Skyline added that I did not see the 'j/k' after his post.

However, when I posed my question, I used the quote feature built into the UBBThreads software at FreshAlloy. Thus, this 'j/k' was added after my question was posed.

Methinks a conspiracy afoot

 

I love to hear about cars of all sorts and counterpoints.

But a 'review of a review' does not serve much purpose without seeing it in its entirety. The only person who has seen it is Skyline. Not a lot of people know the background of the magazine, regardless of what they are 'reputed' to be known as.

I'll stick with my Evos, CARs, Car and Drivers, and Road and Tracks to get my information. When more reviews surface I'm sure we will see the good points and bad points bought about against any competitor. Most times it's already been echoed with the reviews done on the pre-production models. However, we really are beating a dead horse... I have not heard of BM until this thread arose, so I am ambivalent into what to make of them... time will tell when more reviews surface on production model RX-8s.

 

Herc: I admit I might be alittle over-enthusiastic about this video I got. Being that the RX-8 is one month from launching, I really thought a video like this would be helpful for those interested in motor sporting with the RX. While you have repeatedly point out this video is completely meaningless, you and I both know perfectly well that's just denial at best. While my wording are probably biased to a certain extend, I do try my best to provide useful info to fellow auto enthusiasts on this forum. You kept saying that "Wait till the car comes out and then decide~" That's a good point, except you'd never get to push the car to its limits on a test drive with a brand new un-broken in car. Many on the fence waiting on a final decision will find this video informative and useful.

As far as the video clips, the victor and final ranking is determined in the first lap of the race. (You see the S2k up front, Skyline passing WRX and RX8, WRX passing RX8) With the exception of a good battle between RX-8 and Integra, that's pretty much how the race ended. Translation? I understood 1/2 the Japanese and I have translated as much for the forum as I could understand. Now if you want to keep saying it's pointless, that's fine with me. Just keep in mind that when C&D review came out months ago, you were the most enthusiastic member to brag about it all over the place. I suppose the C&D review wasn't as pointless then, eh?

Rexor: Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. After hours of ripping this damn video, researching, and translating... it's good to see someone enjoying the video.

 

Man, Herc, you are a lot more ignorant than I thought possible. Ask ANYBODY in the JDM scene what BM is, who Tsuchiya , Kurosawa, and Nakaya is. Do you know where the RX-8 is engineered, designed, and built? JAPAN! That's right~ from a place where you hardly know anything about while accusing their most reputable automobile publication and their most well respected motor sport drivers. You got beef with me and want to discredit me and my effort, that's fine. (since we've had our difference, I understand) However, if you keep talking crap about BM, its staff and conspiracy theories, you'll end up looking like a fool and be mocked for denial and paranoia. If you got some info I don't, then go ahead and site it~ Feed me some information that says the RX-8 can outrun a S2000, WRX, Integra R, or G35C on a track, mountain pass, drag strip or whereever.

Why can't you just accept the fact the G35C, WRX, Integra R, S2000 beat the RX-8 on track fair and square. You can't expect the RX-8 to perform like a supercar, carry 4 full size passengers, and still cost the price it come with. Be proud of what the car is, not what you wish it to be. If you keep insisting the RX-8 HAS TO be faster than a @*#!&$^!@ on track, all you will end up with is regrets and distaste.

btw: What do you mean "But a 'review of a review' does not serve much purpose without seeing it in its entirety."? With the attitude you are giving me on this thread..... Do you really expect me to go rip the whole video, spend time translating and subtitling it just so you can 'evaluate' how pointless it is? Forget it. Sheesh, if you don't care for the video, then don't even watch it. You have been pretty clear that you don't give a rats *** about BM, it's video and my review, so why not just skip it and save me the lecture.

 

Skyline on this forum you've been pretty civil but after realizing that you are Skyline2 of FreshAlloy fame... you really just lost all credibility when posting your 'objective posts.' I just noticed it today when I clicked on your profile in FreshAlloy.

To sum it up... I think it's best said by you, so please... allow me:

Quote:

Which means absolutely nothing, because pretty much ANYTHING is better than a Mazda. If I win a RX-8 in a car lottery, I would get rid of it the next day. For the longest time I thought Mazda made cars with degradable material, so as the car age, it is DESIGNED to fall apart so Mazda dealerships can make profit on the repair. (Since they have to discount every car on the lot in order to sell them) Besides, why are they comparing 2X 2 door authentic GT's with a 4 door strange looking bubble top Mazda? Shouldn't the test consiste of: RX8, 350Z, S2000, WRX Sti and Evo VIII? Whoever pick these three cars for comparison test should have their laptop computer taken away and place on journalism probation for awhile. That's like comparing a Station wagon, a SUV and a unreliable overpriced minivan.

Quote:

Actually I have been bashing Mazda since before RX-8 was even announced. I could careless if the car finishes 1st or 100th. If it's a Mazda, I'd bash it. If someone drives a Mazda, I'd feel sorry for them. If someone wants a Mazda, then I'd try like hell to save their soul.

Quote:

People keep bragging about this Renesis engie. What the heck, I know motorcycle engines that rev higher and have more torque than this gimmick rotary. Throw some turbos and we'll talk. As it stands the Renesis is one of the WORST engines on the market: Pathetic torque, peaky power that required a 9000rpm redline, embarrassing gas milage considering the weight of the car and the size of the engine. This is one of those engines that give 'combustion engines' a bad name. I think electric engine can produce better performace than Renesis.

Now then, I wonder how much money Mazda had to give C&D to write that article? A car that gets its *** kicked in performance, acceleration, power, torque, and on the track..... yet gets better scores on engine / transmission / fun to drive category!?

The last time I checked, fun to drive doesn't mean getting blinded by the G35C LED taillights all day long. GTV..... get a new job with a better car company. Once Mazda sales starts going south again, more people will be layed off. (Ford will likely start chopping Mazda employees first)

Now I've always given compliments to the Infiniti/Nissan for making a great car in the G35. In fact, I did my own test on the G35 Coupe a while back and again, praised it in many regards.

With the attitude you exude, it's clear to me that you hate Mazda, you hate the RX-8, and that you're here with no more mind than to wait what is it... "try like hell to save our souls."?

I have been for some time, very patient towards posts, I make my suggestions in posting guidelines, and over all... been pretty civil.

You started on this forum trolling, bringing up topics like lack of torque, safety concerns, etc, all that have been addressed. With this video you present to us a video that *might* be worthwhile in watching, and also might not be. Thus far C&D has placed the G35 ahead of the RX-8 around a track by a SLIGHT margin. Now when you jump across to Japan and the RX-8 suddenly loses lap times by insane margins (as you say this video portrays, and I'll believe), loses every other test like slalom, lane change, autocross, etc... all because you have given us an 'unbiased' source with your 'objective' review... I'll call you on it.

Your history of hatred for Mazda has fortunately been brought to my attention by RX-8 Zoomster (thanks Mark) and I never put the 2+2 together to realize it was the same person who I tried to debate on FreshAlloy, found MYSELF out of line from frustration (because... it didn't matter what I said... Mazda sucks!), and finally left due to my own behavior and the lack of debate there.

You Skyline, will *never* give Mazda credit for the RX-8 in any regard. It's very much like life... you will *always* find somebody to agree with your point of view and thus 'show us the light.' Given your past history on this forum by starting posts that lead only to controversy and irritation, and your wonderful contributions at FreshAlloy under your various personas, I really believe the time for debate is over, and that you really have no place at these forums.

When perhaps you can look past the fact the rotary is a gimmick, the RX-8 is unsafe and slow, that the G35C is the end-all-be-all of automobiles, and that Mazda is the most terrible company on the planet (as you've numerous times explained to via FreshAlloy), it might serve us (being the forum members) to hear some of your valid points, friendly debate, and keen observations.

The only observation you've constantly made is simply alluding to the fact that the RX-8 and Mazda are 'subpar' in their automobiles and performance, especially when compared to the G35. And while that's a valid point, you never bring valid information to the table except just enough with which to troll. My observation is simply this: you aren't, and have not been, a contributing member to this forum in any productive way since your first post, you have a wicked hatred for Mazda and its products, and you continually push threads into a path that leads ultimately (as this one has) into turmoil and chaos.

Again, please refrain from posting, as you haven't a leg to stand on. I make no motion to having you banned, I just simply think you do us a favor if instead of turning this forum into a moderation nightmare and becoming counterproductive to those that seek lively and educational debate (for pros OR cons) on this car, that you stop posting unless you can reform yourself to the items aforementioned.

I am sure that after just skimming some of your lovely posts from FreshAlloy though... that many forum members will begin to understand why I have posted this message. And if not, I apologise in advance to those members.

Cheers and good night.

 

Sky,

If the j/k meant "just kidding" then I overlooked that. If that is the case then I apologize for calling you a liar. I know you are adamant about your G35c and your dislike for Mazda due to your unfortunate experience with them. I don't blame your hesitancy towards Mazda products.

I also know you have a history of "subliminally" plugging the G35. Hey, you love your car. I admire your fortitude in defending what is a great car, the G35 and pointing out there are alternative buying choices for some. I admit it is a great automobile. My 2nd choice by the way.

As in regards to deleting your post and my previous post, my apology should surfice. I need the post count.

 

That 'j/k' was edited in.

When I posed the question, I used the quote feature built into UBBThreads. It copied what Skyline/CPV/etc wrote word for word. I didn't edit it.

The 'j/k' was added after I bought the topic up here and he reviewed it and then made the changes to his post accordingly on FreshAlloy.

I do not know whether or not the Japanese spec G35C is any different than the US spec one... but I'd like some proof in that regard. When I posted it initially I didn't make ANY assumption... I simply said "here's what I got off FreshAlloy, take it as you will." Skyline saw that and edited his message.

 

SM,

I don't really see all this "BM bashing" etc. as you state it. All I see that most here agree that this BM video is clearly not the "final word" on anything. Since you are clearly aquainted with BM, you will also know that results of BM videos are often debated in many forums. This does not mean we are "bashing BM" so don't get so worked up over nothing. It happens everywhere and for good reason too. BM results are pretty weird sometimes.

Case in point (S2000 debut video?):
1. Euro M roadster
2. Super 7
3. RX7
4. 3.0L NSX
5. Integra Type R
6. Sylvia Spec-R
7. S2000

Heh, seems Integra beat the S2000. What happened in this video? Why did this happen? Different driver? Different conditions? The driver of the S2000 also stated it was underpowered and "too soft" for track use. What gives? This is just one of the many many examples.

So what does this mean? Are these videos worthless? No, I don't think so. What I love about the BM videos is that you can really see the cars side by side on the road/track. But really, I don't really draw much else. I don't ever conclusively say that car is better or whatever nor do I rule out any car as being "sucky".

 

oh wow i never made that connection. yes this guy is the number one mazda basher on freshalloy since i've been (lurking) there for the past almost year. the g35c still beat the rx8 in bm's test though.

 

heh, that quote didn't sound like a joke to me. weird sense of humor?

 

Haha, as a fellow FA member, you'd know my hatred for Mazda USA runs deeper than blood. That being said, I don't believe I have acted inappropriately on this particular forum since the beginning. I approached the RX-8 forum with the view that "What if I look at the RX-8 as an automobile instead of a Mazda product?" Then things became clear for me that the RX-8 is a fine automobile, and Mazda dealerships and corporate Mazda USA is only dragging down this product due to their incompetence. With that understanding, I post on this forum without any of the Mazda bashing. (Not RX-8 bashing, mind you)

If Herc wants to dig up my posts on FA, that's fine with me. On different forums, I approach matters differently. I don't deny hating Mazda Co, there is a long history behind it, but I would not dream of elaborating it here. For my conducts on RX-8 forum, I believe I have been more than fair. While I might be biased towards Infiniti, I am not afraid to give a car credit where it's deserving. The RX8 is an very interesting car, a very well balanced mixture of sport and practicality. I am not here to bash the car~ I am here to study it and learn about it- NOT as a Mazda, but as an automobile.

Herc, I am not going to bother digging up your posts on FA~ let's just say if you ever purchased a G35C, you probably wouldn't want to rejoin the G35 forum under the same user name . You want to bash me? Fine, start a new thread. Want to start a petition to ban me here again? Go ahead and PM the webmaster. BUT for the love of God, stop jacking my Best Motoring thread.

 

btw: chenpin~ weird sense of humor? :D That post on FA was supposed to give Herc a good night sleep and leave this thread alone for awhile. Guess too many people saw it and backfired.

For all you FA lurkers, I don't know how, or why it took you guys 3 months to figure out who I am. :D I think someone figured it out the second day I was here.... but that was ancient history and I guessed nobody remembered. If you guys have to force me to say what I really really think, I'll quote you from my FA post:

" The BIGGEST PROBLEM with the RX-8 is that it's a MAZDA product. If Acura, Lexus, Honda or Toyota made the RX-8, it would be a hot cake. "

Anyhow, I came to the forum because I was interested in the RX-8. I hate Mazda USA with my soul, but I am not going to discredit the 8 here because the car deserves some merits. (Did I even mention my fav street car used to be the FD?)

 

I sorta thought about you being Skyline2, but dam, that change in tone and objective reasoning was so different. Kinda like jerkel/hyde or something. heh.

anyways, you prob have your own valid reasons for hating Mazda but come on, calling the Renesis the WORST engine ever? And the RX-8 is a "strang looking bubble top Mazda"? Thats uncalled for.

 

Hmmmm! Edited in. The plot thickens. I didn't think I saw that j/k in that post initially. Good move, SKY to cover your tracks. Maybe I should recant my apology.

Also, like chenpin, it doesn't look like a joke. But I'll give SKY the benefit of the doubt.

 

And why is that exactly SM?

Because you'd flame me again for my giving Mazda a chance?

However I'd beg you keep in mind, that the posts I dug up were moreso about 'gimmick rotaries' and how the RX-8 sucked than about your hating Mazda. Hell, even I hate Mazda's customer service. I'm making plans now to finance thru an outside lender because I know when time comes, Mazda will try to screw me on the payments.

As I said before.... I don't doubt the Skyline Coupe beat the RX-8. I never denied it. I just asked for some information (you know... proof) between the US spec versions and Japanese spec versions of the G35/Skyline Coupe. I also suggested (and I know it's ludicrus) that a driver *might* have an off day. It's crazy... I know. But to that, you jumped to the conclusion that I was putting down BM and well, I rather saw where the thread was headed.

I am not putting down the drivers at BM. I am not saying their credentials are sub par. I simply am not informed about it (admittedly so), and asked for some factual information that you will not provide. I am not a part of the "JDM" scene. I simply enjoy cars of all kinds (the G35C included) and don't need to race them against anybody but myself.

Now who knows... I might buy a G35 Coupe. I've said many times before that I have not yet driven the RX-8 and should it not put as big a smile on my face as the G35 did when I drove it... then I will be in the Infiniti dealership THE NEXT DAY. Does this ring a bell? Of course not. You have a selective memory and the only thing that serves you well is to start threads that get immediately trashy (with a nudge in that direction from yourself of course), take offense at even a hint of disagreement, and keep your self-serving bias that Mazda sucks in your background because let's face it.... even if you're 'trying' to learn about the RX-8 as an automobile... it's obvious you never forget it's a Mazda with what..

A gimmick rotary.

Give me a break on your attempt to redeem. I've seen your tone escalate more quickly than a whiney toddler on threads here and at FA, and as a result I find myself more and more irritated. On FA I rather blew my top, embarassed myself, and did not return for some time because it is generally not in my nature to resort to name calling. I take facts, I poke holes in stories, and people don't like it. You obviously don't.

To any of my simple questions, and it's not a fact of "I can't believe the RX-8 lost!", it's more like.... I want to be more educated. Except unlike you, I don't really *hate* any car company. If somebody makes a product that's worth noting, I'll give them credit.

Oh, and that family car I drive... well it was my second car, and I've had it for the last 5 years. I have saved my pennies and dimes to get into a nice car and after doing my homework I decided on this car. I know it's not enough for you that I drove it because of necessity... you know... I am not like you where I have driven awesome kickass cars my entire life and thus, can judge others on the merit of what they drive currently.

Skyline, again.. you bring NOTHING valid to discussion, no valid points, and no FRIENDLY debate. All your posts contain a "but", in which case it generally refers to some fallibility of the RX-8 or Mazda as a whole. I can deal with that. But when you lead threads into a path that is pointless and arguementative then you really have no business posting here.

If you really want to learn something about the RX-8 as a car... just let the forum members who would *remotely* consider this car as an option ask their questions and have them answered honestly. I may be biased because I have money on the car and I *hope* it's a success -- but I'm not blinded. I am fair to every car I have driven in the past, and to cars that I will drive in the future. I am fair when I give information to those asking for answers to their questions. I do not make this car out to be something it is not. It has its highs, and its lows.

You seem to focus mainly on the lows and express your view continually thru the posts you have made. Thus if you *truly* want to learn something... first learn to stop posting on this forum. And start learning to read it.

 

Geez, the j/k was added about 10 seconds so Herc will enjoy it.(The post was without the j/k sign for appx 8 minutes) You guys weren't supposed to see the FA post 2 o'clock in the morning. Only Herc was supposed to see that post. :D Now can any of you swear that you even saw that post on FA without the j/k mark at the end? (I think only Herc and GTV_Boy saw it)

The idea is that Herc will run around telling people the Skyline Coupe was heavily modified, thus beating the RX-8. Then me and my co-workers have another topic to laugh about over lunch break like we usually do. It was an inside joke. It didn't look like a joke? Well, you gotta give Herc some credit. I can't say stuff like the G35C there had a 500hp turbo charged RB26DETT engine, now can I?

 

That's an opinion I can deal with, even here.

But when you bring no facts to the table... you're worthless. And Skyline is merely the epitome of that worthlessness at this point.

As per the looks... that's in the eye of the beholder. I like the way the G35C looks, but the RX-8 better. Some don't. To each his own on that.

Like the saying goes... "I don't know art... but I know what I like."

I like the RX-8's appearance. Skyline doesn't. That's fine by me.

But I also appreciate the rotary. Skyline doesn't. Yet he's made no mention as to why, and that folks... is trolling.

 

If I can quote MYSELF...

Quote:

Taken from the FreshAlloy forums, when I asked if the Skyline Coupe is the same as the G35 Coupe in the states:

Quote:

Unfortunately no, the JDM Skyline that was used in the video had standard aluminum pedals, better tires, Nismo suspension tweaking and ECU tuning that gives the same power as the 350Z. So the Skyline Coupe is like a souped up G35C. So I wonder whether or not a G35C would be able to do the same on Tsukuba given the same conditions.

So there's a bit of info... take it as you will.

 

Skyline Maniac (CPV35SukairainKupe, Skyline2, Sukairain, V35, and SSS),

I remembered you. Trouble is, I do remember. That's why I take most of your threads here, with a grain of salt. That's also why I reminded people here who you were. Thought people deserved to know the history of mighty SKY, and disclose the real man behind your words posted here.

We had our "friendly" discussions when I was a regular poster (Stlr#1fan) on the Fresh Alloy Forum. My last post was defending my purchase of the RX-8 and the great history of Mazda cars my family has had with the 626, Protege and Mazda 6s. I seem to recall on that thread and many others, how much you thought Mazda sucked and whatever was built by them, including "your worst-ever" engine Renesis, was a POS.

 

Thanks Herc. I couldn't have said it better myself. At least that's what I've been trying to convey, with all my previous posts, to all the forum members here.

 

Great weather we're having.

 

I think the problem with SM is that he does not really know what he is talking about. Maybe he has not driven enough car and experience many different kind of automobiles. Maybe Skyline Coupe is his first "Sporty" car? Most or even maybe all of his argument is based purely on reseach not experience. All he can say is that this publication say this, this publication says that.

Like Herc said, his opinion and argument is worthless, there is no quality in it. Isn't it funny that most of his opinion and argunment based on Best Motoring? Is this all he can say, "According to Best Motoring....." Don't get me wrong, I love BM and I understand they are one of the best publication. I've been collecting them for quite some times, and I know results can be different in the track battle. Same driver, same track, different day will produce different result. You can't expect Michael's Ferrari to beat Ralf's William's BMW all the time, can you? I've seen S2000 came last in one of the Best Motoring battle, beaten by a similar car line up(minus RX8 and G35C).

Hey SM, what is wrong with your Skyline? Why everyone should know how good is it? If it is that good, most people should know about it, you don't have to keep reminding us. Maybe if you drive M3 or 911 you will learn to calm down a little because you are confident enough that the car itself can do the talking for you.

PS: I never hate you SM, I really appreciate your effort in entertaining us. It's been a while since we have a thread as active as this one. So please never stop responding to us and yeah, remind us too that the RX8 is a great car. Even though whatever the RX8 can do, the SUKAIRAIN KUPE can do it better.

 

Finally, some intellegent, thought provoking meaning to this thread.

 

Wow, post some videos of a real track battle that RX-8 cames in second to last and you get hammered. Man, that's pretty harsh~ I think Gan-san and his son owe me a pitcher of sake next time I go to Japan.

Bring nothing to the discussion eh? While I don't know much more about the RX-8 than you two, I do know a heck lot more about JDM info, G35C, BM and various publications that came out regarding the JDM RX-8. Now if you guys want to say stuff like I don't contribute, then you better have some videos to upload, some exclusive info you'd like to share, or a test drive of the RX-8 that gives your opinion some weight around here. Until then, keep writing the "torque is not needed" "C&D says it's fun to drive" and "I swear this car can outhandle $#@*& on track" posts that seems just so much more well informed and fact based.

You two need to take some chill pills . If you don't care about what I say or what BM video shows, then why bother wasting bandwidth responding to this thread? You want arguments and objective statements? Then skip my review all together and just watch the damn tape. Then if want to hear them saying good things about the RX-8? Take some Japanese lessons, airmail order a damn BM video and check it out yourselves.

My arguments are about research and not experience? Winning and Hercules: have you guys ever driven the RX8, on the road, on the track or anywhere for that matter? Do you have the RX-8 sitting in the garage you are waxing on the weekends? You went on a road trip with 4 full size adults and want to share with us how comfortable the car was? - what makes you think you are any more informed about the RX-8 than I am? Base on your theory, maybe we should all stop posting here all together until we actually have driven the car extensively.

My arguments contains the word "BUT" and that's causing you sleepless nights? Listen, if you disagree with my opinions, then debate with me on the issues instead of dishing out personal insults and avoiding the issue. Let me just ask you these two questions: Does dissing me or BM staff make your dear RX-8 any faster on the track? Does dissing me make my arguments any weaker? You want fair discussion, then do your research, get your source, and discuss. If you want a flame war, bring it to FA Off Topic~ You know what would happen there. It's funny to see you guys dissing me in this thread, yet accusing me of not bring anything substential to the topic. I don't recall you ripping videos and review them for fellow forum members.

chenpin: the S2000 debut video is a good topic. If you go back and watch it, you will hear Gan-san saying the S2000 was the worst he's driven and the chasis had certain issues. (No really, go back and watch the tape and tell me what they said about the S2000)

 

I find it interesting that SM could actually hate a car company with 'his soul.' That seems a little odd. At any rate, he likes Nissan, and most of us here like Mazda, as a consequence he will attempt to build up Nissan with his posts, while we try to do the same with Mazda. Herc can try to sound objective all he wants, but he's equally able to be petulant as Skyline Maniac.

This video is a blow to all of us, and I include myself in this group, that wanted the 8 to be EVERYTHING. It's no wonder that people on this board are getting defensive, because the Mazda propagana is starting to fall apart. The 8 is not a track car. It's not the best AutoXer out there, and it doesn't smoke the competition in the straights.

While I'm at it, I should point out that the gas mileage on the Renesis is TERRIBLE. The rotary drinks gas like a Russian in a vodka distillery. The torque is not impressive compared to its piston conterparts, and 250 hp is not class leading by any stretch of the imagination.

And do you know what I have to say to all this:

So what?

There is still no car that offers the blend of performance, comfort, utility and quirkyness that the 8 offers for $26k. The video from BM does not alter that. So I think we should all take a deep breath. I'm just as guilty as others on this forum for magazine racing, but this is getting silly.