2012 Mazda RX-7
08-06-2010 | 05:44 PM
#52
This guy thinks that Mazda can produce an RX with a 3-rotor that will comply with emissions while maintaining enough reliability to last through the warranty under all season driving conditions WHILE maintaining a price point similar to the RX8 in a country where gas prices are on the rise 
08-06-2010 | 06:16 PM
#53
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From: knoxville TN
This guy thinks that Mazda can produce an RX with a 3-rotor that will comply with emissions while maintaining enough reliability to last through the warranty under all season driving conditions WHILE maintaining a price point similar to the RX8 in a country where gas prices are on the rise
08-07-2010 | 08:17 AM
#56
Chastain Beach
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
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From: Stuart, FL
08-07-2010 | 10:03 AM
#59
Chastain Beach
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Stuart, FL
2+ years now
http://www.rotaryeng.net/Mazda_R26B_US.pdf
I suppose this car, RX8 has its limitations, especially the economic. I would like to see some more efforts made by Mazda in regards to the low-end torque. It seems that it lacks a competitive advantage when limited to a 2 rotor engine. The telescopic intake is quite interesting idea toward solving the torque problem but whether it can be implemented in a way conform to the corporate business model prescribed to this vehicle is another story. I did not purchase my 2008 to be practical commuter vehicle but rather something to provide a diversion to the daily grind.
At the time of my purchase and I still feel that the performance package offered at the base level pricing is unrivaled by any other manufacturer. I had to rule out any FWD models since my experience with the Ford Probe(Ford motor and Mazda chasis) was not to my liking. My 5 years Club Racing experience driving a 280Z had shed new light on the competitiveness of the RX7. On paper they just did not look good but on the track they had several distinct advantages.
After following the Rolex series of Grand-Am racing this year I find that the 3 rotor version is quite an animal and Mazda will most certainly win the manufacturer's championship in GT. Congrats to Sylvain Tremblay after the recent at win at NJMP. The Chevys dominated qualifying and beginning but the Mazdas ended up stealing the show. The Continental series however is a different story since rules limit engines to basically stock. Although Mazda has proved competitive in the ST class, MX-5 and Speed 3 the RX-8 2-rotor is hardly a factor.
In summary I suppose that there are many factors at work in the automotive marketplace when it comes to what a manufacture will offer. If the technology is not yet here to provide an optional 3 rotor version that will meet todays emission standards and compete with the 370Zs, Infinitys, BMWs, Mustangs, Camaros and etc. then perhaps I will wait until it does.
I suppose this car, RX8 has its limitations, especially the economic. I would like to see some more efforts made by Mazda in regards to the low-end torque. It seems that it lacks a competitive advantage when limited to a 2 rotor engine. The telescopic intake is quite interesting idea toward solving the torque problem but whether it can be implemented in a way conform to the corporate business model prescribed to this vehicle is another story. I did not purchase my 2008 to be practical commuter vehicle but rather something to provide a diversion to the daily grind.
At the time of my purchase and I still feel that the performance package offered at the base level pricing is unrivaled by any other manufacturer. I had to rule out any FWD models since my experience with the Ford Probe(Ford motor and Mazda chasis) was not to my liking. My 5 years Club Racing experience driving a 280Z had shed new light on the competitiveness of the RX7. On paper they just did not look good but on the track they had several distinct advantages.
After following the Rolex series of Grand-Am racing this year I find that the 3 rotor version is quite an animal and Mazda will most certainly win the manufacturer's championship in GT. Congrats to Sylvain Tremblay after the recent at win at NJMP. The Chevys dominated qualifying and beginning but the Mazdas ended up stealing the show. The Continental series however is a different story since rules limit engines to basically stock. Although Mazda has proved competitive in the ST class, MX-5 and Speed 3 the RX-8 2-rotor is hardly a factor.
In summary I suppose that there are many factors at work in the automotive marketplace when it comes to what a manufacture will offer. If the technology is not yet here to provide an optional 3 rotor version that will meet todays emission standards and compete with the 370Zs, Infinitys, BMWs, Mustangs, Camaros and etc. then perhaps I will wait until it does.
08-07-2010 | 02:55 PM
#62
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 21,958
Likes: 115
From: portland oregon
http://www.rotaryeng.net/Mazda_R26B_US.pdf
I suppose this car, RX8 has its limitations, especially the economic. I would like to see some more efforts made by Mazda in regards to the low-end torque. It seems that it lacks a competitive advantage when limited to a 2 rotor engine. The telescopic intake is quite interesting idea toward solving the torque problem but whether it can be implemented
I suppose this car, RX8 has its limitations, especially the economic. I would like to see some more efforts made by Mazda in regards to the low-end torque. It seems that it lacks a competitive advantage when limited to a 2 rotor engine. The telescopic intake is quite interesting idea toward solving the torque problem but whether it can be implemented
the rx-8 already has variable length intake runners incoporated in its design. S-DAIS look it up there are diagrams around to explain it that i dont feel like grabbing at the moment because my wife wants me to get on the honeydew list.
as far as other ways to deal with torque. read up on the 16x. this next generation 2 rotor has different geometry than the current engine, increasing its "stroke" thus increasing the T.
08-07-2010 | 03:12 PM
#64
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From: Paramaribo, Suriname ( South America )
Here is the web page translated, or the best I can do.
will be powered by turbocharged engine, the rotor with a new appearance design ●
國外預估推出時程＝2012年第四季 Foreign estimates range = launch the fourth quarter of 2012
自從Mazda於1978年推出第一代RX-7以來，RX-7向來是日系跑車的代表之一，輕量而敏銳的特性讓許多人對此一車款給與極高的評價，然而自從第三 代RX-7（FD）於2002年停產，Mazda打算以RX-8取代過去RX-7的地位，但很顯然RX-8特立獨行的設計並不能完全取代RX-7的地位；而Mazda在發現此一事實後，便著手於開發新一代RX-7的計畫。 Since the launch of Mazda in 1978, the first-generation RX-7 has been, RX-7 has been a representative of the Japanese sports car, lightweight and sensitive nature of this many people to give a high evaluation of models, however, since the third generation RX-7 (FD) in 2002, discontinued, Mazda intends to replace the RX-8's position over the last RX-7, but it is clear that the design of RX-8 maverick can not completely replace the RX-7's status; and Mazda in the discovered this fact after they started on the development of next-generation RX-7 plans.
Next-generation RX-7's rear lines should be with the current Mazda 3, Mazda 6 have a similar charm
New generation of turbocharged rotary engine
許多車迷都非常期待RX-7的再度復活，但新世代的RX-7似乎將會擁有與過去RX-7全然不同的外觀造型，在機械結構方面也將採用全新的設計；外觀方面將會採用與現行Mazda車系相同的特 徵，諸如大型的五點式水箱罩與輪廓分明的前後輪拱，車尾也將會採用與現行Mazda 3、Mazda 6等車款相似的造形設計，並且維持大型掀背尾門的設計。 Many fans are very much looking forward to the re-resurrection of RX-7, but the new generation RX-7 seems to be owned in the past RX-7 completely different appearance, in the mechanical structure also will adopt a new design; look side will will be used with the current Mazda cars the same characteristics, such as large-scale five-point grille and chiseled front and rear wheel arches, the rear will also be used with the current Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and other cars similar to shape the design, and maintain large hatchback tailgate design.
底盤將會採用與現行MX-5相似的機械結構，但針對細部與尺寸方面進行修改，引擎則會採用Mazda目前正積極開發的新世代渦輪增壓 轉子引擎，根據Mazda方面的消息指出，這具引擎目前正進入最終開發階段，新型的渦輪增壓轉子引擎的表現 實在讓人相當期待。 Chassis to be used with the current MX-5 similar to the mechanical structure, but some aspects of detail and size changes, the engine will be used Mazda is now actively developing a new generation of turbocharged rotary engine, according to Mazda in the news pointed out that a the engine is now entering the final stage of development, the new turbo-charged rotary engine's performance is really quite looking forward to people.
雖說目前此車仍在概念階段，但根據非官方消息指出，新世代的RX-7將會在本次的東京車展中展出，屆時我們將可一睹新車的風貌。 Although the car is currently still in concept stage, but according to unofficial sources said that the new generation RX-7 will be in the times displayed at the Tokyo Motor Show, when we will be able to see the new car style. 另外，RX-8似乎並不會因為新款RX-7的出現而停產，目前Mazda方面正在歐洲測試2011年式的小改款RX-8。 In addition, RX-8 does not seem to the new RX-7 because of the emergence of stop production, Mazda currently being tested in Europe in 2011-style facelift RX-8. 劉建宏 Chien-Hung Liu
will be powered by turbocharged engine, the rotor with a new appearance design ●
國外預估推出時程＝2012年第四季 Foreign estimates range = launch the fourth quarter of 2012
自從Mazda於1978年推出第一代RX-7以來，RX-7向來是日系跑車的代表之一，輕量而敏銳的特性讓許多人對此一車款給與極高的評價，然而自從第三 代RX-7（FD）於2002年停產，Mazda打算以RX-8取代過去RX-7的地位，但很顯然RX-8特立獨行的設計並不能完全取代RX-7的地位；而Mazda在發現此一事實後，便著手於開發新一代RX-7的計畫。 Since the launch of Mazda in 1978, the first-generation RX-7 has been, RX-7 has been a representative of the Japanese sports car, lightweight and sensitive nature of this many people to give a high evaluation of models, however, since the third generation RX-7 (FD) in 2002, discontinued, Mazda intends to replace the RX-8's position over the last RX-7, but it is clear that the design of RX-8 maverick can not completely replace the RX-7's status; and Mazda in the discovered this fact after they started on the development of next-generation RX-7 plans.
Next-generation RX-7's rear lines should be with the current Mazda 3, Mazda 6 have a similar charm
New generation of turbocharged rotary engine
許多車迷都非常期待RX-7的再度復活，但新世代的RX-7似乎將會擁有與過去RX-7全然不同的外觀造型，在機械結構方面也將採用全新的設計；外觀方面將會採用與現行Mazda車系相同的特 徵，諸如大型的五點式水箱罩與輪廓分明的前後輪拱，車尾也將會採用與現行Mazda 3、Mazda 6等車款相似的造形設計，並且維持大型掀背尾門的設計。 Many fans are very much looking forward to the re-resurrection of RX-7, but the new generation RX-7 seems to be owned in the past RX-7 completely different appearance, in the mechanical structure also will adopt a new design; look side will will be used with the current Mazda cars the same characteristics, such as large-scale five-point grille and chiseled front and rear wheel arches, the rear will also be used with the current Mazda 3, Mazda 6 and other cars similar to shape the design, and maintain large hatchback tailgate design.
底盤將會採用與現行MX-5相似的機械結構，但針對細部與尺寸方面進行修改，引擎則會採用Mazda目前正積極開發的新世代渦輪增壓 轉子引擎，根據Mazda方面的消息指出，這具引擎目前正進入最終開發階段，新型的渦輪增壓轉子引擎的表現 實在讓人相當期待。 Chassis to be used with the current MX-5 similar to the mechanical structure, but some aspects of detail and size changes, the engine will be used Mazda is now actively developing a new generation of turbocharged rotary engine, according to Mazda in the news pointed out that a the engine is now entering the final stage of development, the new turbo-charged rotary engine's performance is really quite looking forward to people.
雖說目前此車仍在概念階段，但根據非官方消息指出，新世代的RX-7將會在本次的東京車展中展出，屆時我們將可一睹新車的風貌。 Although the car is currently still in concept stage, but according to unofficial sources said that the new generation RX-7 will be in the times displayed at the Tokyo Motor Show, when we will be able to see the new car style. 另外，RX-8似乎並不會因為新款RX-7的出現而停產，目前Mazda方面正在歐洲測試2011年式的小改款RX-8。 In addition, RX-8 does not seem to the new RX-7 because of the emergence of stop production, Mazda currently being tested in Europe in 2011-style facelift RX-8. 劉建宏 Chien-Hung Liu
08-07-2010 | 05:56 PM
#65
the rx-8 already has variable length intake runners incoporated in its design. S-DAIS look it up there are diagrams around to explain it that i dont feel like grabbing at the moment because my wife wants me to get on the honeydew list.
as far as other ways to deal with torque. read up on the 16x. this next generation 2 rotor has different geometry than the current engine, increasing its "stroke" thus increasing the T.
as far as other ways to deal with torque. read up on the 16x. this next generation 2 rotor has different geometry than the current engine, increasing its "stroke" thus increasing the T.
A naturally aspirated rotary with torque?
....WITCHCRAFT!!!!!
08-07-2010 | 06:37 PM
#66
I think Mazda knows the interest in the 20B, but it would be retarded to drop that into a production vehicle. But a naturally aspirated 1.3L is way behind the modern DOHC competition. So it looks like Mazda is meeting in the middle and making a larger 2 rotor. The new 16X looks awesome. Bigger, lighter, more powerful. Yum yum.
08-07-2010 | 07:24 PM
#67
I like the ab flug kit for the rx8 and even I think this car looks bad. Like alot of women, this car looks better from the back but they really need to build the car Khronus posted a pic of.
09-08-2010 | 06:20 PM
#69
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 454
Likes: 0
From: Texas Hill County
GSL-SE to me felt like it had a lot of Torque. I have shreded up tires and crashed a couple. Getting rid of the back seats (leave that to 2, 3 and 6 models) is a good step.
Put Winkers back in! Make optional or something. Pop Up's 4 the win
Put Winkers back in! Make optional or something. Pop Up's 4 the win
09-08-2010 | 09:06 PM
#70
Hmmmmmm.........
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,564
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne, Australia
Looks similar to this that was posted on the .au forum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVuk68ouy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVuk68ouy
09-09-2010 | 06:46 AM
#71
Chastain Beach
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Stuart, FL
NICE! the article's in Chinese... the author thinks that the rebirth of the 7 won't curb Mazda's plans to cease production of the 8. (wonder what pipe he is smoking.)
09-09-2010 | 07:06 AM
#72
This same old belief again.
Why do you see it as "does not make business sense" to take an engine that has already been developed and put it in more than 1 platform?
If there wasn't a benefit to sharing engines across multiple platforms, Mazda wouldn't have the 2.3L, in either variations, in so many platforms for so many years, and highly successful.
It makes PERFECT business sense to have more than platform returning cash to pay back the R+D. Just because 2 platforms have the rotary doesn't mean that it will cut their sales of each in half.
Simply not true. If it was true, we wouldn't have all the variations of piston powered cars we do.
Rotary vs Piston doesn't make a difference, it still the same basic business model when it comes to [Profit Per Car] x [Cars Sold] - [R+D Costs] = [Net Profit] (minus other expenses such as salaries and such of course)
The RX-8 was designed to appeal to as many different car buyers as possible. This doesn't mean that future rotaries could be "split" so that there are different ones to appeal to different people.
09-10-2010 | 07:13 AM
#73
Chastain Beach
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Stuart, FL
Sigh... ditto,
Sure, you can have as many cars as you want but what happens in a difficuly economy people don't buy many new cars so this is where your equation falls apart. This car is competition to the RX8 model, not a complement.
Why do you think companies like GM cut their brands?
Sure, you can have as many cars as you want but what happens in a difficuly economy people don't buy many new cars so this is where your equation falls apart. This car is competition to the RX8 model, not a complement.
Why do you think companies like GM cut their brands?
09-10-2010 | 07:29 AM
#74
Even in a poor economy, the equation still works. The [Cars Sold] is lower, so there is less net profit, so it's harder for companies to survive, but that doesn't mean that the same basic principle applies.
Those companies are cutting brands because they weren't making enough per car, and weren't selling enough cars, so they weren't profitable.
I see an RX-7 and RX-8/9 on the lineup similar to how Chevy is still profitable with having the Cobalt SS, the Camaro, and the Corvette on the lineup. Does each compete with the other to at least a tiny degree? Sure! Does that make any of them not profitable? No!
Or with Toyota having the Avalon, Camry, and Lexus ES.
I'd bet that your arguement to how it's not like these examples at all is that "they are different cars for different people". Which is my entire point. If Mazda made 2 sports cars that are only slightly different, of course that would be stupid. But it would be an easy thing to make a sports sedan and a 2 seat sports car that appeal to very different population sets. Like how the Camaro is "like" the Corvette, but they appeal to 2 very different population sets, serve different needs and wants, etc...
Any buyer will be considering more than 1 car. If more than 1 car is even remotely possible, then whichever they buy will be a lost sale for the others under consideration. But that doesn't mean that it makes the other cars not profitable.
Even if an RX-7 takes 50% of the sales from an RX-8/9, if the NET total profit across the 2 platforms is greater than 1 platform alone, then it is a smart business decision, even if it seems like each sells poorly.
Those companies are cutting brands because they weren't making enough per car, and weren't selling enough cars, so they weren't profitable.
I see an RX-7 and RX-8/9 on the lineup similar to how Chevy is still profitable with having the Cobalt SS, the Camaro, and the Corvette on the lineup. Does each compete with the other to at least a tiny degree? Sure! Does that make any of them not profitable? No!
Or with Toyota having the Avalon, Camry, and Lexus ES.
I'd bet that your arguement to how it's not like these examples at all is that "they are different cars for different people". Which is my entire point. If Mazda made 2 sports cars that are only slightly different, of course that would be stupid. But it would be an easy thing to make a sports sedan and a 2 seat sports car that appeal to very different population sets. Like how the Camaro is "like" the Corvette, but they appeal to 2 very different population sets, serve different needs and wants, etc...
Any buyer will be considering more than 1 car. If more than 1 car is even remotely possible, then whichever they buy will be a lost sale for the others under consideration. But that doesn't mean that it makes the other cars not profitable.
Even if an RX-7 takes 50% of the sales from an RX-8/9, if the NET total profit across the 2 platforms is greater than 1 platform alone, then it is a smart business decision, even if it seems like each sells poorly.
Last edited by RIWWP; 09-10-2010 at 07:32 AM.
