m477

I really doubt this. All the Mazdaspeed cars so far have been only slightly more expensive than the previous top-of-the-line version of the same car.

What you're probably forgetting here is the economy of scale; Mazda would be buying 5000 turbos (and all other parts) directly from the manufacturer, which is going to be MUCH cheaper than an individual consumer buying the same parts at retail.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

It doesn't matter how many turbos they buy. They have to test the new setup over and over again. Create new training modules for all their techs, train their techs and they will need new equiptment to service the new set up. Also they have to markup what ever they buy by atleast 40% for profit. No company out there will sell something for their cost. If you buy the 8, 30k + turbo and tuning 5-6k total of 36k, Mazda will probably end up charging from the range of 40-45k.

If you look at the 6, the 6 starts at 21K, MS6 starts at 28K. 7k for a turbo, and remember there have been many turbo'ed pistons out there; less R&D time for that. The 8 GT starts at 31k plus the turbo and all their overhead... it will be in be mid 40's. You can't look at tuning a rotory the same as a piston, the cost is very different. That's why my buddy with a Honda can Fi his car for about 2k and to Fi my 8 it will cost me 5-6k.

Another thing is, why would any company create a legacy car that would be cheaper then when it was made 10 years ago. Look at corvette, it still uses leaf springs, either v8's or v10's, and it cost around 70k now? I don't think the Z06 cost 70k in 1997 and they stuck with most of the same parts and the price still increases.

m477

Your numbers are wrong, and you're making the wrong comparisons anyway.

Mazda6 GT: $26,050
Mazdaspeed6: $27,995

Mazda3 GT: $19,895
Mazdaspeed3: $22,340

2004 Miata LS: $24,903
2004 Mazdaspeed MX-5: $25,730

Average price difference between GT/LS model and Mazdaspeed version: $1,739

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Your numbers are wrong too, you are comparing base MS6 vs GT M6

Mazda6 GT: $26,050
Mazdaspeed6 GT: $31,XXX

You also have to concider that that same i-4 is used in the MS6 and MS3 there's a lot less cost when you use the same engine for different models. Also too, the M3 has leather witch is a $2,000 option and the MS3 only comes with cloth. I was comparing base vs base without any options. So, you just read what I post wrong, or the way I wrote it was confusing. And you can't use that average because there are not enough cars to obtain an average. The M3 has a $2,445 price gap, far from $1,739

sosonic

Mazda can make a $5k more expensive Mazdaspeed RX-8 and it would be bought. People would love to go FI and get a warranty. Mazda has lost a load of customers for underpowering the RX-8. Everybody and their uncle knows that with 50HP to 100HP more, the RX-8 would be near perfect as a sports car.

What do you think the sales would be like had the RX-8 been 300HP and pulling low 5s in the 0-60? Trust me, they would have won even more #1 ratings than they have now. People praise the RX-8 as it is now, they would have been having orgasms over an 300HP RX-8 and there would be a lot more overlooking/ignoring of the gas mileage issue.

Mazda would get a deal on the kits and they create the ECU, so there is no cost for an 3rd party EMU like the Int-X. Supercharger kits would have a very good shot at making emissions. There is ZERO good excuses for not having a Mazdaspeed option for their flagship sportscar (RX-8), except Mazda executives BUMBLING AND FUMBLING.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Who says that the Rx8 is not doing well? A few more ponies would be great, but like I said, FI would be greatly more expensive, more then 5k. They are not underpowering it, that's the most power they can pull out with this engine. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but it has no real merrit. If they messed up on the 8 that bad, then the car would have died a long time ago. They got more power out of the rotory for the 8 compared to the NA 7's, they are working on a new rotory to be released in the future. And there is a MS8, it's in japan, same HP yes, but with all the suspension upgrades to make it better on the track. You have to understand how this motor works before you start claiming that it can pass emissions easy with FI. Do kow how many rules and regulations you have to pass in order to get anything approved in the states? I understand where you are coming from, but you have to be realistic understand the engineering and the politics that go into the automotive world.

saturn

I know you want one, but you will never, ever see a $5k more expensive RX-8 with 100hp more. That is insanity.

Go get a Mazsport turbo and be done with it. You will void your warranty, make your car fail emissions, and drop $10k in the process.

Rotary Inspired

iTrader: (1)

Man, you guys kill me. How many of you have ever turned a wrench on one of your cars?

All I hear on this board is the 8 needs more power, but dont bring the 7 back cuz the 8 is here now.

You can pass emissions w/ a turbo or supercharger on the 8. Probably not the visual for you guys in cali, but its all in tuning.

If you don't think that Mazda can't tune the 8 very quickly and efficently for forced induction you are dumb. The cost doesn't out weigh the gains. Lets face it the majority of the people who drive 8's don't even realize the motor is different. The overall percentage is small who would buy a forced induction 8 versus the cost associated to produce the car.

Mazda would need a new intake mani,lower comp. rotors, 4 port side plates, turbo w/ interal wastegate, intercooller, exhaust mani, and BOV. I dont' care who you get it through that cost money.

And who ever wants to discuss the speed6 I can do that too as I own both an 8 and a speed6.

Basically I am saying either do something w/ your car to make more power or move on. Quit bitching about the 13b being underpowered. What they accomplished w/ side ports has only been accoplished w/ bridge ports on a n/a side port motor. I would like to see some of you try to drive one of those on the street. Then we really would hear bitching. It would be something like. Man this thing idles at 1800, lopes, only gets 10mpg, and has no power until 6K.

There is my rant. At least the 7 guys do something instead of whining.

sosonic

Mazda/Mazdaspeed should have done what Mazsport did. People would have paid for a Mazdaspeed 8 that cost $10k more.

People want more power and a Mazda warranty with it. An MS 8 would have done nothing but boost sales and cut complaints about the RX-8 being underpowered.

peloponisios

I saw PanSpeed's 8 putting 298ps all motor (NA I mean), so it is not impossible. Also they shaved off 200kg and with this and that they have an 8 with 300hp NA and 1108 kg.

rotary crazy

mazda cant make a mazdaspeed rx-8, there is no market for it, thats there conclusion, to make a MS8 mazda needs to sell at least 5000 of them, the way sells are going and more or less $10,000 more for the ms8, mazda is going to have a dificult time selling it

Design1stCode2nd

We'll get a newer design, electric assist SC with more HP and better mileage, just wait for the next version.

You are not going to get a 300+ hp RX8 from Mazda. Move on to the G37.

Lets see what Tokyo has for us this year.

Out of all car makers Mazda, BMW and Audi have the best lineups and Mazda is the only one I can afford so Go Mazda, keep on making great cars.

8rotor8

iTrader: (2)

Lol! Me Too!

SmokeyTheBalrog

This is a mis-conception. Mazda would also need to modify the oil system, the engine cooling system, the transmission, and LSD. Otherwise there would probably be to many break downs and Mazda would loose money.

So the price hike would be well over $10k maybe over $15K. You going to buy a $40,000 Rx-8? I didn't think so, nor would anyone else. (Well, ok there might be a few people, but not enough to cover costs.)

'87 Turbo II

Ok just to add my 2 cents for how much it'd add for them to "engineer a Renesis turbo". Don't forget that the 13B hasn't changed TOO much in overall structure except for exhaust ports. they already have the turbo parts from the Turbo Rx-7 models. all they'd have to do is add the side exaust port and redo the ECU, maybe a little bit of fuel injector work. Overall cost addition would probably be 3 to 5 thousand and give a 20 to 60 horsepower increase depending on how insane Mazda wants to go.

rotary crazy

mazda allready experimented with FI rx-8's and nothing came out of it, 2 reasons, market and emisions.

kartweb

What Mazda recognized with the Renesis is they have to extract more power from combustion or the rotary will be dead in the future. Higher gas prices have forced that to be the only salvation.

Two possible solution paths;

1) Find the solution to the detonation issue. The shape of the combustion chamber of a rotary just doesn't support efficient combustion and energy extraction. The reason EGT's are high is due to late firing allowing the heat to run out the pipe rather then translated to mechanical energy.

2) Add a secondary energy regeneration device downstream of the exhaust. Ideally something like a variable vane turbine on the front side of the motor. At a steady state 70 MPH level road cruise 8-9 HP could be recovered from a turbine - which would bump gas mileage to an honest 30 MPG.

As far as more power it would simply take more cubes. More cubes would devour more fuel.

I think ethanol will slowly become more prevalent. Much higher octane it's a natural for a rotary - except the consumption rate increases having less BTU's per gallon.

I would also speculate that the market trends for more power with under $50K sports cars will tend to be sacrificed for better mileage - especially as the CAFE fuel economy requirements tighten up on new cars.

It is what it is. Lets hope Mazda figures out a great solution before 2010.

stealth-x8

I feel there is a market for it if you think about it 35k for the evo or subie why not the rx8 with better hp and tq...as far as needing 5k plus sales..i think everyone in this community will be thinking of a way to get rid of their current 8 to get an ms8 if offered...and if they can push the ms3 and be profitable then its almost certain that an ms8 would have been a contenter in the market....mazda just needs to od it right the first time and pay attention to forums such as this rather than someone that drives a skyline to work everyday..j/k

SmokeyTheBalrog

I believe that a MS8 would have to be more than a $10,000 USD price hike. $10,000 is just not enough money to make all the needed modifications to the car.

Needed upgrades:
1. FI either a SC or TC
2. Stronger transmission
3. Stronger LSD
4. Stronger clutch
5. Also, reinforce any other portions of the drive line that are likely to break with additional power.
6. If it truly wants to be a MS8 it also has to have an upgraded suspension.

Good luck fitting half that in a $10K budget. Your MazdaSpeed 8 would probably cost over $40,000 and over $45,000 with options. You still going to rush out and sell your 8? I didn't think so.

Old Rotor

Look at the changes in the generations of RX-7. We are due for a smaller, lighter, more HP, RX-8. This will solve alot of the problems. This is what Mazda does best.

rotary crazy

Mazda did theyr studies and this where there conclusion, not mine

rotary crazy

You cant take the base price of a finish complete rx-8 to star from, they are not going to make a car take out all the parts and throw them away, the real cost of the starting point only mazda knows, they only have to use the interior and the chasis, and electrical parts, lets say that cost 10,000 to 13,000 then put 20,000 to 23,000 more for FI engine better trans and the rest of the components, and this is including mazda margin of benefit

the based price for a MS8 would be +/- $35,000 plus options

robrecht

Too funny ... those zany insane power freaks at Mazda!

SmokeyTheBalrog

You also have to account for a new production line(if there is space to do that), or an extension of the current production line not to mention design and testing costs. You also have to include an increased profit margin due to increased cost of warranty work due to decreased reliability. (That also covers people over boosting their stock setup)

rotary crazy

nope, by the time mazda starts selling a MS8 they can only produce that version

but we now that is not going to happeng