C&Ds 10 best list (spoilers inside)
11-30-2003, 04:40 PM
#26
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Originally posted by JSTARS PILOT
My opinion is that the RX8 is much more desireble in terms of style and interior setup. The WRX is faster...big deal. I bet the RX can do something in the performance area better. Even if it cant, it doesn't look like a box. I equate the WRX to a Volvo in terms of style. Furthermore, I assume no one on this site is really looking for a truly powerful car or they would get something with real muscle. Bottom line is that the RX8 is sporty, great looking, and brand new in terms of technology design etc. It can only get better with the next couple of years. However, I bet it too will drop of the list after it has its initial peak. But, it is a great car, and to some folks the WRX is too...just not me. The only car that will truly stay on the list forever or get back on after falling off time and time again is the Corvette. By the way the EVO is just as box like. I think I was drawing exact pictures of those cars with my set of crayons in the 3rd grade.
My opinion is that the RX8 is much more desireble in terms of style and interior setup. The WRX is faster...big deal. I bet the RX can do something in the performance area better. Even if it cant, it doesn't look like a box. I equate the WRX to a Volvo in terms of style. Furthermore, I assume no one on this site is really looking for a truly powerful car or they would get something with real muscle. Bottom line is that the RX8 is sporty, great looking, and brand new in terms of technology design etc. It can only get better with the next couple of years. However, I bet it too will drop of the list after it has its initial peak. But, it is a great car, and to some folks the WRX is too...just not me. The only car that will truly stay on the list forever or get back on after falling off time and time again is the Corvette. By the way the EVO is just as box like. I think I was drawing exact pictures of those cars with my set of crayons in the 3rd grade.
Looks are such a tough thing to argue, I didn't like the Camaros looks along with a lot of other people. But I wouldn't use my personal opinion to argue against it. And I think you can add the Accord to most likely never falling off that list, and at least getting back on it if it ever does.
11-30-2003, 06:34 PM
#27
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Alpha Order, not ranking
Originally posted by druck
Its not very impressive that the RX8 is 4 places below the Focus shopping trolley, and just one place above the battery hybrid Pruis milkfloat. What are those two doing in a list of anything?
Its not very impressive that the RX8 is 4 places below the Focus shopping trolley, and just one place above the battery hybrid Pruis milkfloat. What are those two doing in a list of anything?
11-30-2003, 07:14 PM
#28
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Re: Alpha Order, not ranking
Originally posted by TybeeRX-8
Take a close look. It's in alpha order, not a ranking among the list. I have the magazine and that's a fact!:D
Take a close look. It's in alpha order, not a ranking among the list. I have the magazine and that's a fact!:D
11-30-2003, 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by eccles
I don't get why people feel the need to bait Ike. He started this thread with "'grats guys", and his only riposte to the baiting has been to point out that although the WRX has dropped out this year, it has been in for the previous three years, yet folks still seem to feel the need to yank his chain.
Can't we all just get along?
I don't get why people feel the need to bait Ike. He started this thread with "'grats guys", and his only riposte to the baiting has been to point out that although the WRX has dropped out this year, it has been in for the previous three years, yet folks still seem to feel the need to yank his chain.
Can't we all just get along?
12-01-2003, 12:11 AM
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EVERY SINGLE ROTARY CAR, THAT MAZDA HAS MADE WAS ON CAR AND DRIVER BEST LIST.
FC BEING 4 YEARS
FD BEING 3 YEARS 93,94,95
FE(RX-8) BEING 04... and so ON... the legend continues.
FC BEING 4 YEARS
FD BEING 3 YEARS 93,94,95
FE(RX-8) BEING 04... and so ON... the legend continues.
12-01-2003, 10:36 AM
#32
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Originally posted by eccles
The R-100, RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, RX-5, RE-PU and Cosmo all made C&D's 10 Best?
The R-100, RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, RX-5, RE-PU and Cosmo all made C&D's 10 Best?
How about "Every single rotary car in production since C+D started the 10 Best lists" has made the 10 Best list? :D (C+D's 10 Best Cars list was only started around 1983)
Regards,
Gordon
12-01-2003, 01:01 PM
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Performance Car of the year '03
The more interesting ranking actually comes from the CAR magazine from UK, which they rank the Best Performance Car of '03. RX-8 was in the final round of 11 cars among some 40 cars in the running for this year's title. From the best of my memory, the finalalists are
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
Mitsubshi EVO VIII FQ300
Farrari 550
Porsche GT3
BMW Z4
BMW M3 CSL
Bentley GT
Mini Cooper S Works
Nissan 350Z
The other two are VW Golf and Jaguar (forget which models)
In case you're wondering, the winner for the '03 title goes to Vauxhall VX220 Turbo.
Cheers,
Pete
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
Mitsubshi EVO VIII FQ300
Farrari 550
Porsche GT3
BMW Z4
BMW M3 CSL
Bentley GT
Mini Cooper S Works
Nissan 350Z
The other two are VW Golf and Jaguar (forget which models)
In case you're wondering, the winner for the '03 title goes to Vauxhall VX220 Turbo.
Cheers,
Pete
12-01-2003, 01:15 PM
#35
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Re: Performance Car of the year '03
Originally posted by pete325is
In case you're wondering, the winner for the '03 title goes to Vauxhall VX220 Turbo.
In case you're wondering, the winner for the '03 title goes to Vauxhall VX220 Turbo.
I assume it goes fast being a turbo, but is it a sports car or simply a powerful sedan?
12-01-2003, 01:25 PM
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Re: Re: Performance Car of the year '03
Originally posted by Spin9k
Excuse my ignorance with your cars in the UK, but what is a "Vauxhall", who makes it, and why did it win?
I assume it goes fast being a turbo, but is it a sports car or simply a powerful sedan?
Excuse my ignorance with your cars in the UK, but what is a "Vauxhall", who makes it, and why did it win?
I assume it goes fast being a turbo, but is it a sports car or simply a powerful sedan?
12-01-2003, 01:37 PM
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First off, I'm not from UK. I'm just another car nut like most guys in here do. From my understanding, the Vauxhall VX220 is a GM product under the european Opel arm. To be precise, its a joint product of Open/Vauxhall and the Lotus. It uses the Lotus Elise body frame so its about the same size and look as the Lotus. I'm not quite sure who made the engine, probably from the GM/Opel parts bin. If you want to know more about the car, go to
http://www.vx220london.com/
And I do apologize for some mistakes I made on my previous post regarding the finalists. Go to the following links for an excerpt of the Performance Car of the Year 2003.
http://buypower.vauxhall.co.uk/features/vx220.jhtml
Cheers,
Pete
http://www.vx220london.com/
And I do apologize for some mistakes I made on my previous post regarding the finalists. Go to the following links for an excerpt of the Performance Car of the Year 2003.
http://buypower.vauxhall.co.uk/features/vx220.jhtml
Cheers,
Pete
12-01-2003, 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by pete325is
>Its a re-badged Lotus Elise.
I don't think it simply use a turbo version of the old Rover engine as found in the european Elise.
>Its a re-badged Lotus Elise.
I don't think it simply use a turbo version of the old Rover engine as found in the european Elise.
http://www.monorep.co.uk/vauxhall/sales/vx220.htm
Engine and performance
The heart, quite literally, of the VX220 Turbo is the familiar transverse two-litre, sixteen valve, turbocharged engine being used to good effect in the new Astra GSi. In the VX220 Turbo however, it is installed just in front of the rear axle.
Engine and performance
The heart, quite literally, of the VX220 Turbo is the familiar transverse two-litre, sixteen valve, turbocharged engine being used to good effect in the new Astra GSi. In the VX220 Turbo however, it is installed just in front of the rear axle.
I believe the engine code is Z20SE (2.0 litres) & Z22SE (2.2 litres)
Last edited by RX8-TX; 12-01-2003 at 01:56 PM.
12-01-2003, 01:55 PM
#41
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The Vauxhall VX220 is the exact same car as the Opel Speedster; GM of Europe markets the same cars as Vauxhalls in the UK and Opels in Ireland and continental Europe.
The VX220/Speedster does use the 2.2 GM Ecotec engine, the Turbo version of the VX220 is a turbo version of the Ecotec. The car is largely based on the Lotus Elise, and is built for GM by Lotus in the same assembly facility as the Elise. The body is quite different, and the suspension/handling tuning is a bit different as well.
Regards,
Gordon
The VX220/Speedster does use the 2.2 GM Ecotec engine, the Turbo version of the VX220 is a turbo version of the Ecotec. The car is largely based on the Lotus Elise, and is built for GM by Lotus in the same assembly facility as the Elise. The body is quite different, and the suspension/handling tuning is a bit different as well.
Regards,
Gordon
12-01-2003, 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by druck
Its not very impressive that the RX8 is 4 places below the Focus shopping trolley, and just one place above the battery hybrid Pruis milkfloat. What are those two doing in a list of anything?
Its not very impressive that the RX8 is 4 places below the Focus shopping trolley, and just one place above the battery hybrid Pruis milkfloat. What are those two doing in a list of anything?
As for the Prius, I can see it's making the 10Best because it's technological advances without (so far) too many performance compromises...
Perhaps the Focus is ranked as a 10Best because of it's success overseas?
12-01-2003, 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Gord96BRG
The Vauxhall VX220 is the exact same car as the Opel Speedster; GM of Europe markets the same cars as Vauxhalls in the UK and Opels in Ireland and continental Europe.
The VX220/Speedster does use the 2.2 GM Ecotec engine, the Turbo version of the VX220 is a turbo version of the Ecotec. The car is largely based on the Lotus Elise, and is built for GM by Lotus in the same assembly facility as the Elise. The body is quite different, and the suspension/handling tuning is a bit different as well.
The Vauxhall VX220 is the exact same car as the Opel Speedster; GM of Europe markets the same cars as Vauxhalls in the UK and Opels in Ireland and continental Europe.
The VX220/Speedster does use the 2.2 GM Ecotec engine, the Turbo version of the VX220 is a turbo version of the Ecotec. The car is largely based on the Lotus Elise, and is built for GM by Lotus in the same assembly facility as the Elise. The body is quite different, and the suspension/handling tuning is a bit different as well.
However they completely ruined all this effort in the UK advertising campaigne. They took Griff Reece Jones (a middle aged UK comiedian well past his prime) who had been doing ads for the other models as a ginger beared mind numbing boring scientist (which suited their other models completely), and had him standing next to the VX220 dressed only in his y-front umderpants. It didn't matter how good the car was, once you had that image in your mind, nothing on earth would get you to buy it.
Cheers
---Dave
12-01-2003, 04:18 PM
#44
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Originally posted by druck
had him standing next to the VX220 dressed only in his y-front umderpants. It didn't matter how good the car was, once you had that image in your mind, nothing on earth would get you to buy it.
had him standing next to the VX220 dressed only in his y-front umderpants. It didn't matter how good the car was, once you had that image in your mind, nothing on earth would get you to buy it.
Regards,
Gordon
12-01-2003, 04:26 PM
#45
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Originally posted by med_mx6
While I'm glad to see the RX8 on the list, I have to say I view these type of lists "with a grain of salt" (if you will). Didn't the Focus have several recalls and other build-quality issues? Yet, it still ranked as a 10Best? Anybody get the feeling Ford "bought" its way onto the list? Granted though that C&D folks do test drive a ton of cars, so they should be somewhat qualified to judge the value of a car, but when a big company drops tons o' $$ on the press junkets and stuff, can the objectivity of a magazine really exist? Why bite the hand that feeds you?
As for the Prius, I can see it's making the 10Best because it's technological advances without (so far) too many performance compromises...
Perhaps the Focus is ranked as a 10Best because of it's success overseas?
While I'm glad to see the RX8 on the list, I have to say I view these type of lists "with a grain of salt" (if you will). Didn't the Focus have several recalls and other build-quality issues? Yet, it still ranked as a 10Best? Anybody get the feeling Ford "bought" its way onto the list? Granted though that C&D folks do test drive a ton of cars, so they should be somewhat qualified to judge the value of a car, but when a big company drops tons o' $$ on the press junkets and stuff, can the objectivity of a magazine really exist? Why bite the hand that feeds you?
As for the Prius, I can see it's making the 10Best because it's technological advances without (so far) too many performance compromises...
Perhaps the Focus is ranked as a 10Best because of it's success overseas?
12-01-2003, 04:38 PM
#46
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Originally posted by TybeeRX-8
The Focus did have a few problems, but the BMW X5 had more recalls for defects! So, that shouldn't be a factor unless you are a CU reader. The Focus has long been considered one of the best handling cars available in this country for the buck...by most of the automotive mag folks, not just C&D. And that has to do with the fact that its european handling wasn't compromised with its introduction here. But, I suppose you may have a point...guess Corvette bought their way in too! Poor ole Subie ( a partner with GM) didn't have the bucks. The list is the list! The reasons given for inclusion of the RX-8 were on point...handling, not straight line acceleration.
The Focus did have a few problems, but the BMW X5 had more recalls for defects! So, that shouldn't be a factor unless you are a CU reader. The Focus has long been considered one of the best handling cars available in this country for the buck...by most of the automotive mag folks, not just C&D. And that has to do with the fact that its european handling wasn't compromised with its introduction here. But, I suppose you may have a point...guess Corvette bought their way in too! Poor ole Subie ( a partner with GM) didn't have the bucks. The list is the list! The reasons given for inclusion of the RX-8 were on point...handling, not straight line acceleration.
12-01-2003, 09:35 PM
#48
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350Z... i read in automobile mag newest issue (with a evo on the front)... 25,414 mile update said "the weight, the bulk starting to feel opressive". i think 350Z looks like a potato... some like potato... i do .. sometimes ...
12-01-2003, 09:58 PM
#49
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Originally posted by rx-7~rx-8
350Z... i read in automobile mag newest issue (with a evo on the front)... 25,414 mile update said "the weight, the bulk starting to feel opressive". i think 350Z looks like a potato... some like potato... i do .. sometimes ...
350Z... i read in automobile mag newest issue (with a evo on the front)... 25,414 mile update said "the weight, the bulk starting to feel opressive". i think 350Z looks like a potato... some like potato... i do .. sometimes ...
