New Yorker

Thank god I'm not the only one! So there's intelligent life in the universe, after all.

globi

This Mercedes Benz rotary engine with 3 rotors had direct injection 39 years ago:
http://www.der-wankelmotor.de/Fahrze...-wankelmo.html
Obviously Mazda must have known and considered this since the 1960's as well.

You have to keep in mind that a piston engine can increase its compression ratio and therefore benefit from direct injection to a greater extent. The rotary engine on the other hand cannot increase its compression ratio without creating significant drawbacks.
Besides direct injection is not everything, fuel has less time to evaporate and therefore can provoke incomplete combustion. In fact engines with direct fuel injection release about 10 times more particulate matter than conventional fuel engines.

maikelnait

Thing is, when competitors are actually offering more power you should, at least, put out a similar or greater amount.

People who believe in balance and handling would, without a doubt, go for th rx8. Anyhow if mazda is willing to broaden their sales spectrum they really have to take power into account.

Stating that the rx8 can draw circles around other more powerful cars can only convince experienced drivers. They NEED to make this car reach non-believers.

Icemark

hmm, the FE gets about exactly the same or slightly better mileage as every other car I own (99 Tacoma V6, 99 SC300, 2002 BMW X5, 88 RX-7 Convertible, 88 RX-7 10th AE), so I don't think that your "real life" and my "real life" are the same thing.

If you expect a performance sports car to get economy box mileage you should have bought something else, like an economy car.

Josche

This whole thing seems to parallel what's happening in the gaming industry right now. Mazda is like Nintendo. They think you can have a lot of fun by focusing on interface and gameplay. The other guys are like Microsoft and Sony, who are battling it out in a graphical horsepower war. It's unlikely that Nintendo is going to stand much chance rising to the top with their Wii, even if it's got games that are more fun to play.

swiftnet

If Mazda would reduce the 8's weight by at least 300lbs,(goal of 2700lbs) they would show a slight increase in city gas mileage, a slight increase in performance and the handling would improve. All this without modding the engine, so the engineering costs wouldn't be very high.
I think it would be really cool if they had two ecu maps, one would be what we currently use and another would be for off road use only.

Just some thoughts...

Mitch Strickler

[QUOTE=swiftnet]If Mazda would reduce the 8's weight by at least 300lbs,(goal of 2700lbs) they would show a slight increase in city gas mileage, a slight increase in performance and the handling would improve. All this without modding the engine, so the engineering costs wouldn't be very high.

The history of RX8 development that Mazda sent to those of us who ordered early in 2003 gave the design goal for weight as 2,600. Getting rid of the center post added a chunk of weight. The rest of the 400 pound overage, IMO, came because meeting rigidity, crash protection etc. benchmarks with lighter than conventional materials and structures costs lots of money. Until Mazda does a complete redesign of the 8 -- which surely won't be soon, given the low production numbers and use of the basic 8 chassis for MX5, and others to come -- weight cutting on the existing model would be even more expensive.

Sure, weight reduction can do wonders for performance and handling, but not on the cheap. Try paying for a Lotus.

Mitch

Rootski

iTrader: (1)

Competitors to the MX-5 make up to almost twice the power, yet it remains the best-selling roadster ever.

SlayerRX8

Yeah, I'm a Mazda/Nintendo guy myself. Things that are different are sometimes more appealing

Icemark

Best selling Sports Car ever. Sales have long ago exceeded the 911.

robrecht

But not that of the Corvette, just the convertible Corvette. Is the Corvette a "sports car"? Perhaps now more than ever. Now that the weight has started decreasing, it is a very nice hybrid between a muscle car and a hybrid.

Magic8

Actually I can't even think of where to save on weight without adding significant expense. You can switch materials on the body parts but that is very very expensive. The weight is there because of safety and rigidity. Remove those thing and the car become very unattractive.

Personally I wouldn't mind a hybrid RX-8 with a IMA like the one they using on the Honda Civic hybrid. With the inclusion of the battery pack I can put a Thomas Knight ESC!!! A 42 volt system would be nice too, but that is way down the road.

swiftnet

Titanium, carbon fibre and ceramic would lighten the wheels, hood, trunk and nose. Ceramic brake rotors would be lighter then the steel currently used. Replacing all steel bolts with dished head aluminum and/or titanium would drop weight further. A drycell battery is much lighter. Lighter seats are possible. Lighter materials like carbon fibre or aluminum could be used instead of the plastics in the interior.
Are these items expensive?Yes.Is it as expensive as re-engineering the motor?I doubt it. R&D costs would be minimal. Team RX8 has dropped over 300lbs from his RX8, I'm sure Mazda could do the same.

10KRever

To boost sales and to bring in more interest for the car it does need a facelift also some small engine tweaks and changes to gear ratios to add a small bump in power performance and fuel efficiency would be good as well. I would aso like to see the suspension and chassis upgrades from the shinka become standard and a few other changes made to improve handling. And finally to boost sales and image build a mazdaspeed version of the Rx8 to america.

Magic8

Like I said, the only way the 8 can be lightened is to go to exotic mateial. BTW it may be that the development cost less expensive (I have a sneaky feeling that this is not the case,) but tooling alone will significantly increase cost. Anytime you deviate from better known materials like steel, aluminum, and plastics, things get expensive fast. Then there is the capacity issue. Carbon fiber isn't exactly something quite, I would like to see any manufacturer pump out 30,000 carbon fiber hoods. There are things to consider like tool life and replacing machining bits. Some grades of titanium (especially the stuff that is alloyed to make it stiffness and have a higher yield strength) wear out stamping dies and machining bits much faster. Aluminum need to be properly aged in order for it to not turn brittle. I may not be in the auto industry but my experience with manufacturing using smiliar materials tells me that there is no way going to exotic material is "inexpensive."

Mass production is the ultimate in engineering (Ferrari has nothing on mass producers!) It's easy to make a few 100 products, but when making 10,000 or 30,000 things get really difficult. In engineering and in economics the motto goes, "There is no Free Lunch." If it was easy and inexpensive, then Mazda would have done it a long time ago.

Icemark

Hmm I didn't know the vette exceeded 3/4 of a million units in total sales.

Well then the best selling import sports car.

Rolf in Japan

Hello everyone, I'm new to using threads and forums, (I'm a dinosaur) so sorry if I make a mistake. I'm now living in Japan, I used to live in America and I had a wonderful winning blue RX-8 there. Anyways, I just wanted to tell you that I got a new magazine here today that shows pictures and gives a little information of the new styled RX-8; saying that it's coming out in November of 2006. The styling is very similar to the Kabura concept that was just shown recently in the big auto shows. The sides look the same as the current RX-8, but it's got some bigger fancier wheels. There's also a hardtop version of the new MX-5 Miata with a folding top (a la Mercedes SLK) coming out too. Oh, and I went to the Mazda factory in Hiroshima and got to tour it, seeing the people and where they built my beloved RX-8! It was great! I definitely Recommend it!

Raptor2k

Got a scanner?

TKZ

Pics please!!

RX-Hachi

Which magazine? I'll be back in Tokyo in two weeks and will try to pick one up. I have a scanner, if Rolf in Japan doesn't scan the images for us.

But it really depends on which magazine you got the info from. There are some mags that are infamous for their photoshops and artist's impressions. So don't believe everything you see those mags. I've been going back and forth to Japan for about 10 years now. And have seen all kinds of crazy photoshopped projections of new cars in those mags, most of which look nothing like the eventual production cars.

On the other hand, if these images are credible, we all want to see 'em.

Rolf in Japan

Hello, I hope I do this picture posting right, I don't have a scanner or a printer here in Japan, so I had to use my lame digital camera to take some pictures of the pages. From my poor translations, I understand that the new RX-8 style will "debut" in November of this year, 2006. I also can figure out that it's only cosmetic changes, there's nothing about changes to the engine or drivetrain. I can't translate anything about any new options either. But from what I can see, the changes are obviously the new face, and the side fender blinkers have been moved up and incorporated into the side mirrors. Also there doesn't seem to be anyplace for the fog lights, unless those are incorporated into the headlights, or they're those strange triangle holes in the lower front bumper; also notice the nice new fancy wheels. Translated, the magazines name is "Holiday Auto." Anyways, I don't know if it's official or anything, but it's interesting to see.

Mitch Strickler

[QUOTE=Rolf in Japan]
the changes are obviously the new face

I didn't need anything to make me appreciate the good taste and, as the Mazda designer said, "lithe" character of the original design. This heavy-handed, Audi/VW copycat mess, signaling brute force that the RX8 doesn't have, will make me even happier every time I look at my 2004.

also notice the nice new fancy wheels.

Again, sacrificing harmonious proportions for the bigger-is-better school. Aside from looks, a Road & Track engineering article on wheel/tire size suggested that the current 18" is a good performance choice.

Re-bending sheet metal must be cheaper than the rumored fuel injection/3rd plug etc. fixes to improve gas consumption and power. I hope that ugly sells, so there will be money to do the engineering development work.

Mitch

tjbourgoyne

"Kabura" is in the text above the car. Translator anywhere?

TKZ

Yikes...it looks like a Dodge or a Chrysler. Hard to tell if this is genuine or not, though. If it is, I'll be getting an '06 for sure. This is NOT the gorgeous car I've been wanting for months...

LionZoo

I think the magazine is full of it. The reason is very simple, the Kabura was a design concept by Franz von Holzhausen of Mazda's North American design center. It was not a coordinated effort with the rest of the Mazda product line to produce a new "family look" and it certainly had nothing to do with the RX-8 other than using a modified version of its platform for the car's architecture. I don't think von Holzhausen has the influence to change the looks of Mazda's other models and since the Kabura debuted so recently, I also highly doubt that Mazda had enough lead time to change the RX-8 to resemble the Kabura. If you look at the picture, you'll see that the front end is almost exactly like that of the Kabura's and that the wheels are the same also. It's not too hard to use photoshop, therefore, I call BS.