Panzer1939

Some do like the bugeye, however for those of us that fell in love with the 1st gens, it was just too drastic of a change. I had a 2000 2.5 RS before I bought the 8 and loved that car. The 8 grows on me every day though...

Icemark

Perhaps you don't know all the history, but when Porsche was being run by a North American born CEO in the late 80's, they were so impressed with the 2nd gen RX-7 that they were talking with Mazda to build a 924/944 replacement. It would have been a FC/P747 with updated body work, suspension and using a Porsche built turbo 4 cyl.

Then the recession hit and Porsche BOD fired the CEO and killed all non Porsche products.


No, that was unrelated at all. The reason the FD failed was not reliability or emissions, or insurance or any like that. Too this day the FD failed because of cost. It was too expensive. Even the later sales (early 90s) of the FC were caught in that trap.

When the FC was starting at under $12,000 and fully loaded with every possible option still less than $25,000 Mazda sold a ton of them. More than 70,000 world wide in 86. But the higher price the FC got (eventually you could barely buy even the strippy base non turbo for under $20,000- and the Turbo models were near $30,000) the more sales tanked.

Then you bring out the FD which started at $40,000 (in 1990 dollars) for an average equipped model, and now you pushed the RX out of the price of the average sports car buyer. Fully loaded the FD was near $45,000.

How many RX-8's would Mazda have sold if they started at $40,000? today. Very few.

The person buying a FD was the yuppies that today would be buying a 335i or similar car with a $80,000 + year income.

Yet the person that bought a FC was the kid that made $25,000 a year. Same for the FE (RX-8)... the average owner has an income of $50,000 a year... not $80,000.

That is why the FD tanked and why the FC and FE have sold well.

And Mazda knew they screwed up. The P007 (which is what the name the RX-8 was originally designed under) was first developed in the early 90s as a replacement for the FD along side the RX-01. If the recession didn't hit in the early 90s, you would probably seen both the two door RX-01 and the new 4 door RX-7 (later re-named the RX-8 by the Ford exec then running Mazda).

And the rotary never stopped production since it started. The FD just didn't get sold in North America and most of Europe again because they were not buying that type of expensive sports cars in those markets. But the 13BREW rotary was still in production and sold overseas until the FE replaced it with the Reni.

Krankor

I don't disagree with any of that. I just in general find that too much bandwidth is spent around here bashing posts and posters. One can put in .02 without being mean-spirited about it. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, or even necessarily to this thread in particular. Just a general observation.

ASH8

You won't see a 3 rotor RX-8..

1. Cost
2. MPG
3. Emissions.

The RENESIS IS Mazda's new Rotary....most of us know they have been developing this engine for 40 years and IMO have gone about as far as they can, apart from duel fuel.

Only a low boost turbo can be used for a FI RENESIS...reliabilty again, then the old MPG and Emissions pop's up again.

The 8 has been a success WORLDWIDE no matter what others believe.
Its still has to be price competitive.

IMO the RX-8's life will cease in 2012...sadly maybe sooner in some countries.

High oil/fuel prices have once again kicked ALL manufacturers in the *** that make V8's and Mazda's rotary.

HISTORY IS REPEATING ITSELF HERE....

ASH8

Your Right on ICEMARK!

½mv²

To be honest, I had no idea that Porche and Mazda were working together. I was led to beleive that the RX-7 was Mazda's way of sticking it to Porche. Now that I know that, I'm actually less impressed by the FC... thanks for tarnishing my memories of my first car


As for the factor that price played in sales, I was aware of that. After re-reading my long-*** rant I can see how I could have easily come off as ignorant to that fact. The reason I left all of that information out of my post was because I wasn't trying to make a point about sales or number of rotaries on the road - I was focused solely on the engine's reputation.
I've never driven a Ferrari. I've never driven a Corvette. I've never been in a formula car. I've never even SEEN a NASCAR in person. And I'm not alone - in fact I'm far from it. Despite my lack of first hand experience, I (as well as the thousands of others that share my lack of exposure) still know that Ferrari's drive like dreams, corvettes are jaw-dropping experiences, formula car's can pull enough g's to make the act of breathing a challenge, and NASCARs are scary as hell because they bounce and slide all over the place.
My point is that while only a select few people actually purchased these cars, simple word-of-mouth spread their reputations like wildfire to anyone willing to listen.



I'm not trying to pass my opinions off as cold-hard fact, either. I'm just drawing conclusions from observations. Even still, I don't see how anyone can think my comments are "out of line", "too harsh", or "overly negative." Have you ever met someone who never owned an RX, but knew what a rotary engine was (doesn't count if you were the one that told them) and DIDN'T also think they were all unreliable? When you say "FD", "FC", or "Renisis" they stare back at you like deer in headlights - they didn't research them or learn the different iterations, they just know that the topic of rotary engines has always led to the topic of mechanical disaster.
Google "Engine flooding" and click the "I'm feeling lucky" button. When the page loads you'll find yourself reading about RX-8s.
Google "RX-7 reliability" and you'll find that the first 20 searches consist purely of angry reviews, people bitching about how their new engine is already dead, and entire websites devoted to bitching about the 13b. You'll also find that ZERO of those finds are talking about any RX7 other than the FD.

I mean, I know I probably rag on the 13b (all of them) more than any other member/owner here, but it's not because I don't like them! I love rotaries, and I hope I never have to drive a piston-engine car again! If Mazda were to recall all RX-8s saying that the engines are complete ****, and they'll give me a brand new Speed3 as an appology, know what I'd do? I'd ask them to just give me a voucher for 2 new engines & transmissions for my RX-8; redeemable at my disgression.

Please stop sending me PMs telling me that I'm a "hater", or an *******, or "the kind of person that makes it impossible to help change the image of the rotary." Trust me guys, the big-wigs @ Mazda are not making their decisions based on what some ADHD-ridden college grad spent 20 minutes bitching about online when he should have been working... Especially one who has purchased 3 RXs in the past 5½ years.

ASH8

Mate, can't you read....

The FC RX-7 was already out, it was PORSCHE who approached MAZDA not the other way around..in the end NOTHING happened, so your memories of your first car remain, Porsche were so impressed they spoke to Mazda.

Razz1

Write write scribble scribble........

PhotoMunkey

What most people doing "reliability" searches on the internet fail to recognize is that the RX-8 is an f-ing BRILLIANT car for a base price of $25k. Yes, I'm biased because I live in a warm climate, got my "engine oiling" reflash done only weeks after getting my 2006 Base 6MT, and aside from having both visors replaced, haven't seen a Mazda dealer again!

If you need more power than this on the street, you've got many future speeding tickets to pay! Yes, straight-line speed and power could be better, but is an old-school 3-rotor really the answer? What would a street-tuned, reliable 3-rotor put out over the RENESIS 13B? 60 more horsepower realistically? Wouldn't they keep to the theoretical 280 horsepower limit in Japan? Torque would improve, so acceleration numbers would drop, but to say that this would make the car THAT much better are simply ludicrous.

Want your RX-8 to be faster? Buy some forged wheels, 245 series 18" tires, and two-piece, aluminum hat rotors. Remove as much rotating weight as you can from the driveline (install a lightweight flywheel). You'll be out far less money than a 3-rotor RX-8 would cost over your regular RX-8.

Think of it another way. Mazdaspeed built a supercharged RX-8 back in 2004, and yet, it's never been released. I personally don't think Ford will allow it because it's "competition" for the S197 Mustang.