strained their brains to fix every issue that technology would allow them to, straped a turbo on it, and delivered an out-of-the-blue swift kick in the dick to Porche with the 2nd Gen RX7. It was the fastest, most efficient, most reliable rotary ever marketed. Time for Mazda to retire while still in the #1 seat, right? GUESS AGAIN! Porche was down for the count - it was time to go after bigger fish!
So the engineers got together and designed a frame so brilliant, so flawless, and so beautiful that 15 years later it STILL looks more futuristic than every other car out on the market. They modified their already-phenomenal engine to output even MORE power, and then strapped a second turbo onto it just for good measure. Ladies & Gentlemen, please meet the most amazing vehicle ever constructed: FD.
Unfortuneately, the rotary still had a reputation about it, and despite all of its improvements, it just couldn't reach the 100,000mile mark being driven the way people wanted to drive it. Mazda finally hung up the rotary gloves, begrudingly accepting the fact that the rotary just didn't have a place under the average driver's hood....

...flash 7 years into the future...

...We have the technology.
...We can rebuild him...
...Faster...
...Stronger...
...Smarter...

Mazda opened up it's old locker, blew the dust off it's gloves, and agreed that it was time for Wenkel to return. Say hello to the best rotary ever built: "Renisis"







I mean, if you look at the facts, Mazda is hellbent on the rotary. Sales have sucked ever since day one. When Mazda came clean about the horsepower, TONS of owners returned their cars. And those that held on to them didn't bother to learn how to take care of them, and flooded them on a weekly basis, creating tons of bad press. The rotary was under heavy scrutiny due to their 20+ year long rep of being gas-guzzling, oil-burning, time bombs. When the recall was made for the starters... well... that was "strike 3" and the Renisis was instantly filed under "time-bombs" with it's other 13b bretheren.
But let's face it - this engine is still new. It's *WAY* too soon in the game to know if they're hopeless or not. I have about 65,000 miles on mine, and it's one of the 1st generation 04 models. It's pretty much needed all the recalls done with the exception of needing a whole new motor. Ever since then, however, this car has required ZERO maintenance and has never made me drip a drop of sweat over mechanical problems... and I'm not gentle with her, either! Rain or shine, hot or cold, highway or driveway, asphalt or dirt - I'm ALWAYS driving "spirited." Not one, single, simple problem. And based on what I've read from everyone else on these boards, Mazda did a top-notch job with the Renisis. I mean, everyone is having the exact same problems, and Mazda knows exactly how to fix them!

So in 201X when Mazda rolls out the RX-9, the new-age 13b will come standard with the known issues already resolved. No flooding, no hard starts, no aquatic tail light, no rattles, no marbles, and no loss of power with age. And for all you nay-sayers, out there, please explain to me why this isn't a logical possibility. So far the only "unsolvable", or "still occurs after I got it 'fixed'" issue with this engine is the flooding, which for the record wouldn't be a problem if people took the time to read the first 10 lines of the "Things everyone should know about their RX8" pamphlet that came with the car.
What other problems has the Renisis displayed? 80% of this forum loves flaunting how they redline the engine at least 6 times a day, as well as how they attempt to tripod the car around every turn. And how many miles do these people have on their engines? 48k? 52k? 36k? Please, find me a 350Z, or S2000, or STI, or Evo that gets redlined on an hourly basis, cranked around every turn, and only needs an oil change in return.
Face it - the rotary isn't going anywhere. It's got a bad rep, so it's not going to be popular anytime during our lives, but I'll be damned if it isn't showing potential to raise the bar in the reliability department. My dad has a lexus with 64k miles on it. It was showing ZERO problems when he took it to the shop for it's 60k checkup. They found worn down belts, tearing hoses, rusting wires, collecting ooze, and a bunch of other "wear'n'tear" work that wasn't covered by waranty. Total cost: $2200. My dad is almost 80 years old. He babies that car and takes textbook care of it. I'm 25 years old and I drive my RX8 like I'm 16, and the only thing I do is watch the oil levels. My 60k checkup totaled less than $500, and I didn't get the %50 off of labor that Lexus offers on scheduled maintenance.





.... Holy Jesus mother of GOD that post was long... I had no idea I was that bored...

saturn

^ I usually hate long posts, but your casual and liberal use of obscenities in the beginning really sold me. Haha, I'm a giant idiot.

snizzle

Krankor

I get the same feeling reading most threads around here.

User24

iTrader: (1)

I'm in, as long as a 3 rotor RX8 does not look like the sperm whale Nagare. I have seen Mazda's photos showing off their new designs, and feel very uneasy about what an RX8 redesign would mean.

The whole "organic" and "motion" vibe they are pushing with their concepts only means flatter and more conservative features. I don't care how aerodynamic a ladybug is, I wouldn't drive one.

Was it Mazda engineers who said the RX8 dimensions were only possible due to the small engine? So what does that mean for its appearance if using a larger 3 rotor engine?

SmokeyTheBalrog

My understanding is that they main advantage of a rotary is size. It's a small engine, fitting a non-rotary into the current Rx8 platform would again require chassis cutting and would still end up destroying the 50/50 balance we have.

If they could manage to shove in a piston engine that made more hp/tq and would also get more mpg. Do all that without messing up anything else in the car. They would probably sell significantly more 8's.

On the other hand if the had something like that there would be no point in having a rotary in any of their cars.

marvin_rock

I'm all about any HP gains I can get from Mazda. I know for a fact with the exception of the motorcycle I plan on buying I will buy Mazda for life. Mostly because of a deal I made with the devil. Xmas night @ like 10pm my clutch went out on me last year, I was in the middle of nowhere, I called Mazda roadside assistance, I said as the phone was ringing, if they can help me I'll never buy another brand (cept my motorcycle and my viper). What do you know, they hooked me up and it all got taken care of.

But I got the car because of the way it handles and looks. I would LOVE to have some more straight line power, but the car is so refined and perfect, I'm content currently. I do however expect more out of the next gen Rx-8 or whatever replacement comes out of it.

I don't disagree with you at all, however say Mazda does whip out a 3-rotor FI Rx-8, you trading yours in just because of that? I wouldn't. Just a thought.

snizzle

I think many of us are ready for Mazda to update something on the 8 aside from new keys and colors. It's time in the theoretical lifecycle for something to happen. You have to improve the car as the competition does.

I think it's a great idea to communicate these wishes to Mazda, but it won't stop us from giving our .02 about said ideas.

skillmaker

I really have to agree with you Snizzle. The whole point of this was not intended to get Mazda to do everything my way, but just to let Mazda know that we are out here and still interested in the possibilities of the RX.

In my initial post here, I basically said, if you you want Super or Turbo charged, or whatever, then let MNAO know! I like the idea of a three rotor, others don't. That's fine. If you want big fins and 24 inch wheels, okay (not for me, but hey, have fun with it). But we should all communicate with MNAO just to make sure we aren't forgotten.

Look what a write in campaign did for the Mustang.

Panzer1939

Don't underestimate the power of the club! I used to be in the Subaru Impreza Owners Club and the designers (from Japan) of the last generation WRX came to meet with our club for suggestions after they found us on the web. Suggestion #1 was to get rid of the bug eye headlights. Gone!

saturn

Trust me, Mazda knows all about our little club after the whole Mulligan-gate issue. If they want ideas they know where to find us.

Design1stCode2nd

I kinda like the bug eye.