ZGlide

Hey check this one out guys.....www.msn.com headline today said the 2005 RX-8 was on the top 10 list that will hold it's value in the next 5 years. Another brownie point the the 8!

aireyc

Do you have a link to that? It's now tomorrow and I don't know where it is.

Chris

tdoane78

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....rc=LP%20luxury

aireyc

Thanks! Very cool since I'm going to be buying one soon.

Chris

mjd

They said the same thing about the '04s. From those of us who have looked in to trading in our '04s, I'm sure we can all agree that the 8 may actually be in the bottom 10 for cars that hold value well. Granted there will be WAY less '05s available, their claim may be a little more believable, but I still have my doubts.

MazdaspeedRx8

The rebates just kill the resale value.
You can see from companies like Honda have strong resale value its because they do not have any rebates. S2000 i.e great resale value.

VikingDJ

No doubt over-production causing these rebates destroyed the value of the 04 RX8, and made it depreciate FAST. I forsee the 05 model taking a big hit as well, although not as bad as 04. I do believe the 05 will suffer because of the 04, since it's the same exact car. If they can even out the supply and demand before the 06 comes out, the 05 will be respectable, but putting this car on the top ten list for retaining's value currently is a crock, and they have no way of knowing what will happen. I don't think it's possible for the 05 to make top ten when all is said and done. This is like predicting a football team to win superbowl before start of new season, after they had a dismal previous season. We shall see.

salituro64

Guys, guys (gals)...everyone is getting too worked up over the depreciation of the 04s. I have had many new cars in the last twenty years and any car is going to take the biggest hit in the first year. Give it 2-3 years to see where the value holds up. I believe it will. There is a reason that the report says holding value after 5 years, not one or even two years. Be patient, if you need to off load a 2004 car in 2005 , then take your lumps and move on. Welcome to new car ownership. This is why short term owners choose to lease. Buying only pans out when you keep the car for several years and even then you are still going to lose money.

DreRX8

Exactly--My stepbrother is in the process of offloading his deceased mother's 2004 Mercedes E320--for $40,000. She paid $52,000 for it. Any car is going to take a hit after the first year. Honestly, I see used 2004s going for about $24K which is pretty good. Of course the dealer is going to try and rape you anyway on a trade. If you plan on owning a car for a short time--leasing is the way to go.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

One of out local dealers, Roto Mazda, is offering a 04 RX8 \ 6spd for 21K. This probably dosn't have any options, but that is going to kill the resale. Then again, maybe you could by this car and sell it as used and make a profit? Naaaa.

RotoRooter

The Rx8 is not loosing value faster than any other car out there . . . do your research and READ about depreciation before flaming up a great car.

Most cars drop to 70-80% of their value in the first model year. As all should know, base cars do better on resell in terms of percent but are harder to find the person who is willing to buy that car without options. Hence, a totally optioned out 8 like mine with GT and Navi will appear to "depreciate" more since I jammed almost $6000 in options into it. There is a greater market for it, but the percent drop will be greater since options ALL drop faster than the base price of the car. Navi and Sunroof do the best, but easily go down to 55-60% in one year.

Hence a hooked 8 at 34,000, can easily sell at $24,000 (about 70%) On the low end because of the options not holding value (same as Celica, Hummer, Bentley, BMW, does not matter).

Here is the kicker, next year most of these cars will go from 70% to about 60% -- ie not a huge drop at all. The 04 8 hooked up with 30+ miles will go for $20,500. Yes supply and demand and rebates hurt, a does a very competative sports car market, but this resale is still 62.5% at two years rather than the 50% you get from most all American cars and even others (VW historically gets 52.5% --even the Jetta, Passat, and Bug).

So for those of you who dumping the car before it depreciates FASTER, should hold on and enjoy the car. It will not go up in value, but it will drop much slower. Mark my words, print this post, and shove it up my as* if I am wrong. EVERY CAR works this way, rx8 is no better or worse. The only cars that are true investments are the Exotics which are a whole different money game.

Best bet for anyone out there is to buy a 04 8 at 70-75% of new value and enjoy the slow depreciation over the next 3 years while still under warranty. I would do this with every car (financially the smartest move, but I am a "first one on the block" kind of guy so I preorder everything and in return take the deprecaition from 100% to 70-80% on my own as a cost for that privilege)

VikingDJ

If you compare it as a whole, it's taking the kind of hit most cars take. If you compare it to expectations and what was said about it, the depreciation is BAD. I agree that the rx8 hit is large now, but will slow down, and in end will be respectable, but certainly not in top ten like they predicted. That is definitely not happening. I'd say just enjoy your car, because the money is gone, and there's nothing you can do. You;'ll see the trade in value dorp much slower now, and not look as bad as it does now.
Just for comparison, here is my 04 RX8 to my 04 STI. Msrp 36k on RX8, MSRP 32k on STI. 22,000 on trade in on Rx8 with 9500 miles and excellent. STI? $24500 for trade in value with 15,000 and excellent. I'm looking to trade in the STI for a Legacy GT. Even if I wanted to trade in RX8, it would be foolish to do so, because the demand is low, and I'd lose more money, and get low balled on trade. Fact is, I only lost 4500-5k on STI in one year and 15k miles of driving. Call it luck, call it Subaru and their push to top in reliabillity, and now resale and demand. I bought it for 29000. I know I know, the STi is a more limited car, so the demand is higher, but I'm using this as a reference so those who defend and deny the RX8 depreciation in first year. Who would have thought a Subaru would beat out a refined RX8. I didn't because when I researched cars, it had this STI plummeting, and RX8 holding it's own in first year. The truth is, you simply do not know. I'm looking to take advantage of this, because to me getting 15k miles and almost a yera out of STI, and only losing $4500-5000, that's a dream come true. Either way, I can sympathize with those who are discouraged on this first year plummet of RX8, but I believe in end it will be ok. Just get that thought out of your mind that RX8 is a top car in holding it's value, because that is not, and never will be true. Good day.

dwynne

Spoken (or typed) like someone with a used 8 for sale

The truth is - you can buy a new, 0 mile car w/full warranty equipped like yours for about $2k more than what you are asking for a car with 20k miles on it. If someone does not care for the NAV then they could get a new one for the same price as you are asking. You might get your asking price, but only to someone who does not know better or maybe after the 04s are all gone.

If that is not a serious hit in depreciation, when you paid $34k, then I don't know what is.

You are correct, the first year is the worst so it should slow down after this. But with lots of 05s still on the lot the rebate situation could be repeated later on this year and the price of the used 04 and 05 cars will take anouther hit. If Mazda re-vamps the car or the rumor of the turbo MS 8 is true that the "older" cars may drop some more.

On only car the dealer has to deeply discount to sell then no way will the car retain a good value.

Dennis

DemonRX-8

Hell, I'm just happy to be on the list. On a side note, I have two brothers and between the three of us, we own three cars on that list (TL, Cayenne, and I have the 8)!

I don't know what the final outcome will be, but I do believe the RX-8 suffered from a lot of bad PR from the HP issue that hurt its sales and, in turn, resale values for the 04's. I think that this will level off, and in the long run we will see that 8's will hold their value quite well. I'm talking 5+ years now, not first year. Being in a niche market, I think that the 8 will be valued even 10 years down the road. Just look at what FD's in good condition are going for.

VikingDJ

I wouldn't compare a rare low production car like the FD RX7 to an RX8. We are talking mass production vs minimal production. We are also taking a true performer, vs a more practical daily driver. The FD will be a true collector car, and in reality it already is just that. The RX8 will likely never reach that status, and if it does, we may never live to see it. This is what happens when you break away from the limited pure performance aspect, and build a car to a mass public.

cas2themoe

I think once you reach the status of having a Rotary in a car that performs and looks this great it instantly becomes a classic. Well....................... atleast in my eyes.

VikingDJ

If they greatly change and improve the RX8 before it's departure, and majorly limit production on the high end models, which is a strong possibility, you'll see the same thing happen, as in the past. I can't speak for the rx8 as a whole. I can only speak for the 04 and 05 models. There are simply too many of them, and it can get lost in the shadows for the future of the rotary. If the RX8 lives on for many years, especially with this many being sold in US, then the fact that car is at it's early performance stages will severly limit it's appeal. But, hey, if your still have car, and is a true classic to you in 15 years, more power to ya.

apotocki

Wow....and I was really happy and excited to purchase my 'new' 04 on Friday. Now, after reading all this, I'm kinda depressed. I guess the good is that we'll probably keep the car for 5 years.

dwynne

Dealers are doing invoice to $1,000 UNDER invoice for new left over 04s, then take off the $4,000 in rebates. If this is what you paid for your "new" 04 then you are ahead of the game. You have a new, 0 mile car for less than some used 04s are being offered right now.

I think you said you have a long term loan in another thread, I would work on making extra principal payments on it early on to knock some of the payments out to try to keep right side up on the loan "just in case".

Dennis

apotocki

Appreciate the response....actually, yea, I'm probably in good shape as we have the S-plan and then $4,500 in rebates......nice car for 25,100 (and I got them to throw in front strakes!).......as to the loan, no biggy as it is fairly low ($10k). It was just kinda depressing reading this one. But, the same holds true (probably even worse for most) with other cars!

Alan

dwynne

Just curious what the S plan price was on the 04....

I know I have been offered a loaded 04 (GT, NAV, etc) with an MSRP of $34k for around $26.2k which I though was pretty good - with no Mazda/Ford plan to call my own.

Dennis

scottmhr1

Just a note to say that anyone who buys a new car and trys to sell it a minute after they leave the lot is an idiot. First year hit is true on all cars, just sour grapes by those that over extended and find themselves stuck. I have also found many on here exagerating what they really bought the car for. Granted the 04's will go much cheaper but many were dealer driven and when you consider the milage on them they are very close to being used, except for the warrenty. Have not seen any sales figures on the 05's? anyone? Just please let's just not here the whining of people that buy a car and expect to get what the loan they have as a selling point, they were dumb to buy with little to no down payment. If a national organization says it will hold value better than most, believe it, they don't put thier reps on the line just guessing on that stuff!

Ike

Even then compare the FD to its competition of the time, the Supra TT and the 300ZX TT hold their value far better than the FD, especially the Supra and it was produced for longer than the FD and was more readily available.

rudy8

hey, forget the resale and all the comments. im sure you did not buy the car to make money but to have fun. unless you are strange, you will enjoy the car alot and in 5 years your resale will probably be close to other average percentage resale values in the market.

enjoy your 8!

dwynne

Not even Mazda thinks the 8 will hold value well - the MAC residual on a 3 year lease is a lot less than that given by other captive finance companies on comparable cars (G35, Z, S2000). Even the 3rd party banks have the same opinion, the residual from the lease guide they all use shows the same thing - the 8 and the bottom of the list of comparable cars for residual. These folks have more than "their" reps on the line - they have their money on it. If they get it wrong then it costs them big bucks.

If you call around or look on the Internet you can find new, "0" mile 8s for $4,000-$5,000 under dealer invoice - not demos, not loaners - new cars. This means a sport pack MT car will be $21,500-22,500, touring is $23,000-24,000, and gt is $24,000-$25,000. Pretty easy (for the rest of us) to see what that does for resale value of used 04s - really makes them take a hit. Sure, in some areas there are few/none left - but in some areas their are lots. They do TEND to be loaded up cars.....

Go to carsdirect.com and check out their pre-negotiated price for a new 05 8 - this is a no bargain price, just add tax, tags, and title. Using my zip code the prices are $100 UNDER dealer invoice. Carsdirect has a $500 or so fee built into each deal (comes out of the dealer's end) - so the dealer is selling for about $600 under cost. So if you work with the dealer directly, you should be able to save this money. If you opt to lease the 05, there is $2k more incentive money available - so you could be looking at $2,600 under invoice - about $26,700 for a new 05 w/gt.

The bad news: folks that paid full price close to it when the cars first came out are losing a lot more percentage-wise than other similar cars.

The good news: those that are buying the cars NOW at these much reduced prices SHOULD find that they hold a greater percentage of value down the road. If their 8 is worth 1/2 of MSRP in 3 years, but they got it for $7k or more under MSRP then they look a lot better.

I think everyone should quit worrying about about and drive their cars! But don't think that just because someone "predicts" something you can change the facts of the way things are.

Dennis